First alleged crime committed in Space.

[The Romulan Republic]

https://bbc.com/news/world-49457912

Nasa is reported to be investigating a claim that an astronaut accessed the bank account of her estranged spouse from the International Space Station, in what may be the first allegation of a crime committed in space.

Anne McClain acknowledges accessing the account from the ISS but denies any wrongdoing, the New York Times reports.

Her estranged spouse, Summer Worden, reportedly filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission.

Ms McClain has since returned to Earth.

The astronaut told the New York Times through a lawyer that she was merely making sure that the family's finances were in order and there was enough money to pay bills and care for Ms Worden's son - who they had been raising together prior to the split.

"She strenuously denies that she did anything improper," said her lawyer, Rusty Hardin, adding that Ms McClain was "totally co-operating".

Ms McClain and Ms Worden, who is an Air Force intelligence officer, married in 2014 and Ms Worden filed for divorce in 2018. Investigators from Nasa's Office of Inspector General have contacted both over the allegation, the New York Times reported.

Ms McClain graduated from the prestigious West Point military academy and flew more than 800 combat hours over Iraq as an Army pilot. She went on to qualify as a test pilot and was chosen to fly for Nasa in 2013.

She spent six months aboard the ISS and had been due to feature in the first all-female spacewalk, but her role was cancelled at the last minute over what Nasa said was a problem with availability of correct suit sizes.

How does the law work in space?
There are five national or international space agencies involved in the ISS - from the US, Canada, Japan, Russia and several European countries - and a legal framework sets out that national law applies to any people and possessions in space.

So if a Canadian national were to commit a crime in space, they would be subject to Canadian law, and a Russian citizen to Russian law.

Space law also sets out provisions for extradition back on Earth, should a nation decide it wishes to prosecute a citizen of another nation for misconduct in space.

As space tourism becomes a reality, so might the need to prosecute space crime, but for now the legal framework remains untested. Nasa officials told the New York Times that they were not aware of any crimes committed on the space station.

And the winner is... financial misconduct!

Also, is it weird that I find it strangely awesome that the possible first crime in space involves a lesbian couple? A couple decades ago gay marriage was illegal, and now its so commonplace that we have divorced gay people committing Space crime.

[Broomstick]

Allegedly committing Crimes! In! Space! Ms. McClain is accused, not convicted, and my not have committed any wrong-doing if she and Ms. Worden set up those accounts as joint accounts in the first place. Divorce can be messy.

[K. A. Pital]

Ugh. What is this fixation on the personal life of people?

Why does this need to be dragged out in the open, discussed like news? *shrugs*

Wish for both to overcome the difficult phase with as little attention from the media as possible. People's lives are not some sort of mass media circus for the sake of clicks.

[The Romulan Republic]

Allegedly committing Crimes! In! Space! Ms. McClain is accused, not convicted, and my not have committed any wrong-doing if she and Ms. Worden set up those accounts as joint accounts in the first place. Divorce can be messy.

True enough.

It'll be interesting to watch this case though. Since the laws around crime in space are untested, this case could potentially set legal precedent for all future off-world activity.

Ugh. What is this fixation on the personal life of people?

Why does this need to be dragged out in the open, discussed like news? *shrugs*

Wish for both to overcome the difficult phase with as little attention from the media as possible. People's lives are not some sort of mass media circus for the sake of clicks.

If you're done acting self-righteous, you might consider why this is news-worthy, the personal details of these peoples' lives notwithstanding. Were this case involving some random couple in some random town, I would agree with you. But again, this is potentially the first off-world criminal case in human history, and therefore has the potential to set legal precedent for how we handle all future criminal cases off Earth. That is absolutely newsworthy, and deriding it as being a "mass media circus for the sake of clicks" frankly reveals either profound stupidity on your part, or more likely, an attempt to come off Holier-than-thou/bash the Evil Media.

[Ace Pace]

Allegedly committing Crimes! In! Space! Ms. McClain is accused, not convicted, and my not have committed any wrong-doing if she and Ms. Worden set up those accounts as joint accounts in the first place. Divorce can be messy.

