Voter purge USA

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2020-05-03 10:35pm

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -election/

In Milwaukee, which is home to nearly two-thirds of the state’s Black population, one in eight registered voters was at risk of being purged. African American turnout in the city had already plummeted in 2016 after Republicans passed a voter ID law that, according to a Republican Senate aide’s sworn testimony, was aimed squarely at Milwaukee and other Democratic-leaning cities.

Fifty-five percent of the registration notices were sent to municipalities where Hillary Clinton had defeated Donald Trump, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and nine of the 10 areas with the highest concentration of voters on the purge list were big cities and college towns that had voted for Clinton. Milwaukee and Madison, the state’s two Democratic strongholds, accounted for 14 percent of the state’s registered voters but 23 percent of the names on the removal list. Voters in predominantly Black neighborhoods or areas with large student populations were nearly twice as likely to be flagged for removal, The Guardian found.

The state’s bipartisan elections commission had originally planned to give voters until 2021 to confirm their addresses and registration status before removing them from the rolls. But in November 2019, the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, a conservative group, sued the commission to force it to immediately purge voters who had not responded to the mailing. A month later, a Republican-appointed judge, Paul Malloy, sided with the group and approved the fast-tracked purge

Just a reminder that Winconsin supreme Court election fiasco is not a one off but an ongoing strategy for the upcoming election

JI_Joe84 · Post by **JI_Joe84** » 2020-05-13 07:17pm

I just don't get it, why won't people make getting a Gov. recognised photo ID a priority so they can vote and shit?
Can't we all agree that people should have to prove who they are beyond, "hey I am so and so just trust me" so that they can then cast a vote or what ever?
Jesus just get a photo ID!

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2020-05-13 09:33pm

Because it's so ridiculously easy to get photo ID as a minority in the US

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2020-05-13 09:42pm

Batman wrote: ↑2020-05-13 09:33pm Because it's so ridiculously easy to get photo ID as a minority in the US

Note the sarcasm. It's NOT FUCKIN' EASY to get a Photo ID in the US.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2020-05-13 10:03pm

JI_Joe84 wrote: ↑2020-05-13 07:17pm I just don't get it, why won't people make getting a Gov. recognised photo ID a priority so they can vote and shit?
Can't we all agree that people should have to prove who they are beyond, "hey I am so and so just trust me" so that they can then cast a vote or what ever?
Jesus just get a photo ID!

Sure. There's an functioning infrastructure to make sure that everyone has access to these documents right?

Right?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2020-05-13 10:20pm

Are state issued drivers licenses photo ids?
Don't passports count as photo id?

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 2020-05-13 10:27pm

JI_Joe84 wrote: ↑2020-05-13 07:17pm I just don't get it, why won't people make getting a Gov. recognised photo ID a priority so they can vote and shit?
Can't we all agree that people should have to prove who they are beyond, "hey I am so and so just trust me" so that they can then cast a vote or what ever?
Jesus just get a photo ID!

I might be ok with that provided:

A) Government photo IDs are provided for free
B) ID and voter information is kept accurate and up to date, again, at cost to the government
C) Governments actually provide IDs to everyone entitled to one, not simply their voting base
D) ID laws aren't structured in such a way to make it as difficult as possible for someone to get one (e.g. needing multiple pieces of other IDs which may not be commonly available)
E) There is no unreasonable delay to access to the IDs, whether by accident, incompetence and/or deliberate policy
F) All voting polls must accept the IDs. No other documentation required.
G) Voters can still vote using their IDs alone, even if they weren't registered to vote beforehand.
H) In the event someone loses their ID, their must be ways to ensure they can be easily replaced.

And even then, voter fraud is such a statistically insignificant issue that it's highly doubtful the effort would be worth it. Hell, even Trump's own commission found no evidence that it was a problem.

Of course, the odds of the above happening are practically zero because the main issue has nothing to do with actual voter fraud. Which is again, virtually non-existent.

The reality is that Republicans simply don't want minorities (and Democrats in general) voting, certainly don't want Democrats winning and are doing their best to stop it via every means at their disposal. You have the after mentioned voter purges, strict ID laws, closing of polling stations, criminalization of groups trying to help people vote, elimination of early voting and voting by mail, massive gerrymandering, disempowering Democrat elected officials once in office, challenging the integrity of the electoral system and claiming massive fraud for Democrats even when Republicans win, using the courts to prevent recounts to ensure victory, getting outside interference from countries like Russia and Ukraine, etc etc.

