Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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NPR
Congresswomen Denounce Trump Tweets Telling Them To 'Go Back' To Their Home Countries

July 14, 20195:06 PM ET
Bobby Allyn

A group of four minority Democratic congresswomen targeted by President Trump in a series of Sunday morning tweets denounced his racist remarks and accused him of "stoking white nationalism."

Weighing in on friction between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and four liberal Democrats dubbed "the squad," Trump referred to " 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen" in his tweets, saying they should "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came."

"So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run," the president wrote.

Although Trump did not single the lawmakers out by name, four freshmen U.S. representatives known for their progressive views and recent tensions with moderate Democrats viewed the tweets as directed at them: Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.

As members of Congress, all four women are U.S. citizens. All but Omar were born in the United States. Omar is originally from Somalia, from which she fled as a refugee before settling in the U.S.

The quartet of progressive congresswomen shot back at the president.

Ocasio-Cortez, who was born in the Bronx to parents of Puerto Rican descent, said: "You are angry because you can't conceive of an America that includes us."

Pressley, who was born in Ohio and is black, responded: "THIS is what racism looks like."

Omar replied to Trump by accusing him of "stoking white nationalism." And Tlaib said, "I am fighting corruption in OUR country." She added: "Detroit taught me how to fight for the communities you continue to degrade & attack."

Tlaib was born in Detroit to Palestinian parents. In 2018, she and Omar became the first two Muslim women to ever be elected to Congress.

Trump's decision to highlight the simmering tension inside the Democratic caucus appeared to have one clear effect: uniting the party in defense of the four freshman lawmakers.

Pelosi said that with his tweets, Trump "reaffirms [that] his plan to 'Make America Great Again' has always been about making America white again," adding that Trump's "xenophobic comments" were intended to "divide our nation."

Democratic Rep. Ruben Gallego of Arizona, who is Hispanic, said that despite being born in the U.S., he used to hear "go back to Mexico" growing up, an insult that he encountered even as an adult, despite serving in the Marine Corps and winning a seat in Congress.

"To people like Trump I will never be American enough. So if you wonder why I give no inch to these racists, now you know. Nothing will ever satisfy them, all we can do is stop them," Gallego said on Twitter.

For years, Trump pushed conspiracies that President Obama was not born in the U.S., even making the false claim part of his run for president in 2016. Trump finally conceded in September 2016 that Obama was born in the United States.

Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., linked Trump's advocacy of the birther movement to his Sunday comments treating his political opponents as outsiders who do not belong in the United States.

"Trump is now turning the same birtherism he directed at President Obama against women of color serving in Congress," Beyer said. "Everyone should call this what it is: racism."

Several members of the Trump administration who made the rounds on Sunday morning TV programs refused to comment or acknowledge the racist remarks.

Ken Cuccinelli, acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, told CNN's Jake Tapper that he was not sure whom Trump was referring to in the tweets.

"I don't, I don't," Cuccinelli said.

Other Republicans remained silent on the Trump tweets. But Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, who has called for Trump to be impeached and recently quit the Republican Party to become an independent, came to the defense of the four congresswomen.

"To tell these American citizens (most of whom were born here) to 'go back' to the 'crime infested places from which they came' is racist and disgusting," Amash said.

Trump responded to criticism on Sunday, tweeting that it was "So sad to see the Democrats sticking up for people who speak so badly of our Country."

"... Whenever confronted, they call their adversaries, including Nancy Pelosi, 'RACIST,' " he continued. "If the Democrat Party wants to continue to condone such disgraceful behavior, then we look even more forward to seeing you at the ballot box in 2020!"
NPR
'They Are Free To Leave': Trump Accuses Congresswomen Of Hating America

July 15, 201911:03 AM ET
Brian Naylor

President Trump, a day after using racist language in tweets directed at four minority members of Congress, dug in further Monday on Twitter and at a live event at the White House.

"They are free to leave" if they want, Trump said during an impromptu news conference in front of the White House. He also accused the members of Congress of hating America.

Asked if he was concerned that "people saw the tweet as racist and that white nationalist groups are finding common cause with you on that point," Trump replied, "It doesn't concern me because many people agree with me."