True enough.

It'll be interesting to watch this case though. Since the laws around crime in space are untested, this case could potentially set legal precedent for all future off-world activity.

Not really. If I understand the news correctly, astronauts are under the legal system of their host nation. So nothing here is really new or untested.

[The Romulan Republic]

Allegedly committing Crimes! In! Space! Ms. McClain is accused, not convicted, and my not have committed any wrong-doing if she and Ms. Worden set up those accounts as joint accounts in the first place. Divorce can be messy.

True enough.

It'll be interesting to watch this case though. Since the laws around crime in space are untested, this case could potentially set legal precedent for all future off-world activity.

Not really. If I understand the news correctly, astronauts are under the legal system of their host nation. So nothing here is really new or untested.

This is discussed in the OP article. Yes, there is a legal system in place. Ostensibly, criminals in space are under the jurisdiction of their host country (there are also extradition procedures in place). However, as there has not been an alleged crime in space, apparently, before now, those laws have never been put to the practical test.

Law isn't just what's written in the books. It also draws on precedent and established legal norms. Which there aren't, for space, yet, because this is new territory.

[loomer]

It's really not that significant until and unless the laws established are ignored. Notably, the particular alleged crime is not one that can be reasonably argued to be distinct because it took place in space from one that takes place anywhere on Earth, as the ordinary principles of territorial jurisdiction still apply and the alleged crime involved the unlawful access of financial information - a crime in the jurisdiction where it took place, of which the astronaut in question is a citizen.

[K. A. Pital]

If you're done acting self-righteous, you might consider why this is news-worthy, the personal details of these peoples' lives notwithstanding. Were this case involving some random couple in some random town, I would agree with you. But again, this is potentially the first off-world criminal case in human history, and therefore has the potential to set legal precedent for how we handle all future criminal cases off Earth. That is absolutely newsworthy, and deriding it as being a "mass media circus for the sake of clicks" frankly reveals either profound stupidity on your part, or more likely, an attempt to come off Holier-than-thou/bash the Evil Media.

Uh... so, mostly like a crime on a sailboat in international waters? Super-newsworthy, yeah.

[Ralin]

Uh... so, mostly like a crime on a sailboat in international waters? Super-newsworthy, yeah.

Yeah Stas. It's like a crime on a sailboat. Thanks for helping us see how unremarkable the whole thing is.

[K. A. Pital]

Not my fault news stuff like this gets posted as "news". But I failed to notice a thread about the fires in the Amazon that impact our lives far more than this needless thing. But hey, 4%-10% of world oxygen production is nuthin' important in big elefant, I guess, let's go through austronaut or cosmonaut dirty laundry for the sake of sensationalism.

[Dark Hellion]

Not my fault news stuff like this gets posted as "news". But I failed to notice a thread about the fires in the Amazon that impact our lives far more than this needless thing. But hey, 4%-10% of world oxygen production is nuthin' important in big elefant, I guess, let's go through austronaut or cosmonaut dirty laundry for the sake of sensationalism.

If you want a thread about something make it yourself. You are not the arbiter of what people get to be interested in. If you think this is that pointless just lock the thread.

[Broomstick]

Not my fault news stuff like this gets posted as "news". But I failed to notice a thread about the fires in the Amazon that impact our lives far more than this needless thing.

I'm not sure how interesting a thread would be where 100% of participants are 100% in agreement that This Is A Bad Thing. Sounds like a bunch of "me, too" sort of replies.

But, if you feel that you can put a spin on it that gets a discussion going by all means do so.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm not the arbiter, but I can voice my opinion: this is non-news, and also intrusive towards the private life of the people involved for no good reason. The counter-argument that it is the first crime which is in dubious jurisdiction falls apart at closer examination.

I'm not going to apply my discretion here, though, as a firm believer in freedom of speech. If you feel that's important, feel free to further dig in someone's dirty laundry.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm not the arbiter, but I can voice my opinion: this is non-news, and also intrusive towards the private life of the people involved for no good reason. The counter-argument that it is the first crime which is in dubious jurisdiction falls apart at closer examination.