It's not like Republicans are trying to hide anything either, they're pretty open about it. They have abandoned all pretence of wanting to operate under a democracy, and their voter base loves them for it.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2020-05-13 11:40pm

Solauren wrote: ↑2020-05-13 10:20pm Are state issued drivers licenses photo ids?
Don't passports count as photo id?

Getting your passport costs somewhere around $160. Not everybody has that to burn.

chimericoncogene · Post by **chimericoncogene** » 2020-05-14 01:42am

I hail from a place where the government issues photo IDs from birth, so I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

My place literally has laws requiring everyone to have an ID on them at all times (we had an illegal immigrant problem in the 1970s, so random stop-searches for ID were once a thing. The laws are still on the books, but I've never heard of anyone actually getting stop-searched.). But the US doesn't have the infrastructure in place for this sort of thing, so I can see why it might be a problem.

Where I live, people are assigned dedicated polling stations. The polling station checks my ID, and crosses my name off a big list, ensuring people vote only once. Such a system is clearly technically possible.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 2020-05-14 02:19am

chimericoncogene wrote: I hail from a place where the government issues photo IDs from birth,

Well within the capacity of the US; IIRC passports are required for all travellers including infants. Generally speaking though only birth certificates are issued from birth, which are not photo ID.

chimericoncogene wrote: so I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

A) Voter fraud is not a problem, period. The arguments that stricter voter ID laws are necessary are false.
B) Getting the required ID can be very difficult for low income / minorities, especially when they are dealing with a hostile government that is actively trying to prevent them from voting.
C) Republicans openly admit that their goal by doing the voter purges and strict ID laws is to reduce voter turnout amongst minorities and Democrats.

Do you see the problem with that?

chimericoncogene wrote: My place literally has laws requiring everyone to have an ID on them at all times (we had an illegal immigrant problem in the 1970s, so random stop-searches for ID were once a thing. The laws are still on the books, but I've never heard of anyone actually getting stop-searched.). But the US doesn't have the infrastructure in place for this sort of thing, so I can see why it might be a problem.

The US does actually have the infrastructure for this. However the US Constitution (in theory at least) prohibits random stop searches, and by extension having ID at all times is not a requirement, unless you are driving, air travel etc.

chimericoncogene wrote: Where I live, people are assigned dedicated polling stations. The polling station checks my ID, and crosses my name off a big list, ensuring people vote only once. Such a system is clearly technically possible.

That is in theory how a US election is supposed to work.

The problem is Republican governments doing things like deliberately shutting down polling stations in Minority / Democrat neighbourhoods, making it as difficult as possible for Democrats / minorities to get ID, purging the lists so that they never appear on it to begin with (even when they should), and doing their best to keep said groups off. And again, they are openly admitting that the goal is to keep voter turnout from minorities / democrats as low as possible to maximise their chance of winning.

Voter fraud is not the issue here, voter suppression is. Well, one of the many issues anyways.

Zaune · Post by **Zaune** » 2020-05-14 02:51am

In most countries, all the above would see the perpetrators under arrest on charges of sedition. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending who you ask, neither President Obama nor hypothetical President Biden are likely to take this step on the grounds that it would probably trigger another War of Southern Aggression.

Zwinmar · Post by **Zwinmar** » 2020-05-14 03:28pm

I have had different experiences with the DMV in different states:
My first Driver License in Nashville, TN: My mom had to drive us some hour and a half away to get it, no I do not know if there was a closer one.
Iowa: Checked my old license to make sure its valid, some paperwork, and they print it out right there.
NY: uhh..done plain forgot
Kansas: they print out a temporary ID on a receipt, you have to wait a couple weeks to get it. Keep you old ID with you in case they ask.

Different hoops in different states, and that is for someone who has had their license continuously since they first got it. Oh, and all of them ask for residency papers of some sort or another, usually some bills work.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2020-05-14 03:50pm

DMV in NYC can be hellishly long. You can definitely spend some time waiting just to see if you have the basic required documents checked like your social security card, birth certificate, etc. After waiting a couple hours and you finally get to the person handling your application and it turns out you have extra documents you needed to submit, but didn't bring, well then you're shit out of luck and gotta go home, get it, and start over again or spend more time at another agency to get the document.

