Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

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Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://cbc.ca/news/world/trump-jewish- ... -1.5254115
Showing a fresh willingness to play politics along religious and racial lines, U.S. President Donald Trump said Tuesday that American Jewish people who vote for Democrats show "either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

Trump's claim triggered a quick uproar from critics who said the president was trading in anti-Semitic stereotypes. It came amid his ongoing feud with Democratic congresswomen Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, both Muslim.

Trump has closely aligned himself with Israel, including its conservative prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, while the Muslim lawmakers have been outspoken critics of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Tlaib is a U.S.-born Palestinian American, while Omar was born in Somalia.

"Where has the Democratic Party gone? Where have they gone where they are defending these two people over the state of Israel?" Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. "I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

At Trump's urging, Israel last week blocked Omar and Tlaib from entering the country. Israel later agreed to a humanitarian visit for Tlaib to visit her grandmother, who lives in the West Bank. Tlaib declined, saying her grandmother had ultimately urged her not to come under what they considered to be humiliating circumstances.

U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar, right, and U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib have been targeted by Trump in recent weeks as being anti-Jewish and anti-Israel. (J. Scott Applewhite/Associated Press)
Trump called Omar a "disaster" for Jews and said he didn't "buy" the tears that Tlaib shed Monday as she discussed the situation. Both congresswomen support the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, a global protest of Israel.

Trump's comments were denounced swiftly by Jewish American organizations.

"This is yet another example of Donald Trump continuing to weaponize and politicize anti-Semitism," said Halie Soifer, executive director of the Jewish Democratic Council of America. "At a time when anti-Semitic incidents have increased — due to the president's emboldening of white nationalism — Trump is repeating an anti-Semitic trope."

Logan Bayroff of the liberal J Street pro-Israel group said it was "no surprise that the president's racist, disingenuous attacks on progressive women of colour in Congress have now transitioned into smears against Jews."

"It is dangerous and shameful for President Trump to attack the large majority of the American Jewish community as unintelligent and 'disloyal,"' Bayroff said. A number of groups noted that accusations of disloyalty have long been made against Jews, including in Europe during the 1930s.

The Republican Jewish Coalition defended Trump, arguing that the president was speaking about people being disloyal to themselves rather than to Israel.

"President Trump is right, it shows a great deal of disloyalty to oneself to defend a party that protects/emboldens people that hate you for your religion," the group said in a tweet.

American Jews don't necessarily support everything that Israel does, nor are most single-issue voters.

Recent polling shows that a majority of Jews identify as Democrats.

According to AP VoteCast, a survey of the 2018 electorate, 72 per cent of Jewish voters supported Democratic House candidates in 2018. Similarly, 74 per cent said they disapprove of how Trump is handling his job.

A Pew Research Centre poll conducted in April found that among Jewish Americans, 42 per cent said Trump is favouring the Israelis too much, 6 per cent said he's favouring the Palestinians too much and 47 per cent said he's striking the right balance. Jews were more likely than Christians to say Trump favours the Israelis too much, 42per cent to 26 per cent.

Omar was roundly criticized by members of both parties for saying during a town hall earlier this year that she wanted to discuss "the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country."

This is not the first time Trump has been criticized for remarks seen by some as anti-Semitic. In 2015, Trump, then a candidate, spoke to the Republican Jewish Coalition and made a similar comment.

Trump and other politicians empower anti-Semitism in Canada, says Liberal MP
"You're not going to support me because I don't want your money," he said then. "You want to control your politicians, that's fine."

Later in the campaign, he tweeted a graphic critical of his opponent Hillary Clinton that featured a six-pointed star, a pile of cash and the words "most corrupt candidate ever." The star was believed by many to be the Star of David, which is featured on the Israeli flag. The campaign denied that the star carried any special meaning.

The president first attacked Omar and Tlaib, and two other Democratic congresswomen of colour, last month by telling them to "go back" to their home countries. All four are United States citizens.
Of course, I'm guessing that a good part of his goal here is to actually incite anti-Semitism, by tying "Judaism" to "Trumpism", and thereby provoking anger on the Left against Jews. I hope most on the Left aren't stupid enough to take the bait, or corrupt enough to blame an entire race/religion/culture for the latest shit to ooze out of the Orange Rapist's mouth.