Earlier in the day, he said the lawmakers should apologize "to our Country, the people of Israel and even to the Office of the President."

Trump said "the Radical Left Congresswomen" should apologize for "the foul language they have used, and the terrible things they have said. So many people are angry at them & their horrible & disgusting actions!"

In the initial tweet on Sunday, Trump said the congresswomen — Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y.; Ilhan Omar, D-Minn.; Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich.; and Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass. — should "go back" to their countries of origin (Omar was born in Somalia; the other three were all born in the United States).

Ocasio-Cortez described Trump's tweets as "hallmark language of white supremacists."

Omar, whom Trump called out by name on Monday, tweeted, "They are working to silence the voices of the people who see themselves represented in me. I will stay in the ring, fighting for what is right and will never back down in the face of these attacks."

In brief comments to reporters at the White House, Trump denied his tweets were racist. "Not at all," he said.

Democrats have widely criticized the president's Sunday tweets.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has been at odds with the four members of her caucus, came to their defense Sunday. She tweeted that when Trump "tells four American Congresswomen to go back to their countries, he reaffirms his plan to 'Make America Great Again' has always been about making America white again." Pelosi added, "Our diversity is our strength and our unity is our power."

At the White House on Monday, Trump claimed it was Pelosi's remarks that were racist.

On Monday, Pelosi announced that the House will take up a resolution "condemning the President's xenophobic tweets" — a resolution that she said will be sponsored by Democratic lawmakers who were born overseas.

Republicans stayed mostly quiet about Trump's tweets on Sunday, but several weighed in on Monday, critical of Trump's language.

In an interview on Fox & Friends on Monday morning, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Trump should "aim higher. ... They are American citizens. They won an election. Take on their policies." But Graham also said, "We all know that [Ocasio-Cortez] and this crowd are a bunch of communists. They hate Israel. They hate our own country."

Rep. Paul Mitchell, R-Mich., tweeted at Trump, "we must be better than comments like these. I share the political frustrations with some members of the other party, but these comments are beneath leaders."

Another Michigan GOP lawmaker, Rep. Fred Upton, tweeted that he is "appalled by the President's tweets," adding, "There's no excuse." Upton also condemned what he labeled "Inflammatory rhetoric from both sides of the aisle that is used to divide us."

Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., also issued a statement condemning the tweets.

"President Trump was wrong to suggest that four left-wing congresswomen should go back to where they came from. Three of the four were born in America and the citizenship of all four is as valid as mine," he said. "I couldn't disagree more with these congresswomen's views on immigration, socialism, national security, and virtually every policy issue. But they are entitled to their opinions, however misguided they may be. We should defeat their ideas on the merits, not on the basis of their ancestry."

One of the strongest reactions among Republicans came from Rep. Will Hurd of Texas, who is the only African American Republican in the House. Hurd told CNN that the president's tweets were "racist and xenophobic" and said it was "behavior that's unbecoming of the leader of the free world. He should be talking about things that unite us, not divide us."

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski tweeted, "There is no excuse for the president's spiteful comments –they were absolutely unacceptable and this needs to stop."

And Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., the Senate's only African American Republican, charged that the Democratic Party was "embroiled in racial controversy," while also condemning the president's "racially offensive language."

Trump, who in a separate tweet Sunday claimed 94% support from Republican Party members, seemed to welcome the storm he set off, saying in another tweet that it was "sad" to see Democrats "sticking up for people who speak so badly of our Country and who, in addition, hate Israel with a true and unbridled passion."

The Anti-Defamation League, however, had a different view. In a statement, ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt said:
"While ADL has publicly disagreed with these congresswomen on some issues, the president is echoing the racist talking points of white nationalists and cynically using the Jewish people and the state of Israel as a shield to double down on his remarks. Politicizing the widespread, bipartisan support for Israel and throwing around accusations of anti-Semitism is damaging to the security of Israel and the Jewish community. He should lead by example, stop politicizing these issues and stop smearing members of Congress."
This was precipitated, as the first article notes, by a public disagreement between the four Representatives in question and Speaker Pelosi.