They don't staff all the teller windows either, so they are definitely running under-capacity at the level they should be.

I still remember this vividly. So many people went to the polls only to find out they were unregistered. There should be NO reason why any voter should be purged. If they have to update their address and what not, then just do it on election day for fuck's sake.

NBC wrote:The New York City Board of Elections has agreed to settle a lawsuit that alleged it violated federal law by removing more than 117,000 voters, including Asian Americans and Latinos, from voter rolls because they hadn’t cast ballots in past elections.

The consent decree, filed on Tuesday in Brooklyn federal court, requires that the board review every voter registration removed from its lists beginning July 1, 2013, identify those improperly purged, and reinstate their registrations. The board must also devise a plan to address its violations of election law.

It will have 90 days to take these steps from the date the agreement becomes effective.

“The improper removal of voters from the rolls deprives voters of their voice in choosing elected representatives,” acting U.S. Attorney Bridget M. Rohde of the Eastern District of New York said in a statement Tuesday. “The settlement in this case restores that voice and ensures that eligible voters will be heard in the future.”

Common Cause New York, the group that filed the suit, signed off on the settlement, along with the New York State Attorney General’s office and the Justice Department, which both joined the lawsuit. It still requires a judge’s approval.

“Voting should be an easily accessible right instead of subject to unnecessary obstacles,” Susan Lerner, executive director of Common Cause New York, said in a statement.

The purge, which came to light in news reports in April 2016 after New York’s presidential primary, was an attempt to “clean up” voter rolls in Brooklyn, according to court filings. Beginning in late 2013 or early 2014, officials sought to remove active-status voters who hadn’t voted since 2008 and whose registration records had no activity since that year, court documents said.

But New York state election law prohibits eliminating voters from registration rolls simply for not voting — unless they’ve been marked as “inactive” for two federal general elections, according to court papers.

The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, which the Justice Department accused the board of violating, also says boards of election “may not remove voters solely by reason of a voter’s failure to vote.”

An analysis published in June by radio station WNYC showed that a disproportionate number of cancelled voters were Hispanic. Also high on the list were voters surnamed Wong and Chan, the report found, which are common Chinese last names.

New York’s 7th Congressional District bore the brunt of the purge, according to WNYC. Asian Americans make up around 19 percent of the district and Hispanics 39 percent, according to the U.S. Census.

In its wake, several top Brooklyn elections officials were suspended without pay, and board executive director Michael Ryan publicly apologized for the mistake last May.

The board in its settlement agreed, among other things, to establish policies and procedures to ensure voters are not purged from registration lists simply for failing to vote.

It must also submit to semi-annual audits by the New York State Attorney General’s Office and provide voter registration data every month to Common Cause New York, the state attorney general, and the federal government, the agreement said.

“Voters across the City will benefit from the improved maintenance of the City’s voter rolls the Board of Elections agreed to in this settlement,” a city Law Department spokeswoman told NBC News in an email.

A voicemail and email left with the city Board of Elections were also not returned.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2020-05-14 05:33pm

JI_Joe84 wrote: ↑2020-05-13 07:17pm I just don't get it, why won't people make getting a Gov. recognised photo ID a priority so they can vote and shit?
Can't we all agree that people should have to prove who they are beyond, "hey I am so and so just trust me" so that they can then cast a vote or what ever?
Jesus just get a photo ID!

Last time I updated my ID it wound up costing me nearly a thousand dollars - the government is more and more no longer accepting old ID's as valid proof, you now have to supply supporting documentation. That can mean:

