Toppling of Saddam's Statue a setup?

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-04-12 01:34am

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le2838.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le2842.htm

Our teacher showed this to us during class... Any idea how accurate this is? This site is very anti-war, and there seem to be some outlandish stuff. However, some of it is genuine...

So, any thoughts?

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-04-12 02:41am

I would say these pictures don't hold water.........The reason, they could have been taken at anytime. The statue was already taken down when the picture were taken, mean the crowd was alread disprised.

Look at this picture, people are standing near the Y of the street near the little building next to the palace while it was being taken down. Notice how the sidewalk the crowd is standing on gets wider.

[img]http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/galleries/b ... gfx/03.jpg[/img]

In the picture of the site you showed us, the crowd is gone, and there is a HmmVee which would have appeared in the first if they were taken around the same time. You can also notice the side walk getting slightly wider.

[img]http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... 2PHOTO.gif[/img]

The site is BS. On the Second link I could point out the soilder behind the guy circled in red (The one in desert camo, and the backpack) may also be the guy screaming in the next picture, or any number of people.

[img]http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... ALIB~1.gif[/img]

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-04-12 02:42am

I would say these pictures don't hold water.........The reason, they could have been taken at anytime. The statue was already taken down when the picture were taken, mean the crowd was alread disprised.

Look at this picture, people are standing near the Y of the street near the little building next to the palace while it was being taken down. Notice how the sidewalk the crowd is standing on gets wider.

In the picture of the site you showed us, the crowd is gone, and there is a HmmVee which would have appeared in the first if they were taken around the same time. You can also notice the side walk getting slightly wider.

The site is BS. On the Second link I could point out the soilder behind the guy circled in red (The one in desert camo, and the backpack) may also be the guy screaming in the next picture, or any number of people.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-04-12 02:47am

They could have been taken some time later. The crowd probably ran off to go loot government buildings (I'm not being sarcastic) after the statue fell.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-12 02:51am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:They could have been taken some time later. The crowd probably ran off to go loot government buildings (I'm not being sarcastic) after the statue fell.

Not just government buildings I bet- a lot of ordinary homes have been broken into and looted as well.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-04-12 02:58am

Vympel wrote:
Not just government buildings I bet- a lot of ordinary homes have been broken into and looted as well.

Oh yes, and a lovely thing it is - The looting of the residences of Ba'ath party loyalists is utterly deserved and perfectly appropriate. It also shows some revolutionary fervour which will show these people well in their new democracy (Maybe the French are feeling some of their shame from seeing images which bring to mind their own glories in spreading Equality, Liberty, and Fraternity across Europe). And besides that, this is the ultimate way of taking your taxes back from the government.

I've also heard that the German Embassy has been looted and burned, along with a French cultural center being looted, and many U.N. offices and other foreign facilities. These people are aware of who held up their liberation and they don't like them.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-12 04:33am

An aside, but they're even looting hospitals. Hospitals, for fuck's sake. That's just wrong.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-04-12 04:44am

My impression was that they were looting pretty much everything, not just Ba'athist residences...

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-04-12 05:26am

There's a French Cultural centre in Baghdad?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-12 05:32am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Oh yes, and a lovely thing it is - The looting of the residences of Ba'ath party loyalists is utterly deserved and perfectly appropriate. It also shows some revolutionary fervour which will show these people well in their new democracy (Maybe the French are feeling some of their shame from seeing images which bring to mind their own glories in spreading Equality, Liberty, and Fraternity across Europe). And besides that, this is the ultimate way of taking your taxes back from the government.

I've also heard that the German Embassy has been looted and burned, along with a French cultural center being looted, and many U.N. offices and other foreign facilities. These people are aware of who held up their liberation and they don't like them.

Notice I said *ordinary* people, not Ba'athists.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-04-12 06:10am

I should note that there was a more professional looking version of this photo (still the same one) and comments on www.antiwar.com.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/baghdad.html

Doesn't really add anything, it's just that it doesn't look nearly so amateurish.

The BBC website had the honesty to say that "dozens" of Iraqis were involved, but this grain of truth was swamped by the overwhelming impression of mass joy. The radio and TV were even worse.

From the original site.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-04-12 06:37am

Vympel wrote:
Notice I said *ordinary* people, not Ba'athists.