I think Trump sees this as a Xanatos gambit, or would if he were familiar with the term. By publicly siding with the Speaker, he creates problems for the Democrats no matter what happens; if the Speaker persists in trying to sideline the junior members' agenda she seems to be siding with the President, thus angering her own base. If she closes ranks (which she has done), she sacrifices her own position and allows Trump to paint the Democrats as siding with their far left wing (which he has done). Either result is red meat for his base. He's used his endorsement as a poison pill before, so we know he knows how to do it and how effective it is.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Weird TVTropes terms aside, this is the kind of behaviour that got him in to office, so why do people act shocked when he keeps it up?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Racist man does racism, news at 11.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Vendetta wrote: 2019-07-15 05:54pm Racist man does racism, news at 11.
And there's the danger. That we become numb to it, see it as no big deal, as just "Trump being Trump"... and that we ultimately learn to accept it.

And this is pretty blatant even by his standards. This isn't a dog whistle. This is shouting white supremacist rhetoric through a megaphone. He told four female minority Congresswomen to "go back" to their countries, which he derided as inferior, despite the fact the fact that three of them were actually born in the US and all four are (obviously, since they're in Congress) US citizens.

At his press conference today, he doubled down by saying that he wasn't concerned that white nationalists supported him, and calling the four Congresswomen communists who hate America.

He's also trying to drive a wedge between the progressives and Pelosi, but for now it seems to have backfired, uniting Democrats against him. Apparently he upped the ante today with one of his most ludicrous lies yet- after Pelosi responded to his initial comments by saying that "Make American Great Again" meant "make American white again", he claimed that Pelosi had said "make American white again" and was therefore racist. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Better be careful there, Donald. You keep putting words like that in Pelosi's mouth, and your base might start voting for her. :lol:
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Vendetta wrote: 2019-07-15 05:54pm Racist man does racism, news at 11.
I don't say this every day, but essentially what Rom said. This is a major escalation, even for him.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Gandalf »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-07-15 09:51pm
Vendetta wrote: 2019-07-15 05:54pm Racist man does racism, news at 11.
I don't say this every day, but essentially what Rom said. This is a major escalation, even for him.
What makes it a major escalation? What he said or the people to whom he said it?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 09:54pm
Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-07-15 09:51pm
Vendetta wrote: 2019-07-15 05:54pm Racist man does racism, news at 11.
I don't say this every day, but essentially what Rom said. This is a major escalation, even for him.
What makes it a major escalation? What he said or the people to whom he said it?
Yeah, he's said shit (and implemented policy) this racist before, although this is one of the more blatant examples even for him.

Nonetheless, its worth noting, because we should not become numb to or accepting of this shit. If we do, he's won.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 09:54pm
Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-07-15 09:51pmI don't say this every day, but essentially what Rom said. This is a major escalation, even for him.
What makes it a major escalation? What he said or the people to whom he said it?
Well, the people to whom he said it was the whole damn world via Twitter, but that aside, the fact that he's attempting to delegitimize members of Congress and on the bargain break up the Democratic caucus. Obviously he's a racist bastard whose administration is saying and doing awful things about and to immigrants (so long as they are brown), but here he's doing it not only to members of Congress, but people who he knows for a fact to be citizens, three of the four native born. It's an escalation from something he could fig leaf as a law enforcement action (as laughable as that is in the face of the blatant unnecessary cruelty) to openly saying that known citizens in his political opposition should leave the country.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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Like his birtherism, or the attacks on Judge Curiel?

Yeah, it's a bit different, but major escalation is overselling it.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 10:24pm Like his birtherism, or the attacks on Judge Curiel?

Yeah, it's a bit different, but major escalation is overselling it.
Better than trying to undersell it, or treat it as business as usual. Even if, under Trump, its exactly that.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 10:40pmBetter than trying to undersell it, or treat it as business as usual. Even if, under Trump, its exactly that.
So... lies for expediency?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 10:59pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 10:40pmBetter than trying to undersell it, or treat it as business as usual. Even if, under Trump, its exactly that.
So... lies for expediency?
No, the truth is bad enough. But I'd rather that people overrate the danger of something like this, than underrate it.

