War is not the answer?

[Kelly Antilles]

As I was driving back from lunch, I saw a sign in someone's yard that said "War is not the answer". It had a dove with the obligatory olive branch in its claw (ooh, more Christian faith seeping into the real world).

My question is:

Given what we know now... the torture chambers in the Palace, the chemical weapons, the underground nuclear facility, etc.

Why is war not the answer? What *IS* the answer?

[Darth Wong]

As I was driving back from lunch, I saw a sign in someone's yard that said "War is not the answer". It had a dove with the obligatory olive branch in its claw (ooh, more Christian faith seeping into the real world).

My question is:

Given what we know now... the torture chambers in the Palace, the chemical weapons, the underground nuclear facility, etc.

Why is war not the answer? What *IS* the answer?

The answer is what happens after the war, which we all hope to be something good. But the war was necessary to get to that point.

[jegs2]

Why is war not the answer? What *IS* the answer?

Depends on the question. All things are situation-dependent, and war is only part of an answer when it is necessary. Reconstruction and reconciliation is just as important.

[The_Nice_Guy]

War is not always the answer. Not even the most rabid warmonger will say that the solution of war should be applied to all international problems.

Different problems, different solutions. Sometimes war is the best answer, sometimes it's not.

In the case of Iraq, it's sad that war is indeed the only answer we could think of.

The Nice Guy

[Joe]

As I was driving back from lunch, I saw a sign in someone's yard that said "War is not the answer". It had a dove with the obligatory olive branch in its claw (ooh, more Christian faith seeping into the real world).

My question is:

Given what we know now... the torture chambers in the Palace, the chemical weapons, the underground nuclear facility, etc.

Why is war not the answer? What *IS* the answer?

Yeah, we have one of those in Athens...a woman stands up, holding the sign at the front of the University, defiling the presence of our Arch.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

The answer? Love beads and more inspectors, of course.

[Enricko]

For Saddam Hussein, I must admit that short of assination, war was the only solution. However, I would have prefer a UN mandate.

[Col. Crackpot]

the repetition of simplistic slogans and burning down the local starbucks! thats the answer man! fight the power!

[Enricko]

the repetition of simplistic slogans and burning down the local starbucks! thats the answer man! fight the power!

"NO FUTURE!"

[Companion Cube]

the repetition of simplistic slogans and burning down the local starbucks! thats the answer man! fight the power!

"NO FUTURE!"

DEATH TO IMPERIALISTIC STARBUCKS!

[Kelly Antilles]

While I can appreciate your humor, people. THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION

[Lagmonster]

Why is war not the answer? What *IS* the answer?

War isn't THE answer, but it's probably one of the BEST. I know that isn't what the shortsighted dimwit who wrote that wonderfully unhelpful criticism meant, but most people who criticise can't seem to propose reasonable alternatives, even if you give them the time and resources to do so.

I am willing to bet that, if we put our minds to it, we could sit down and come up with at least a half-dozen possible alternatives, each worse than the last.

So...war may not be THE answer, but for all the dozens of sub-and-secondary goals that the voluminous and convoluted US government and people had, war was probably the BEST answer.

[Ted C]

As Lagmonster said, people who say "War is not the answer" typically don't have a viable alternative to propose.

What were we supposed to do, ask Saddam to abandon his position of power and wealth? Maybe we could threaten to punish the general population of Iraq with even more sanctions that would have no noticeable affect on their troublesome dictator.

The only thing that would have any chance of displacing him was some kind of threat, and threat's are worthless if you don't back them up with action. That's why he ignored the UN's toothless ultimatums. He only let inspectors back in because we started putting hundreds of thousands of troops on his border.

We did offer him the opportunity to bug out of Iraq. He could have gone to live in exile with his buddies in Syria, taking most of his money with him. Heck, the Italians offered to give him a place to stay. He could be living comfortably in a Mediterranean villa, but he didn't think Dubya had the will to drive an army through Iraq to throw him out.

So, the poor civilians and conscripts of Iraq get stuck in the middle as Dubya maintains his credibility by following through on his threat. His armies and militias were little more than a speed bump, and all that he was trying to hold onto is now gone.

It's too late to protest the war and occupation now; the fighting is over and the US is the only force in the area that has any chance of restoring order. I just hope that we can keep the assorted tribes and religious factions from tearing each other apart and get them back in control of their country with a civilized government reasonably quickly.

[Nathan F]

If we can get a third world country like Afghanistan, with all it's tribes and factions, back on its feet, then we SURELY can get a developed fairly wealthy nation with a large middle class educated populace started back.

[Raptor 597]

If we can get a third world country like Afghanistan, with all it's tribes and factions, back on its feet, then we SURELY can get a developed fairly wealthy nation with a large middle class educated populace started back.

Except we have only begun to prop Afghanistan up. The US Congress is not giving Afghanistan enough funds for a complete reconstruction. But Afghanistan is on the right path.