Well, considering that pretty much everyone is involved in the looting, I don't think they'd loot their own homes. In a city like Baghdad, though, the middle class is going to be entirely government workers and is probably going to get worked over thoroughly. They also deserve nothing less - It's minor functionaries like that who have been cataloging things like "number of gold teeth extracted and reprocessed" since mass killing became industrialized. Vive L'Mob!

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-04-12 06:39am

Gandalf wrote:There's a French Cultural centre in Baghdad?

Yes. Fortunately not attached to the French embassy, which still had a military guard and so was not hit. The cultural centre didn't, though, and so was properly looted.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-04-12 06:42am

neoolong wrote:An aside, but they're even looting hospitals. Hospitals, for fuck's sake. That's just wrong.

Yes, it is, but I can't blame them for getting carried away in some cases. Things with Saddam's name on it, things with his picture and image - Or the foreign aide facilities, widely seen as supporting the regime.. All will be going. Certainly they should have the sense, one might wish, to restrain themselves from going after hospitals. But one cannot expect a mob to stop.

We don't know the full extent of the damage to medical facilities - hopefully it has been exagerrated (there's no report of any being destroyed that I've heard of at any rate at least) and perhaps even entirely blown out of proportion.

This to shall pass, though, and indeed perhaps getting a bit carried away will be helpful. Always good to add a sober touch when you do something like that (the downside with the French revolution was that mob = government).

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-04-12 12:48pm

Now, I'm wondering something: What are they trying to say by saying this was a setup, and there weren't so many people there?

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-04-12 12:52pm

::Clicks button on stopwatch:: Wow. Only took us 12 weeks to come up with conspiracy theories. Good job, guys.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-04-12 03:35pm

[quote="Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi"]Now, I'm wondering something: What are they trying to say by saying this was a setup, and there weren't so many people there?[/quote]

They are trying to say that the Iraqi people liked Saddam and did not want to be rid of him.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2003-04-12 03:55pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Not just government buildings I bet- a lot of ordinary homes have been broken into and looted as well.
Oh yes, and a lovely thing it is - The looting of the residences of Ba'ath party loyalists is utterly deserved and perfectly appropriate. It also shows some revolutionary fervour which will show these people well in their new democracy

Maybe you might believe that the looting shows significance of a grand uprising on a profound democratic scale but it shows that some Iraqi cities are beginning to slip into lawlessness without any checks and balances.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-04-12 04:04pm

Yeah, those pictures were staged alright.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2003-04-12 04:12pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Well, considering that pretty much everyone is involved in the looting, I don't think they'd loot their own homes. In a city like Baghdad, though, the middle class is going to be entirely government workers and is probably going to get worked over thoroughly. They also deserve nothing less - It's minor functionaries like that who have been cataloging things like "number of gold teeth extracted and reprocessed" since mass killing became industrialized. Vive L'Mob!

So every middle class worker is a Saddam cronie?

So ordinary people deserve to have their possessions looted because as you say, one cannot hope to stop a mob?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-12 04:50pm

I'll wonder if that French military Guard has met up with any US Soldiers yet...

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-04-12 06:28pm

I believe they call this type of reasoning, conclusion driver logic.
The left is so against this whole war, that they are unwilling to believe their eyes.
Instead, they cry, setup!

Why is the idea of 1/3 or more Iraqis in Bagdad, hating Saddam, and welcoming Coalition forces so difficult to swallow?
That still leaves 1/3 liking him, and 1/3 going with the flow. That's 2/3 not wanting them there.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-04-12 06:33pm

I have also heared, repeatedly from hard core lefties, that the majority of the American public is againts the war. This too flies in the face of reality.
Typical hardcore lefties will say, "but no one I know is for the war".

Famous quote. "How could Richard Nixon have won the election, I don't know a single person that voted for him?!"

All my friends think so, therefor, everyone thinks so.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-04-12 06:48pm

Emperor Chrostas the Crue wrote:I have also heared, repeatedly from hard core lefties, that the majority of the American public is againts the war. This too flies in the face of reality.
Typical hardcore lefties will say, "but no one I know is for the war".

Famous quote. "How could Richard Nixon have won the election, I don't know a single person that voted for him?!"

All my friends think so, therefor, everyone thinks so.

According to polls, roughly 70% of America is in favor of the war. Before the war, according to polls, 40% were opposed totally, 35% in support, and 35% supported the war ONLY if the UN signed on. Either America has become lemming-like or one of the numbers is off.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-04-12 06:53pm

4 out of 5 people surveyed think the 5th is an idiot!