I'd ask why you seem hell-bent on downplaying Trump's actions, but I'm pretty sure I know why. Because America is bad and its always been just as bad and always will be, and so we shouldn't care about Trump because he's no different than anyone else. :roll:

May the thought that nothing really changed when Trump was elected bring you comfort while children are locked in concentration camps.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Gandalf »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 11:05pm
Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 10:59pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 10:40pmBetter than trying to undersell it, or treat it as business as usual. Even if, under Trump, its exactly that.
So... lies for expediency?
No, the truth is bad enough. But I'd rather that people overrate the danger of something like this, than underrate it.
It also makes it easy to dismiss things as abberations. Establishing things as "business as usual" allows you to fight against a "new normal" as opposed to something that can be dismissed as a one off.
I'd ask why you seem hell-bent on downplaying Trump's actions, but I'm pretty sure I know why. Because America is bad and its always been just as bad and always will be, and so we shouldn't care about Trump because he's no different than anyone else. :roll:

May the thought that nothing really changed when Trump was elected bring you comfort while children are locked in concentration camps.
As appeals to motive go, this isn't even a good one. Try harder.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm just sick of people trying to pretend Trump is nothing different to the American norm. There were horrible things before Trump, and there will be horrible things after him, and no he didn't emerge in a vacuum. But he does mark a definitive step in the wrong direction, of openly legitimizing (or, rather, re-legitimizing) the worst aspects of Western civilizations, and that does need to be recognized.

Getting rid of Trump won't be the end of the fight, but it is a necessary first step upon which any other progress depends, so that's where I focus my efforts right now. When he's gone, I'll focus on the next fight.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

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What is "the American norm?"
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Rogue 9 »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 10:24pm Like his birtherism, or the attacks on Judge Curiel?

Yeah, it's a bit different, but major escalation is overselling it.
His birtherism heretofore didn't occur during his presidency. He attacked Judge Curiel's impartiality on the basis of race, but he didn't tell him to go back where he came from (which is East Chicago, IN). He's not dog whistling anymore.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Gandalf »

Wait, when did "since becoming POTUS" become the line? Why isn't the horrific rhetoric that got him there relevant?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

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- George Carlin
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-07-15 11:48pm
Gandalf wrote: 2019-07-15 10:24pm Like his birtherism, or the attacks on Judge Curiel?

Yeah, it's a bit different, but major escalation is overselling it.
His birtherism heretofore didn't occur during his presidency. He attacked Judge Curiel's impartiality on the basis of race, but he didn't tell him to go back where he came from (which is East Chicago, IN). He's not dog whistling anymore.
Gandalf's not wrong here. He's wrong if he thinks this shouldn't be a big deal, but he's not wrong that Trump has pulled shit like this before.

But if this gets the point through a few more voters' skulls, then at least some small good will have come of it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by LaCroix »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 11:30pm I'm just sick of people trying to pretend Trump is nothing different to the American norm. There were horrible things before Trump, and there will be horrible things after him, and no he didn't emerge in a vacuum. But he does mark a definitive step in the wrong direction, of openly legitimizing (or, rather, re-legitimizing) the worst aspects of Western civilizations, and that does need to be recognized.

Getting rid of Trump won't be the end of the fight, but it is a necessary first step upon which any other progress depends, so that's where I focus my efforts right now. When he's gone, I'll focus on the next fight.
Honestly, you guys where hovering near that "thin red line" for decades, already, and occasionally shuffled closer or further from it.

Mass incarceration of blacks/hispanics for the slightest reason orr as a political ploy - goes back forever.
Massive attempts at voter disenfranchising - goes back forever.
Racist policies and behavior - goes back forever.
'Ghettos' for certain races - goes back forever.
Less money spent on non-white interests - goes back forever.

