Americans in the middle of Baghdad...

[weemadando]

They've made it to the main palace, and the Ministry of Information without significant resistance. Where have I seen this before?

Oh yes, thats right... Rome.

Where they'd let the enemy breach their walls and charge headlong to the centre of the city, then close up the hole in the wall and hit the cut off force from all sides.

Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works.

[MKSheppard]

Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works.

Problem. We hold the Baghdad international airport and have hundreds
of C-130s, C-17s and C-5s ready to land supplies, so this ain't a stalingrad

[Stormbringer]

Wow, you don't even wait to see the results before declaring it an American Stalingrad. The stupidty of that is amazing. Why not wait for the results before crowing over them, egh?

[Sea Skimmer]

They've made it to the main palace, and the Ministry of Information without significant resistance. Where have I seen this before?

Oh yes, thats right... Rome.

Where they'd let the enemy breach their walls and charge headlong to the centre of the city, then close up the hole in the wall and hit the cut off force from all sides.

Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works.

Iraqi forces attempting to wipe a force of 105 tanks and Bradley's would be both amusing and a good thing, its far easier to wipe out the defenders when they come to you.

[weemadando]

Wow, you don't even wait to see the results before declaring it an American Stalingrad. The stupidty of that is amazing. Why not wait for the results before crowing over them, egh?

Just like you people don't wait for the results before declaring total victory.

If there's one thing that Australia has learnt its that you should never expect victory before its been well and truly won and the troops are home safe.

[weemadando]

Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works.

Problem. We hold the Baghdad international airport and have hundreds
of C-130s, C-17s and C-5s ready to land supplies, so this ain't a stalingrad

Ahhh... Just wait for Generals Sand, Summer and Nationalism...

[MKSheppard]

Ahhh... Just wait for Generals Sand, Summer and Nationalism...

Yeah right. And our M-1s with TURBINE engines rolled through the
sandstorms while the helos were grounded during the sandstorms
recently...

Can I have whatever yer smokin?

[weemadando]

:roll:
Iraqi forces attempting to wipe a force of 105 tanks and Bradley's would be both amusing and a good thing, its far easier to wipe out the defenders when they come to you.

I have no doubts that in a front-up battle the Americans would easily defeat them. But why the hell would the Iraqi's do that? For some reason everyone seems to assume that the Iraqi resistance is being led by a bunch of lemmings with AK-47s who are directly descended from General Haig.

[Sea Skimmer]

Iraqi forces attempting to wipe a force of 105 tanks and Bradley's would be both amusing and a good thing, its far easier to wipe out the defenders when they come to you.

I have no doubts that in a front-up battle the Americans would easily defeat them. But why the hell would the Iraqi's do that? For some reason everyone seems to assume that the Iraqi resistance is being led by a bunch of lemmings with AK-47s who are directly descended from General Haig.

Note: You are the one suggesting this force would somehow be wiped out

[weemadando]

:roll:

Yeah right. And our M-1s with TURBINE engines rolled through the
sandstorms while the helos were grounded during the sandstorms
recently...

Can I have whatever yer smokin?

Hell no man. This shit is expensive.

[MKSheppard]

For some reason everyone seems to assume that the Iraqi resistance is being led by a bunch of lemmings with AK-47s who are directly descended from General Haig.

That's because they ARE.

[Stormbringer]

Just like you people don't wait for the results before declaring total victory.

When did I declare victory you fuctard? I'm going to wait and see if the Iraqis actually put up an effective fight before I declare anything.

If there's one thing that Australia has learnt its that you should never expect victory before its been well and truly won and the troops are home safe.

A good lesson. But you're claiming defeat before the whole thing's done. Equally foolish though no doubt a pleasant thought for you.

[Chris OFarrell]

They've made it to the main palace, and the Ministry of Information without significant resistance. Where have I seen this before?

Oh yes, thats right... Rome.

Where they'd let the enemy breach their walls and charge headlong to the centre of the city, then close up the hole in the wall and hit the cut off force from all sides.

Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works.

There is a titanic difference here. Its one thing to have a light infintry force in Roman times getting pulled into a long thin line through a city, getting cut off and having opposing infintry come at them from all sides in a walled city.

And its very much something else to have a mobile mechanized collum making a lightning thrust through a modern city against an inferior oponent with near zero fire or air support (when you have GOD knows how much air and fire support), reinforcements only a short distance away and a major staging point in the airfield which can serve as a point to resupply and reinforce.

Not to mention this was almost certinaly only one part of a major operation.

[weemadando]

Note: You are the one suggesting this force would somehow be wiped out :roll:

Am I? I'm simply suggesting that perhaps a really narrow axis of advance driving to the centre of a hostile city to raise the flag possibly isn't the best idea militarily speaking.

[weemadando]

Just like you people don't wait for the results before declaring total victory.