Edit: Also, I have to say, of all the surreal things that have happened in recent history, I don't think any is more surreal than the fact that Israel hawks and Neo-Nazis are now playing, at least for the moment, on the same team.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

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I think that's a rather tremendous misread of the situation, since Trump is actually trying to use an extremely well-worn piece of anti-Semitic propaganda here himself.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 02:57am I think that's a rather tremendous misread of the situation, since Trump is actually trying to use an extremely well-worn piece of anti-Semitic propaganda here himself.
Oh, indeed. His comments are absolutely anti-Semitic as well. There are usually multiple layers of ugliness to whatever he's spewing today. He's really good at cramming multiple levels of contradictory evil into his rhetoric, which then makes it hard for his opponents to pin down what he's actually saying to call him on it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

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loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 02:57am I think that's a rather tremendous misread of the situation, since Trump is actually trying to use an extremely well-worn piece of anti-Semitic propaganda here himself.
That seems like a stretch. Playing up Muslim anti-Semitism and expressing incredulity towards Jews who defend them or oppose Israel is a pretty common alt-right talking point in my experience. Can you give a reason why it's more likely this is intended as some sort of anti-Semitic propaganda?

Because I don't actually think it's both in this case.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by loomer »

Ralin wrote: 2019-08-21 07:12am
loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 02:57am I think that's a rather tremendous misread of the situation, since Trump is actually trying to use an extremely well-worn piece of anti-Semitic propaganda here himself.
That seems like a stretch. Playing up Muslim anti-Semitism and expressing incredulity towards Jews who defend them or oppose Israel is a pretty common alt-right talking point in my experience. Can you give a reason why it's more likely this is intended as some sort of anti-Semitic propaganda?

Because I don't actually think it's both in this case.
Are you unfamiliar with the age-old rhetoric that Jews are all secretly loyal to something other than the country they live in?
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Ralin »

loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 07:23am
Are you unfamiliar with the age-old rhetoric that Jews are all secretly loyal to something other than the country they live in?
Doesn't really answer my question. Trump and the Republican Party in general are both pro-Israel and theoretically pro-Jewish. Could you explain why accusing Jews of who vote Democrat of being either foolish or disloyal to Jewish interests (and by extension explicitly accusing the Democrats of being anti-Semitic) is more likely to be an elaborate way of painting the Jews as being secretly un-American or some crap instead of exactly what it sounds like?

Because that doesn't really work well coming from people who are explicitly pro-Israel, which is what anti-Semitic propaganda would be accusing American Jews of being secretly in cahoots with.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

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Ralin wrote: 2019-08-21 07:58am
loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 07:23am
Are you unfamiliar with the age-old rhetoric that Jews are all secretly loyal to something other than the country they live in?
Doesn't really answer my question. Trump and the Republican Party in general are both pro-Israel and theoretically pro-Jewish. Could you explain why accusing Jews of who vote Democrat of being either foolish or disloyal to Jewish interests (and by extension explicitly accusing the Democrats of being anti-Semitic) is more likely to be an elaborate way of painting the Jews as being secretly un-American or some crap instead of exactly what it sounds like?

Because that doesn't really work well coming from people who are explicitly pro-Israel, which is what anti-Semitic propaganda would be accusing American Jews of being secretly in cahoots with.
If American Jews who vote for anti-Israel politicians (leaving aside whether they actually are for a moment here) are being disloyal to Israel, this implies they either do or should possess dual loyalties. The idea that all Jews are or ought to be loyal to another master than the rest of the citizenship is literally one of the oldest tools used to justify anti-Semitic actions. Trump is utilizing this idea to his own ends, but he is nonetheless utilizing a particularly pernicious and persistent piece of anti-Semitic propaganda in the doing.

You may find Robert Mackay's article on it of some use.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Broomstick »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-08-21 02:56amOf course, I'm guessing that a good part of his goal here is to actually incite anti-Semitism, by tying "Judaism" to "Trumpism", and thereby provoking anger on the Left against Jews. I hope most on the Left aren't stupid enough to take the bait, or corrupt enough to blame an entire race/religion/culture for the latest shit to ooze out of the Orange Rapist's mouth.
I disagree with this interpretation. I think that Trump has bought the notion that all Jews back Israel (they don't) and they all back the current Israel administration (a lot of them don't - there are some major splits between American Jews and Israeli Jews). So... I think that in his mind he believes that if he backs Israel/Netanyahu all American Jews should fall in line behind him, and those that don't fall in line are disloyal. There's a subtext here I think that might be "if you support me I'll protect you, if you don't you'll be crushed" because that's how he rolls, you're either with him or against him.