It's just Trump who finally crossed over that line, but it's not as if 90% of the republican politicians weren't continously hopping across it when they thought they could get away with it, and their constituents were usually cheering them for it. Trump just doesn't care for moral norms, so he refuses to get shamed back to the other side, knowing that he has full backing of his voters who were waiting for decades for a politician to finally "tell it as it is".
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

LaCroix wrote: 2019-07-16 07:18am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-15 11:30pm I'm just sick of people trying to pretend Trump is nothing different to the American norm. There were horrible things before Trump, and there will be horrible things after him, and no he didn't emerge in a vacuum. But he does mark a definitive step in the wrong direction, of openly legitimizing (or, rather, re-legitimizing) the worst aspects of Western civilizations, and that does need to be recognized.

Getting rid of Trump won't be the end of the fight, but it is a necessary first step upon which any other progress depends, so that's where I focus my efforts right now. When he's gone, I'll focus on the next fight.
Honestly, you guys where hovering near that "thin red line" for decades, already, and occasionally shuffled closer or further from it.

Mass incarceration of blacks/hispanics for the slightest reason orr as a political ploy - goes back forever.
Massive attempts at voter disenfranchising - goes back forever.
Racist policies and behavior - goes back forever.
'Ghettos' for certain races - goes back forever.
Less money spent on non-white interests - goes back forever.

It's just Trump who finally crossed over that line, but it's not as if 90% of the republican politicians weren't continously hopping across it when they thought they could get away with it, and their constituents were usually cheering them for it. Trump just doesn't care for moral norms, so he refuses to get shamed back to the other side, knowing that he has full backing of his voters who were waiting for decades for a politician to finally "tell it as it is".
Exactly.

Trump made it okay to not only do this stuff, but to embrace it, enthusiastically, publicly. He took the worst in America, hit the gas peddle, and cut the brake lines. That's what's changed.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Straha »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-16 07:26am Trump made it okay to not only do this stuff, but to embrace it, enthusiastically, publicly. He took the worst in America, hit the gas peddle, and cut the brake lines. That's what's changed.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote: Nineteenth century democracy needs no more complete vindication for its existence than the fact that it has kept for the white race the best portions of the new world’s surface, temperate America and Australia. Had these regions been under aristocratic governments, Chinese immigration would have been encouraged precisely as the slave trade is encouraged of necessity by any slave-holding oligarchy, and the result would in a few generations have been even more fatal to the white race; but the democracy, with the clear instinct of race selfishness, saw the race foe, and kept out the dangerous alien. The presence of the negro in our Southern States is a legacy from the time when we were ruled by a trans-oceanic aristocracy. The whole civilization of the future owes a debt of gratitude greater than can be expressed in words to that democratic policy which has kept the temperate zones of the new and the newest worlds a heritage for the white people.

As for the industrial competition, the Chinaman and the Hindoo may drive certain kinds of white traders from the tropics; but more than this they cannot do. They can never change the status of the white laborer in his own home, for the latter can always protect himself, and as soon as he is seriously menaced, always will protect himself, by protective tariffs and stringent immigration laws.
George Wallace, 1963 Inauguration Speech wrote:Today I have stood, where once Jefferson Davis stood, and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate then that from this Cradle of the Confederacy, this very Heart of the Great Anglo-Saxon Southland, that today we sound the drum for freedom as have our generations of forebears before us done, time and time again through history. Let us rise to the call of freedom- loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clanks its chains upon the South. In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and I say segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.
The De Facto Motto of the Indian Boarding School System wrote:Kill the Indian. Save the Man


The entire basis from the US from its founding until today can be tied to two foundational genocides: The ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from their land and confinement to the reservation system (Something that's still going on, and was the cited inspiration of concentration camps around the world throughout the 19th and 20th century.) and the creation of a forced cheap labour through African chattel slavery and explicit segregation. At no point has the U.S. ever tried to undo the damage done with either of these issues, always insisting that the genocidal status quo can be excused because the events are 'historical' and 'past us.' As if the reservation doesn't continue to exist or as if the dispossession of the descendants of African slaves could ever be overcome by waving a magic wand and declaring that they were 'free' now, without access to material wealth or the undoing of the ideology of white supremacy (without which the United States cannot exist as a concept.) To put it simply: As long as the US sits on stolen land and uses the winnings of uncompensated forced labor it will always be inextricably tied to, as you so eloquently put it, 'this stuff.'