I'm not going to apply my discretion here, though, as a firm believer in freedom of speech. If you feel that's important, feel free to further dig in someone's dirty laundry.

The personal affairs of the participants are the least interesting thing about this. This is the first event of its kind off Earth in human history- that alone makes it newsworthy. It is not the first crime of dubious jurisdiction, and that is a laughable straw man of my "argument", but it is the first of this particular type, involving this particular set of laws.

I appreciate that you will not try to interfere with the thread remaining open, but I must still confess that I find your response disproportionately aggressive, self-righteous, and a borderline thread derail. My honest perception is that you are trying to score points or pick a fight for reasons unrelated to the content of this thread.

[K. A. Pital]

Not really; my beef is entirely with the content of this thread. Did people lose their right to private life by virtue of working in space? I think not. The whole thing is just sad.

What is „self-righteous“ about my response? The desire to protect people whose private troubles in personal life have been suddenly subjected to media vivisection, for a minor issue that is borderline „crime“ and may not even be one?

I could understand that a person committing serious crimes (see Epstein, or the war criminals of Abu Ghraib) forfeits thereby any right to privacy, at least as far as the case is concerned.

But this? I see it for what it is: sad sensationalism, headline-hunting by desperate media for no good reason.

[TimothyC]

Ms. McClain

Astronaut McClain, Lt. Col. McClain. For all of her faults, whatever they may be, she has those two titles (she may not keep them for long however). If she didn't have the first title, this wouldn't be news at all - A random O-5's messy divorce doesn't make the news.

Did people lose their right to private life by virtue of working in space?

At this point, right or wrong, they do, especially when you become a public figure from your social media interactions.

Now, that said. She's committed one of the worst sins she could have done - she acted in a way that made her, and the agencym look bad. Based on that alone, I expect that if she didn't commit a crime she will be told to quietly resign from the Astronaut Corps, and if she did commit a crime, she's going to be kicked out.

[Gandalf]

At this point, right or wrong, they do, especially when you become a public figure from your social media interactions.

Now, that said. She's committed one of the worst sins she could have done - she acted in a way that made her, and the agencym look bad. Based on that alone, I expect that if she didn't commit a crime she will be told to quietly resign from the Astronaut Corps, and if she did commit a crime, she's going to be kicked out.

Uh, how does this make "the agency" look bad?

I would imagine that the "looks bad" bar is pretty low considering events of the past few years.

[Elheru Aran]

At this point, right or wrong, they do, especially when you become a public figure from your social media interactions.

Now, that said. She's committed one of the worst sins she could have done - she acted in a way that made her, and the agencym look bad. Based on that alone, I expect that if she didn't commit a crime she will be told to quietly resign from the Astronaut Corps, and if she did commit a crime, she's going to be kicked out.

Uh, how does this make "the agency" look bad?

I would imagine that the "looks bad" bar is pretty low considering events of the past few years.

Either "She did this on their watch" or "They hired a criminal person". Some variation thereof. It's a common attitude here that employee misbehavior reflects poorly upon the employer, in that there are certain expectations of employees which when NOT followed are considered unacceptable. See, for example, Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty getting fired from A&E for homophobic remarks. Generally 'commiting a crime' falls well within those expectations of things that employees aren't supposed to do even if it doesn't directly impact the employer; it's not unusual for people to get fired if they get arrested for something at home, for example.

[Gandalf]

I get that, but wouldn't that precedent necessitate firing people who participated in various American war crimes, among other things?

[TimothyC]

Uh, how does this make "the agency" look bad?

Astronaut McClain was picked as a part of NASA Group 21 (2013). There were eight astronauts selected out of 6300 applicants, or just under 800 people for each slot. Certainly someone in there would have been as technically qualified and wouldn't have allegedly had the lapse of judgement to allegedly do things that look like bad behavior in space.

It also reflects poorly on the team that sent her up for Expeditions 57/58/59 that she went up while in the middle of her divorce, because she allegedly demonstrated a lapse in judgement.