That's Trump - other people may have different notions. Trump values loyalty to Trump above all other things.

That he follows this line of reasoning then spews a very old notion that Jews either have divided loyalties or their real loyalty is to Israel does very much play into antisemitism. Now, I don't think Trump himself has any particular animosity towards Jews (I think he saves that for Muslims and Hispanics) and his buddy Pence wants Jews because of the role they play in his end-time fantasy (though maybe he wants all Jews in Israel rather than scattered everywhere) but some of the Trump Base is definitely antisemitic, some rabidly so. I am not confident in the ability of Trump to control those guys if they're sufficiently stirred up - see some of the recent US mass shootings.

I do think Trump is clueless why what he says is offensive or dangerous.

Meanwhile, for a lot of Jews this is reminding them of Martin Niemöller's list and "what happened last time" (I've been to the local Jewish Federation twice this week for various things and heard that exact phrase multiple times). There is a definite fear in the community and they don't trust Trump to protect them because he's so obviously NOT protecting other groups. Jews don't see the verbal attacks against Ihan Omar and Rashida Tlaib as Trump attacking their enemies, they see it as Trump & Co. attacking fellow Americans. I dunno, maybe Trump thinks Jews and Muslims are at odds in America as they are in the Middle East when in fact relations between the two communities in the US are between polite and positive in most instances. After all, it's not Muslims shooting Jews or Jews shooting Muslims in this country, it's antisemitic white guys of nominal Christian heritage busting into synagogues and mosques and shooting people.
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-08-21 02:56amEdit: Also, I have to say, of all the surreal things that have happened in recent history, I don't think any is more surreal than the fact that Israel hawks and Neo-Nazis are now playing, at least for the moment, on the same team.
Agreed
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Broomstick »

Ralin wrote: 2019-08-21 07:58am
loomer wrote: 2019-08-21 07:23am Are you unfamiliar with the age-old rhetoric that Jews are all secretly loyal to something other than the country they live in?
Doesn't really answer my question. Trump and the Republican Party in general are both pro-Israel and theoretically pro-Jewish.
First, read the article loomer linked to.

Trump & Co. are "pro-Israel" largely because of Christians like Pence who view the existence of Jews necessary to the existence of Israel which is necessary to bring about the Apocalypse. They don't give a damn about Jews, they want Jews to fulfill a prophecy of death, destruction, and eternal torture for the losing side, with a side-helping of Jewish ceasing to be Jews in the end by converting to their Christian death-cult. Meanwhile, they've hitched their wagon to antisemitics, who at best want all the Jews in Israel (Yay! says Pence. Prophecy!) and quite a few want them all dead.

No, the Republican Party these days is neither pro-Israel nor pro-Jewish and thus 80% of American Jews voted against Trump last election. Trump just declared (another) 4 million people his enemy and accused them of being disloyal to the US (well, also disloyal to Israel, but most American Jews are just American, not dual American-Israeli so that should be irrelevant but unfortunately it's not)
Ralin wrote: 2019-08-21 07:58amCould you explain why accusing Jews of who vote Democrat of being either foolish or disloyal to Jewish interests (and by extension explicitly accusing the Democrats of being anti-Semitic) is more likely to be an elaborate way of painting the Jews as being secretly un-American or some crap instead of exactly what it sounds like?
Trump has a long habit of conflating loyalty to him with loyalty to the United States, accusing his political opponents of treason both implicitly and explicitly. You're either with him or against him. And because he's president in his mind if you're against him you're committing treason against the United States.
Ralin wrote: 2019-08-21 07:58amBecause that doesn't really work well coming from people who are explicitly pro-Israel, which is what anti-Semitic propaganda would be accusing American Jews of being secretly in cahoots with.
Please do not conflate "pro Jewish" and "pro Israel". They are not the same thing. One of the divisions between American Jews and Israeli Jews is that Israel the nation/administration does things that they don't agree with, or that results in backlash against Jews world wide.

40% of Jews in the world live in Israel. 40% live in the US. They are not always in agreement and sometimes very much at odds with each other. Sure, if things get bad enough they'll close ranks, but frankly, the last thing someone like Netanyahu wants is for every Jewish person in America to actually move to Israel because there's a very good chance they'd vote against him in the same numbers they vote against Trump in the US.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Trump doubled down, in a rambling rant that also featured, among other things, identifying himself as the Chosen One:

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/au ... -democrats
Donald Trump started off precisely on-message.