Trump isn't new to this. His rhetoric is historically tame in this regard. Frankly, he's arguably less racist than the majority of American presidents. The only thing that's changed is that the logic of the US having to justify itself and global capitalism to the world in contradistinction to an alternative world order has disappeared. There's no reason not to be explicit about what the purpose of the US Government is, has been, and what so many of its citizens want it to be.
'After 9/11, it was "You're with us or your with the terrorists." Now its "You're with Straha or you support racism."' ' - The Romulan Republic

'You're a bully putting on an air of civility while saying that everything western and/or capitalistic must be bad, and a lot of other posters (loomer, Stas Bush, Gandalf) are also going along with it for their own personal reasons (Stas in particular is looking through rose colored glasses)' - Darth Yan
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Vendetta »

Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-07-15 09:51pm
Vendetta wrote: 2019-07-15 05:54pm Racist man does racism, news at 11.
I don't say this every day, but essentially what Rom said. This is a major escalation, even for him.
Barely.

The news part of this is not that the President of the United States is a fat orange racist, the news part is looking at who won't say so.

The fact that the Republican party is either defensive of or silent about Trump being a fat orange racist makes it evident that what he's saying about non-white members of the House is a position endorsed or actively shared by his party.

Trump is not an anomaly in the Republican party any more, he's what they are.

The next Republican presidential candidate in 2024 won't be different from Trump, and even the people who have filters and won't say what he says believe what he believes. He's an expression of their mainstream belief about non-white Americans.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Straha wrote: 2019-07-16 10:53am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-07-16 07:26am Trump made it okay to not only do this stuff, but to embrace it, enthusiastically, publicly. He took the worst in America, hit the gas peddle, and cut the brake lines. That's what's changed.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote: Nineteenth century democracy needs no more complete vindication for its existence than the fact that it has kept for the white race the best portions of the new world’s surface, temperate America and Australia. Had these regions been under aristocratic governments, Chinese immigration would have been encouraged precisely as the slave trade is encouraged of necessity by any slave-holding oligarchy, and the result would in a few generations have been even more fatal to the white race; but the democracy, with the clear instinct of race selfishness, saw the race foe, and kept out the dangerous alien. The presence of the negro in our Southern States is a legacy from the time when we were ruled by a trans-oceanic aristocracy. The whole civilization of the future owes a debt of gratitude greater than can be expressed in words to that democratic policy which has kept the temperate zones of the new and the newest worlds a heritage for the white people.

As for the industrial competition, the Chinaman and the Hindoo may drive certain kinds of white traders from the tropics; but more than this they cannot do. They can never change the status of the white laborer in his own home, for the latter can always protect himself, and as soon as he is seriously menaced, always will protect himself, by protective tariffs and stringent immigration laws.
George Wallace, 1963 Inauguration Speech wrote:Today I have stood, where once Jefferson Davis stood, and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate then that from this Cradle of the Confederacy, this very Heart of the Great Anglo-Saxon Southland, that today we sound the drum for freedom as have our generations of forebears before us done, time and time again through history. Let us rise to the call of freedom- loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clanks its chains upon the South. In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and I say segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.
The De Facto Motto of the Indian Boarding School System wrote:Kill the Indian. Save the Man


The entire basis from the US from its founding until today can be tied to two foundational genocides: The ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from their land and confinement to the reservation system (Something that's still going on, and was the cited inspiration of concentration camps around the world throughout the 19th and 20th century.) and the creation of a forced cheap labour through African chattel slavery and explicit segregation. At no point has the U.S. ever tried to undo the damage done with either of these issues, always insisting that the genocidal status quo can be excused because the events are 'historical' and 'past us.' As if the reservation doesn't continue to exist or as if the dispossession of the descendants of African slaves could ever be overcome by waving a magic wand and declaring that they were 'free' now, without access to material wealth or the undoing of the ideology of white supremacy (without which the United States cannot exist as a concept.) To put it simply: As long as the US sits on stolen land and uses the winnings of uncompensated forced labor it will always be inextricably tied to, as you so eloquently put it, 'this stuff.'