When did I declare victory you fuctard? I'm going to wait and see if the Iraqis actually put up an effective fight before I declare anything.

If there's one thing that Australia has learnt its that you should never expect victory before its been well and truly won and the troops are home safe.

A good lesson. But you're claiming defeat before the whole thing's done. Equally foolish though no doubt a pleasant thought for you.

When did I claim defeat. Thats right - NEVER.

Look. I am pointing out a strategic move that to me has a large tag attatched proclaiming stupidity.

Call me wrong in thinking this way. But don't put words in my mouth.

[MKSheppard]

U.S. infantry officer says "We own Baghdad" - Fox

WASHINGTON, April 7 (Reuters) - A United States infantry officer told Fox news on Monday that U.S. soldiers took an American Flag into the presidential palace in Iraq's capital.

The officer claimed ownership of Baghdad in a conversation with Fox newsman Greg Kelly, who was broadcasting live by videophone.

"Saddam Hussein says he owns Baghdad. We own Baghdad. We own his palaces; we own downtown. ... the Third Infantry Division officer told Fox News Channel.

The infantry officer then said he intended to "turn on one of the golden faucets in Saddam Hussein's bathroom" and take his first shower in a month.

[Shaidar Haran]

When did I claim defeat. Thats right - NEVER.

"Congratulations. You're in the middle of an unsecured city waving your flag and telling the public you've won it. Ask the 150,000 germans who died at Stalingrad how well that works."

You're own words. That sure seems like it too me.

Look. I am pointing out a strategic move that to me has a large tag attatched proclaiming stupidity.

Call me wrong in thinking this way. But don't put words in my mouth.

I think it's premature to claim victory but it's also premature to call this Stalingrad.

[MKSheppard]

Look. I am pointing out a strategic move that to me has a large tag attatched proclaiming stupidity.

The Yanks have achieved in a few hours what it took the bloody
brits 2 weeks to achieve...

Why am I reminded of Monty waiting on the Rhine for the PERFECT
river assault, supported by hundreds of guns, and in the middle of the
operation, he gets word that PATTON has crossed the Rhine at
an undefended point

[Sea Skimmer]

Note: You are the one suggesting this force would somehow be wiped out

Am I? I'm simply suggesting that perhaps a really narrow axis of advance driving to the centre of a hostile city to raise the flag possibly isn't the best idea militarily speaking.

It forces the enemey to fight where you want to engage them, and then presents a big hard to ignore target, but also one thats going to kill anything that comes at it and can easily leave.

Sounds good to me.

[Coyote]

Lies and propaganda! Lies and propaganda! The US troops are at a desert training facility in California, storming a mock-up of Baghdadgrad for the benefit of propaganda photographers!

The entire US imperial colonial expeditionary force in Iraq was wiped out in the first five minutes of combat in a firefight with a 12-year-old shepherd armed with a rusty Enfield! US soldiers ran screaming, "It's another Vietnam! It's another Vietnam!"

Ever since then, the entire "war" has been filmed for your entertainment and presented as "news" a la "War of the Worlds". Lies and propaganda! Lies and propaganda!

In fact, every American on the planet is dead from uber-superior Third Wold thought waves, and replaced by clever look alike robots. Lies and propaganda! Lies and propaganda!

[Glocksman]

The Yanks have achieved in a few hours what it took the bloody
brits 2 weeks to achieve...

Perhaps the Brits wanted to minimize civilian casualties?
Besides, we haven't taken Baghdad yet, a reconnisance in force hardly equals total control.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Yanks have achieved in a few hours what it took the bloody
brits 2 weeks to achieve...

Why am I reminded of Monty waiting on the Rhine for the PERFECT
river assault, supported by hundreds of guns, and in the middle of the
operation, he gets word that PATTON has crossed the Rhine at
an undefended point

His crossing at Messinia was worse. Eight Army spent days lining up something like five hundred guns to bombard the far side, which did not have a single defender on it, with the closest ones about fifty miles away driving north as quickly as they could.

[MKSheppard]

Besides, we haven't taken Baghdad yet, a reconnisance in force hardly equals total control.

This is no reconnaisance in force. This is the Real Thing.

[Glocksman]

This is no reconnaisance in force. This is the Real Thing

Is it?

From the BBC:

However US military officials at their operational headquarters in Qatar say no-one should conclude that American forces in Baghdad are intending to stay in the city centre.

They said the operation under way in the Iraqi capital could be similar to the one on Saturday in which US troops entered Baghdad and then withdrew

Link


Of course this could be Pentagon disinformation intended for the Iraquis as well.

[Sea Skimmer]

Unless officials are given a name and rank you cant put much faith in what they supposedly said. While I think this likely is just another recon, maybe with the objective of destroying from defenders, CNN's reporter with the force is saying that the unit was planning to stay and that it wasn't just another recon.