On the punisher, Afghanistan and paramilitaries

[madd0ct0r]

https://popula.com/2019/02/24/about-face/

Webcomic.

I dont want to spoil it so go look first.




The author draws a line from childhood military fantasies of gi joe to modern childish fantasies of uncontrolled violence against the other.

The punisher's attitude, skull icon and lack of nuance (all is black and white) are identified as attractive to troops in a forever war and then in fascist groups once home.

There is shame and defensive glory for this unpopular war, and it sets vets apart and it lures wannnabe tough guys into the groups. Childish dressup and roleplay again.

I will note russia had same experience in Afghanistan and troop interaction led shift of home culture.

[Gandalf]

Great read.

Interestingly, Australia recently banned use of Punisher and similar iconography for Australian servicepeople.

[Agent Fisher]

Ok, it's an interesting webcomic/article and it does raise interesting points. But some of it, I mean, come on. The military simplifying towards a single uniform that is used for office work and in the field? Oh no, foreverwar! Or maybe it could be trying to build morale so the lowly private office clerk can feel like 'hey, i'm actually contributing to assist the guys who are the ones holding the rifle out in the field'.

The shit about trucks? 'militarized grille height design'? The fuck does that mean? The special forces community wanting a pick up style truck that can be help them blend into local areas? Oh god, how terrifying that they'd want a truck that can blend into the local traffic flow of some third world conflict area. Cause when you're assisting local forces with training, maybe you don't want a giant 'US Military SHOOT ME' sign as a vehicle?

I'm not trying to say there hasn't be an overfetishism of the Punisher Skull and it's prevelance in law enforcement and military, along with it's adoption by wanna be tough guys and right wing fringe groups and fascist elements, but some of that article is just alarmist bullshit.

[Gandalf]

Ok, it's an interesting webcomic/article and it does raise interesting points. But some of it, I mean, come on. The military simplifying towards a single uniform that is used for office work and in the field? Oh no, foreverwar! Or maybe it could be trying to build morale so the lowly private office clerk can feel like 'hey, i'm actually contributing to assist the guys who are the ones holding the rifle out in the field'.

They didn't know that before?

[Mr Bean]

Listen let me be blunt on the uniform thing this comic is dead wrong on that, if it's one thing the post US Military is famous for it's changing the uniforms every six years or so because a new set of Senators want the kickbacks to go to a different set of company. The Army has green's, whites and the various camo patterns, the airforce has "only" five uniforms and they are planning on getting new ones (I assume the old ones are not as trendy on the polo grounds anymore) and the Navy... oh boy the Navy

Lets see, service dress blue and whites, the women uniform versions of both, crackerjacks and dixie cups plus full dress for one off positions (Add gunbelt and white piping) add in summer whites plus the working uniforms, coveralls for underway, can't forget the blue camo (Our militant uniform) NWU's I/II/IIIs jumpsuits for the pilots, the rainbow skittles of the flight crews the special dress uniforms for Constitution service.

And oh yes I'm just listening the enlisted E-6 and below uniforms because otherwise I'd be listing the damn Dinner Dress uniforms or the nine flavors of Khaki that chiefs get.

Trust me the idea of everyone running around camo 24/7 is a movie invention, in field sure camo for all, but state side unless you have a very kind CO your going to be in one of the six flavors of service dress every service has.


Because only COMMUNISTS would wear Coveralls home!
Sorry I'm still salty fifteen years later for having to drop 500$ on a set of uniforms I never wore once except for fit because I never went to a sea command when it was more than 85*F and the Captain was named ended in a R S T L N or E, dang you Captain Brown it's because of you I never got to wear pith helmet except for fun. And I'm only slightly kidding but i was in fact charged for a set of Tropical White Shorts (Standard white+the only shorts that were ever considered a uniform) a uniform so I think years went by without any command authorized to wear them.

[Patroklos]

There is some truth that there was a conscious choice to convert most office jobs not in the direct ceremonial or PR line of fire to working uniforms. I haven’t worn anything else as uniform of the day for at least 10 years. That was only appropriate for my day to day activity for at most five of those. This was for the apparently nefarious reason of maintaining identity and solidarity with the front line in a technologically segregated world where most of the military is comfortably behind a desk or in garrison with little reagular contact with comrades in real danger. This was true during the height of both Iraq and Afghanistan, the vast majority of service members never set foot in either place.

This comic is a little late. The Army just announced a reversion to WWII styled service uniforms and a shift back to service uniform wear generally to in part but the wars behind them.

The comic is a complete departure from reality after the first panel. Typical can’t be them so fuck em whinning with a smothering coating of conspiracy.

[madd0ct0r]

Agent Fisher, Patroklos,

I dont think the comic is suggesting an active conspiracy. I dont think the comic is even interested in the military itself. Some people in the military yes, but because they are white supremacist not because they are soldiers.

I think the comic is about tough guys in civilian life want to play dress up, and the totemising they do of military wear. It is looking at a cultural shift and asking how much of it is gi joe fashion and how much it reflects real attitudes. Is the resultant mindest after a few loops of the social feedback loops putting people likely to be attracted to white supremacists?
No real decisions being made, just the net effect of individual behaviour, just like the economy.