Trump isn't new to this. His rhetoric is historically tame in this regard. Frankly, he's arguably less racist than the majority of American presidents. The only thing that's changed is that the logic of the US having to justify itself and global capitalism to the world in contradistinction to an alternative world order has disappeared. There's no reason not to be explicit about what the purpose of the US Government is, has been, and what so many of its citizens want it to be.
I am well aware of America's history with regards to genocide and slavery, and of the ongoing effects of that history. However, what you ignore is the decades of progress away from that past- slow, painful, incomplete, and grossly insufficient progress to be sure, but progress nonetheless. By ignoring that, so that you can pretend that Trump's ethnic cleansing campaign is nothing significant, you not only undermine the efforts to oppose Trump now, but do a grave insult to every single person who fought and suffered and died for that change, by dismissing their actions as fundamentally pointless.

Is Trump worse, objectively, than (insert racist President from the 19th or early 20th Century)? No, probably not (although that's arguably only because he is constrained somewhat by the nature of the modern United States- I have little doubt he'd rival Andrew Jackson if he could). But he does mark a sharp change in direction, from gradual reform in at least some areas to a return to the worst aspects of our history.

Going back to examples from the 19th. Century to argue that Trump is no different than the norm and thus not worth getting worked up about is a level of historical ignorance or dishonesty I would normally expect to see from a Republican (like when they try to claim that the Democrats are the real racists based on the Democratic Party's policies during the Civil War and Reconstruction, while cloaking themselves in the legacy of Lincoln even as they fly Confederate flags).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The House has voted on a measure to condemn Trump's racist tweets. Every Democrat voted in favour, as well as four Republicans and one independent. Republicans tried to argue that Pelosi's statements calling Trump a racist were a violation of House procedure.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-d ... d=64365956

The resolution was followed by Rep. Al Green reading articles of impeachment on the House floor:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... e-n1030546
Rep. Al Green, D-Texas, read articles of impeachment on the House floor on Tuesday as he attempted to force a vote on the issue after President Donald Trump's remarks that four Democratic lawmakers should "go back" to the countries "they came" from.

"To condemn a racist President is not enough, we must impeach him. This will be a defining vote," said Green, who has long been calling for Trump's ouster.

No vote was held on Green's measure on Tuesday.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said House Democratic leaders still have not decided yet what they will do with Green's resolution and told NBC News that they must decide by Thursday. Speaker Nancy Pelosi was also asked how she planned to handle Green's articles of impeachment and replied: "Well, you'll find out."

While more than 80 members of the House of Representatives have called for opening an impeachment inquiry, Pelosi, D-Calif., has so far resisted.

Democrats also passed a resolution on Tuesday condemning the president's "racist comments."

Green said Tuesday in remarks on the House floor that he supported both the resolution and removing Trump from office.

"What do you do when the leader of the free world is a racist? What do you do? Well, here's what you do. You file a resolution condemning the president for racist comments directed at members of Congress. What do you do? You file Articles of Impeachment,” Green said.

He continued: "These two things are not mutually exclusive, we can do this — condemn for the comments who have been made — and we can do this, impeach for the harm that the comments have done."

A recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that enthusiasm for impeachment may be waning: The July survey found 21 percent of registered voters say that there is enough evidence for Congress to begin impeachment hearings now. In June, 27 percent in the poll the same thing, a 6-point drop in one month — though that survey was of Americans, not registered voters.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said on Tuesday that he believed the House to be considering impeachment in terms of "the kinds of things that President Trump has done in terms of obstructing justice," not his attacks on the so-called squad of female lawmakers of color.

Some Democratic leaders have resisted impeachment, fearing that it would distract from the party's policy agenda, could rally Trump's base, isn't popular with the public and is doomed to fail in the Republican-controlled Senate.
He's tried to force an impeachment vote before without success, but there was much less support for impeachment among Democratic politicians then. Rumour is this time it will likely get referred to the Judiciary Committee, who would then decide whether to proceed further.


In other words... ITS ON, MOTHERFUCKERS!
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Trump tells minority Congresswomen to "go back where they came from"

Post by Solauren »

This also shows that Trump is getting careless, and may be starting to underestimate so much...
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
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