Strolling to the end of a White House driveway on Wednesday ahead of his departure for a veterans event in Kentucky, the president began speaking while still walking toward a crowd of waiting reporters. “So the economy is doing very, very well,” he said.

With fears of a recession stirring and public confidence in the health of the economy dropping for the first time in Trump’s presidency, it was a sound message to project to a skittish nation. But that was as good as it got.

What followed might have swept away all previous Trumpian benchmarks for incoherence, self-aggrandizement, prevarication and rancor in a presidency that has seemed before to veer loosely along the rails of reason but may never have come quite so close to spectacularly jumping the tracks.

Over an ensuing half-hour rant, Trump trucked in antisemitic tropes, insulted the Danish prime minister, insisted he wasn’t racist, bragged about the performance of his former Apprentice reality show, denied starting a trade war with China, praised Vladimir Putin and told reporters that he, Trump, was the “Chosen One” – all within hours of referring to himself as the “King of Israel” and tweeting in all caps: “WHERE IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE?”

Leaving aside those who were left merely gape-jawed, the performance inspired reactions from new expressions of doubt about Trump’s fitness for office to evocations of “the last president I know of who compared himself to the Messiah”.

(That turns out, according to Brookings Institution fellow Benjamin Wittes, to be Andrew Johnson (1865-9), whose articles of impeachment cited his “intemperate, inflammatory and scandalous harangues”.)

After the news conference, the hashtag #25thAmendmentNow was the top trending item on US Twitter, referring to a constitutional proviso by which cabinet members and the vice-president can band together to remove a president deemed unfit.

Soon after the ill-fated driveway news conference got under way, Trump faced a question about his decision to cancel a meeting with Danish prime minister Mette Frederiksen, who had rejected a proposal floated by the Trump administration to purchase Greenland as “absurd”.

Calling Frederiksen “nasty” – his preferred insult for women in politics – Trump described his wounded pride at the way his offer had been rejected.

“I thought it was a very not nice way of saying something,” Trump said. “Don’t say ‘What an absurd idea that is’… You don’t talk to the United States that way, at least under me.

“I thought it was not a nice statement, the way she blew me off.”

As Trump continued his attack on Denmark on Twitter from aboard his airplane, the world below struggled with the rest of the wild, wild things he had just said, including an attack on another group: Jews who vote for Democrats.

In response to a news conference Monday by Democratic Representatives Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib criticizing their exclusion from Israel, Trump had questioned the “loyalty” of Jews who support Democratic politicians. Accusations of “dual loyalty” have been used in the past in an attempt to undermine and marginalize Jews living outside Israel.

Asked about the “loyalty” charge Wednesday, Trump said: “I have been responsible for a lot of great things for Israel,” mentioning the relocation of the US embassy to Jerusalem and his opposition to Iran.

“I will tell you this, in my opinion, the Democrats have gone very far away from Israel,” Trump continued. “In my opinion, if you vote for a Democrat you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people, and you’re being very disloyal to Israel. And only weak people would say anything other than that.”

Trump ignored a shouted question about whether Jews in the United States have a right to be simply American – but Trump denied he was employing an antisemitic trope.

“I haven’t heard anybody say that, just the opposite,” Trump said.

Trump then embarked on an increasingly breakneck tour through the hills and valleys of a personal political landscape whose map, if it existed, was private to him, although his route was provisionally signposted by questions shouted by the media.

“We wiped out the Caliphate, 100%, I did it in record time,” he said of the fight against Isis.

“I am the least racist person ever to serve in office, OK? I am the least racist person,” he opined.

And, of course, his journey included a visit to his old favorite stomping ground: reality TV.

“I made a lot of money for NBC with The Apprentice, and I used to like them, but they are so biased,” he said. “You are so obviously biased and that’s why the public doesn’t believe you.”

His dislike for the media was on familiar display.

“The fake news, of which many of you are members, are trying to convince the public to have a recession,” he said. “‘Let’s have a recession!’”

But then – as he discussed his trade war with China – came a new twist as Trump bestowed himself with a new title certain to launch a million Twitter memes.

“This is a trade war that should have taken place years ago… somebody had to do it. I am the Chosen One.”

That last line echoed a tweet the president had sent earlier in the day, in which Trump quoted the conspiracist Wayne Allyn Root, who in the past has said that violence including the murder of a peace activist at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, was “probably paid actors & infiltrators hired by Soros”.

“The Jewish people in Israel love him,” Trump quoted Root as saying on Wednesday, “like he’s the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God.”