- getting a new birth certificate if you can't find your old one.
- if you are currently living in a state other than the one you were born in hope to god to people at the DMV in your current state accept your birth certificate (yes, this has been a problem)
- name change due to marriage? You will have to produce an official marriage certificate
- you may still need to produce a legal change of name to use your married name as the government is no longer accepting long-standing traditions as valid. (In my state - because all of this shit varies by state on top of everything else - a marriage certificate allows a WOMAN to change her LAST NAME ONLY - women who moved their maiden names to their middle names, a custom dating back at least into the 19th Century are screwed. Men who changed their names are screwed. Etc., etc.)
- if you married 20 or years ago the certificate you were issued at the time may no longer be acceptable. You will have to get a new, updated one from the county in which you were married. Which may mean dealing long-distance with bureaucrats
- name change due to divorce? Hope you kept a copy of the divorce decree/name change. Otherwise, you will probably have to go to court. Or at the very least get a new copy of the decree.
- If you didn't officially/legally change your name after divorce (never mind returning to a prior name has been a custom for a very long time, generations, and never required an official legal name change before) you will be forced to return to using your prior name.
- if you you've had more than one marriage and/or divorce you may face a situation where you MUST go to court to a legal ruling/name change. That will be several hundred dollars. At least. It could cost into the thousands.
- if the names on all your documentation don't match EXACTLY what is on your legal birth certificate you might also have to go to court.

That's just for your name - you will also have to prove legal residence with a name on a lease or mortgage, AND a utility bill with your name on it. Poor people in casual living arrangements - crashing on a friend's couch, informal arrangements with family members - are fucking screwed because they can not get that RealID the government is pushing everyone to get.

That's why people don't "just get an ID". The cost of getting them keep increasing. And if you're poor, and your living situation has been chaotic, and you haven't kept scraps of paper for decades, you have to pay to recover all of that. Then you might have to go to court because someone in a government agency 10 or 20 or more years ago misspelled your name or put a typo on your birth certificate that YOU now have to pay hundreds of dollars to correct or you don't get that magic ID. No joke, I know someone whose birth certificate mispelled their birth month as Decemb3er. He has been told that has to have that birth certificate legally corrected or he can NOT get a RealID, nevermind it's such a fucking obvious typo. That means after next year he can't get on an airplane, he won't be able to enter a courthouse, if he moves out of state he won't be able to get a new driver's license. And good luck voting.

So that's why.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2020-05-14 05:39pm

Gandalf wrote: ↑2020-05-13 10:03pm
JI_Joe84 wrote: ↑2020-05-13 07:17pm I just don't get it, why won't people make getting a Gov. recognised photo ID a priority so they can vote and shit?
Can't we all agree that people should have to prove who they are beyond, "hey I am so and so just trust me" so that they can then cast a vote or what ever?
Jesus just get a photo ID!
Sure. There's an functioning infrastructure to make sure that everyone has access to these documents right?

Right?

Ha.

Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

>whew!< I needed a good belly laugh.

No, there isn't. Well, there sort of is, but it's fragmented. Some states issue documents on a state level. Some on a county level. Some on a usually-county-but-sometimes-city. Some do all three. There are over 20 cities in the US that are NOT located in any county (I know this because I was born in one of those cities).

So... let's say someone in the DMV in Texas (which if I recall issues all this stuff on a state level) sees that someone has a birth certificate issued by Brooklyn, New York, New York, which isn't even a city, it's a part of a city, and says, that's no good, I have to see your state-issued document. Except New York doesn't issue these things by state, only by county, or if you're in New York City, by borough. Then you have morons who think New Mexico, Alaska, and Hawaii are foreign countries. And someone born in Washington, DC doesn't have a "state of birth" because DC isn't in a state.....

It's a fucked up mess.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2020-05-14 05:44pm

Solauren wrote: ↑2020-05-13 10:20pm Are state issued drivers licenses photo ids?
Don't passports count as photo id?

Yes, passports are photo ID's and they are the gold standard. Or at least they're supposed to be - I've occasionally encountered morons who don't even recognize a passport when they see one and don't understand it's valid ID for just about anything. But to get one you need a legal residence, birth certificate, proof of citizenship, and proof of legal name.

And state issued driver's licenses are photo ID's, but they're now requiring as much ID to get one of those as for a passport these days.

Me, I think it's getting to the point where a standardized, national ID is starting to make a lot of sense, but I'm sure our government would find a way to fuck that up, not to mention all that "states rights" and "sovereign citizens" who'd have a meltdown over the concept (already are, in fact, with RealID), AND you have to deal with the fact that until recently no one ever needed this much documentation to satisfy legal ID requirements so the older you are the more likely you are to have lost something along the way, or somebody screwed up entering information into a database, and then it's lots and lots of money to get it all straightened out.

Ralin · Post by **Ralin** » 2020-05-14 06:04pm

Broomstick wrote: ↑2020-05-14 05:39pm Ha.

Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

>whew!< I needed a good belly laugh.

No, there isn't. Well, there sort of is, but it's fragmented. Some states issue documents on a state level. Some on a county level. Some on a usually-county-but-sometimes-city. Some do all three. There are over 20 cities in the US that are NOT located in any county (I know this because I was born in one of those cities).

So a year or so ago the company person in charge of my district was asking me to explain how national ID works in the US because she flat out didn't get it and it was kind of a pain since she sometimes had to walk American teachers through providing it for visa applications. It was...yeah. I explained out there's no national ID but that every state has their own form of national state ID, but that's beneath federal ID which takes multiple forms.

"So everyone in the US has a passport?"

"No, in fact most don't."

"Social Security card?"

"Not ID, but it is often used as ID."

"Birth certificate?"

"You can use that to get ID, but some people don't have birth certificates."

"..."

Etc.

She literally broke down laughing by the end.

Zaune · Post by **Zaune** » 2020-05-14 07:15pm

And here in the UK, not only do we manage to prevent voter fraud without demanding photo ID for the most part (mostly by tying the registration process to the local equivalent of Social Security numbers) but we manage pretty well without any kind of standard photo ID system at all.

And I happen to agree with some of those sovereign citizen types about some of their concerns, incidentally. Albeit mostly because the current US Supreme Court would be unlikely to object to making failure to present it to a police officer on demand an arrestable offence.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2020-05-14 08:54pm

Should I point out that you now need to have a REAL ID compliant driver's license (which requires the sending of a birth certificate in) by the end of this summer to fly commercially?

chimericoncogene · Post by **chimericoncogene** » 2020-05-14 11:03pm

America and the UK are so weird. A national ID, fingerprinting and facial recognition is the bare minimum expected of a functional modern state.

Heck, you guys issued national identity cards for every person in Iraq. The capacity for a rapid rollout totally exists.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2020-05-15 12:53am

MKSheppard wrote: ↑2020-05-14 08:54pm Should I point out that you now need to have a REAL ID compliant driver's license (which requires the sending of a birth certificate in) by the end of this summer to fly commercially?

Or a passport.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2020-05-15 02:03am

MKSheppard wrote: ↑2020-05-14 08:54pm Should I point out that you now need to have a REAL ID compliant driver's license (which requires the sending of a birth certificate in) by the end of this summer to fly commercially?

That got pushed to next year, largely as a result of this spring.

madd0ct0r · Post by **madd0ct0r** » 2020-05-15 10:23am

The thing that bugs me is that this is transparently about voter supression.

So the Id chosen as a requirement will, by intention, not easy to acquire. The harder, slower of more expensive it is is, the more successful the vote suppression is.

And if someone manages to reform the system so that the required Id is fast, efficient and owned by most - say a passport drive, then the same chucklefucks looking to suppress the vote will change/ increase the id required or seek to undermine/wreck the working system. This will damage the main purpose of that id as a side effect.

It's a recurring cycle of institutional damage that will spread into all systems it touches.

Post by **Eternal_Freedom** » 2020-05-15 11:52am

Zaune wrote: ↑2020-05-14 07:15pm And here in the UK, not only do we manage to prevent voter fraud without demanding photo ID for the most part (mostly by tying the registration process to the local equivalent of Social Security numbers) but we manage pretty well without any kind of standard photo ID system at all.

And I happen to agree with some of those sovereign citizen types about some of their concerns, incidentally. Albeit mostly because the current US Supreme Court would be unlikely to object to making failure to present it to a police officer on demand an arrestable offence.

Indeed. At the election back in December (a typical one in method if not timing), we got send polling cards well in advance, telling us when (and where) we go to vote. You didn't need to take ID - or even the polling cards. They had a big list, sorted by name and address. You step up, give them name, they confirm the address, cross you off that list, give you a ballot card and send you off to a booth. Simple, quick, no ID required. The first time I heard about how voting is done in the States I actually laughed and couldn't believe it was that different to here.

Zwinmar · Post by **Zwinmar** » 2020-05-15 12:54pm

Something else to keep in mind: Birth Certificates are a relatively new thing. Odds are, a grandparent who was born at home does not have one. Even though they were drafted during WWII/Korea. Because they do not have them, with the new rules, they can't get an ID. The social security card was never intended to be an ID itself, it even says so the card.

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