To top it off "First alleged crime committed in space" isn't a headline that any PR person at NASA wants to see. They have a hard enough time keeping the Human Space Flight budget and programs together, they don't need any bad press.

[Gandalf]

Astronaut McClain was picked as a part of NASA Group 21 (2013). There were eight astronauts selected out of 6300 applicants, or just under 800 people for each slot. Certainly someone in there would have been as technically qualified and wouldn't have allegedly had the lapse of judgement to allegedly do things that look like bad behavior in space.

It also reflects poorly on the team that sent her up for Expeditions 57/58/59 that she went up while in the middle of her divorce, because she allegedly demonstrated a lapse in judgement.

To top it off "First alleged crime committed in space" isn't a headline that any PR person at NASA wants to see. They have a hard enough time keeping the Human Space Flight budget and programs together, they don't need any bad press.

Based on this rationale, should participants in war crimes be kicked from their roles? Contextually, I'm thinking everything from Iraq onwards. Iraq caused bad PR, and also a death toll.

[Elheru Aran]

As for war crimes: generally, the military gets a pass, as they aren't 'employees' as much as they're basically indentured servants, but I'm not going to get into a discussion on the legal status of members of the military. They're regarded more as an arm of the government, thus basically an extension of the country, and for the most part war crimes are either simply not reported or largely buried in the mass of other news considered more interesting by the general population. Shitty? Yeah, that's the USA for you.

It's also comparable to the 'few bad apples' argument that's frequently applied to cops-- "oh, he/she was just a bad example, the rest are TRUE BLUE HEROES". I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of PR from NASA in the next few months playing up that angle.

[Gandalf]

As for war crimes: generally, the military gets a pass, as they aren't 'employees' as much as they're basically indentured servants, but I'm not going to get into a discussion on the legal status of members of the military. They're regarded more as an arm of the government, thus basically an extension of the country, and for the most part war crimes are either simply not reported or largely buried in the mass of other news considered more interesting by the general population. Shitty? Yeah, that's the USA for you.

Indentured servants? That's a new one. Also, I thought that they were supposed to disobey illegal orders?

[The Romulan Republic]

Leaving the military war crimes issue aside for the moment, I'm going to give NASA a pass on this one unless evidence comes to light that they were negligent or corrupt in hiring this person. No matter how good your screening process, eventually someone was going to be hired who either was or would become a criminal (in fact, this is not the first case of an astronaut breaking the law- just possibly the first case of one doing it while actually in space). As more and more people went into space, space crime was always going to become a thing. Frankly, I think its to NASA's credit (and the Russian and Chinese space agencies) that it hasn't happened sooner.

[Elheru Aran]

As for war crimes: generally, the military gets a pass, as they aren't 'employees' as much as they're basically indentured servants, but I'm not going to get into a discussion on the legal status of members of the military. They're regarded more as an arm of the government, thus basically an extension of the country, and for the most part war crimes are either simply not reported or largely buried in the mass of other news considered more interesting by the general population. Shitty? Yeah, that's the USA for you.

Indentured servants? That's a new one. Also, I thought that they were supposed to disobey illegal orders?

Basically they sign their own ass over to the military for a fixed, renewable time period so... yeah I thought 'indentured servant' fit?

And, yes, technically they are supposed to disobey illegal orders. The main problem is: will they KNOW it's illegal? Supposedly they're able to figure that out for themselves, but, well, seems people are kind of bad about just doing what they're told regardless because one of the big things about militaries is training the troops into basically obeying what they're told what to do without questioning... there's a reason Catch-22 was written about soldiers.

Which isn't to say I don't think they can think for themselves, I just think that a.) they kind of suck at actually teaching the troops to do so and b.) US popular media (entertainment and news) generally inculcates an attitude that basically worships the military and ignores its wrongdoings, making it easier for people to deliberately fuck up.

As to NASA-- *personally* I don't think it really reflects on them that much either, I'm more just going for a discussion of cultural aspects of crime/criminals, I guess?