His putative status as the reincarnated Christian savior was not among the many topics Trump touched on Wednesday. At the end of the news conference, Trump walked toward his helicopter and headed for Kentucky.
So now he's comparing himself to the Biblical King of Israel/Second Coming of Christ.

Not surprising that #25thAmendmentNow just became the number one trending on Twitter.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Zaune »

If I ever stop procrastinating about that Salvation War/Old Harry's Game crossover I'm going to make this a plot point.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Zaune wrote: 2019-08-22 07:49am If I ever stop procrastinating about that Salvation War/Old Harry's Game crossover I'm going to make this a plot point.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Broomstick »

The problem with invoking the 25th Amendment is that it requires the President's cabinet and the Vice President to unite to remove the sitting President. Trump's cabinet is half-vacant, with mostly "acting" and unconfirmed secretaries, and Pence is never, ever going to go along with removing Trump.

The alternative to Pence and Acting Secretaries doing this would be Congress passing a law to allow some other designed body to do it ... um, good luck with that. Honestly, impeaching would probably be easier.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Elheru Aran »

Broomstick wrote: 2019-08-22 04:44pm The problem with invoking the 25th Amendment is that it requires the President's cabinet and the Vice President to unite to remove the sitting President. Trump's cabinet is half-vacant, with mostly "acting" and unconfirmed secretaries, and Pence is never, ever going to go along with removing Trump.

The alternative to Pence and Acting Secretaries doing this would be Congress passing a law to allow some other designed body to do it ... um, good luck with that. Honestly, impeaching would probably be easier.
I dunno. Is Pence greedy enough to go for it if Trump really steps over the line? I can see him cutting the feet out from under Trump if Donny keeps on with the "chosen one" shtick. Not that he would ever have the courage to do it on his own, it'll probably take a combination of whoever's on the Cabinet and the Republican leadership to put a bee up his ass about it. But I can see him taking the "oh well if you REALLY want me to, with great reluctance of course I must assume this tragic duty" [/s] line when all is said and done. He just doesn't have the balls to really do much of anything about it without some backup.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Zaune »

Either way, the drawback to that is that then we'd have to deal with President Pence.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Gandalf »

Zaune wrote: 2019-08-22 05:42pm Either way, the drawback to that is that then we'd have to deal with President Pence.
Weirdly, as a more classical theocratic Republican, he might be more electable than Trump in some places.

Though why Indiana made that Christian Taliban radio host governor remains a mystery.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by Broomstick »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2019-08-22 05:02pm I dunno. Is Pence greedy enough to go for it if Trump really steps over the line?
Pence is a religious fanatic who views leaders as divinely appointed. He won't move to remove Trump. Although if Trump was removed by someone else, yes, he'd assume the office of president. Until then, he's a loyal lapdog.
Zaune wrote: 2019-08-22 05:42pm Either way, the drawback to that is that then we'd have to deal with President Pence.
Urk. Governor Pence was bad enough.
Gandalf wrote: 2019-08-22 06:00pm Weirdly, as a more classical theocratic Republican, he might be more electable than Trump in some places.
My fear that as a professional politician and a much more civilized and polished human being Pence would be more effective at getting his agenda passed than Trump has been.
Gandalf wrote: 2019-08-22 06:00pmThough why Indiana made that Christian Taliban radio host governor remains a mystery.
Too many religious nutjobs in this state, for one thing. For another, a lot of Hoosiers have the same view as Pence and Trump: a "real American" votes Republican and Democrats are lying thugs and traitors.
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Re: Trump says Democrats are anti-Semites, Jews who vote Democrat are "disloyal".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Gandalf wrote: 2019-08-22 06:00pm
Zaune wrote: 2019-08-22 05:42pm Either way, the drawback to that is that then we'd have to deal with President Pence.
Weirdly, as a more classical theocratic Republican, he might be more electable than Trump in some places.

Though why Indiana made that Christian Taliban radio host governor remains a mystery.
Pence might have the evangelical vote locked up, and by default he'd get the people who just always vote Republican no matter what, but I doubt he'd get anyone else. He is the whitest of white bread-he has near-zero personality or charisma, and has done nothing to distinguish himself as VP, living almost entirely in Trump's shadow- while being just involved enough in stuff like the Flynn scandal and putting children in cages that Trump's baggage will follow him to the grave.

I don't see Pence as a huge threat, to be honest, or at least no more than any other Republican office-holder.
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