[Ted C]

If we can get a third world country like Afghanistan, with all it's tribes and factions, back on its feet, then we SURELY can get a developed fairly wealthy nation with a large middle class educated populace started back.

Unfortunately, we haven't really succeeded with Afghanistan, yet. The authority of Kharzai's government extends about the city limits of Kabul; regional warlords are still having their way with the rest of the country.

Furthermore, US aid has declined since Bush started focusing on Iraq. I'm hoping Afghanistan doesn't come apart at the seams while the world is looking elsewhere. The progress of Afghanistan is a good foreteller of the fate of Iraq, I suspect.

[Stormbringer]

If we can get a third world country like Afghanistan, with all it's tribes and factions, back on its feet, then we SURELY can get a developed fairly wealthy nation with a large middle class educated populace started back.

Unfortunately, we haven't really succeeded with Afghanistan, yet. The authority of Kharzai's government extends about the city limits of Kabul; regional warlords are still having their way with the rest of the country.

Furthermore, US aid has declined since Bush started focusing on Iraq. I'm hoping Afghanistan doesn't come apart at the seams while the world is looking elsewhere. The progress of Afghanistan is a good foreteller of the fate of Iraq, I suspect.

Part of the problem is Ahfganistan doesn't want to be put back together. While the US could have done more, the fact is they'd rather blow each to bits than build a country. They'd rather settle centuries old scores than fix their problems. They only sort of united to kick the soviets out; now they'd rather go back to their old grudges.

[Rubberanvil]

Part of the problem is Ahfganistan doesn't want to be put back together. While the US could have done more, the fact is they'd rather blow each to bits than build a country. They'd rather settle centuries old scores than fix their problems. They only sort of united to kick the soviets out; now they'd rather go back to their old grudges.

The the Coalition forces are stuck are in the middle of it. In addition to lacking the option of pulling out of there due to world opinion on the matter.

[Darth Wong]

The progress of Afghanistan is a good foreteller of the fate of Iraq, I suspect.

The sincerity of George Bush's claim that "we won't forget you" has been sorely tested with Afghanistan. If Iraq collapses into ethnic strife and lawlessness, will he just start another war somewhere to distract us?

[Durandal]

The progress of Afghanistan is a good foreteller of the fate of Iraq, I suspect.

The sincerity of George Bush's claim that "we won't forget you" has been sorely tested with Afghanistan. If Iraq collapses into ethnic strife and lawlessness, will he just start another war somewhere to distract us?

I'd imagine that Syria is up for replacing Iraq in the Axis of Evil.

[Enricko]

Bush will carve a path of devastations through out the World, carefully avoiding taking on a country that can pose a real threat to the US (like North Korea). That will give him a couple of years at the Presidency...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The progress of Afghanistan is a good foreteller of the fate of Iraq, I suspect.

The sincerity of George Bush's claim that "we won't forget you" has been sorely tested with Afghanistan. If Iraq collapses into ethnic strife and lawlessness, will he just start another war somewhere to distract us?

Mike, I think it can be proven that Afghanistan is doing better under Karzai than under the Taliban. You can't expect democracy overnight in a country like that - It should be considered impressive that civil war hasn't broken out again. (Low level occasional violence between the warlords should be expected.)

Look at a place like Yemen, where the current ruler is definitely not democratic, and gets complimented merely for extending central government authority further into the countryside than anyone before him. Why shouldn't we judge the Karzai regime by a standard like that, which seems much more fair, than by that of western democracy, which is impossible for a society which was previously medieval to immediately achieve?

Oh sure, we can still look at them and call them primitive, and the conditions atrocious - But we can't expect them to change overnight. I don't think we've left them behind at all. I think we've set them on a course which will eventually create the conditions by which democracy can exist. It may take decades and decades, but it will now be possible, and that's the critical thing and where Bush has kept his word.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'd imagine that Syria is up for replacing Iraq in the Axis of Evil.

Iraq is the Tatical Pivot, Saudi Arabia is the Strategic Pivot, and Egypt is the Prize.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Iraq is the Tactical Pivot, Saudi Arabia is the Strategic Pivot, and Egypt is the Prize.

It is genius, isn't it?

Iraq provides us with a staging point to pursue other countries in the region as necessary.

The KSA is the strategic objective in the region because of the economic power they wield with their oil reserves - Power used to influence Islam towards Wahhabi fanaticism.

Egypt is the prize because it contains the Suez Canal, which would force us to remain in the Mid-East and be involved in its affairs even if there were no oil in the region at all. We're a trading nation and the Suez Canal is absolutely, utterly vital to trade.

So our operations must be directed against the pivots to maintain control over the Prize - Direct or Indirect it doesn't matter. As long as we have the Prize, commerce will continue to travel unhindered, and so, for that matter, will the oil. Syria and Iran are bonus points, though they and others may come first (largely because they're easier).

[Yogi]

Re: Peaceniks (like me) never propose a viable alternative.

How about, it is not our job to step in and intervine each time a dictator mistreats its citizens (and if it was, there are plenty of OTHER places to go as well.)