Students grilled by Secret Service about anti-Bush comments

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-11 12:18am

Is it the USSR over there yet?

OAKLAND (KRON) -- Some teachers in Oakland are rallying behind two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service. That followed remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The incident has many people angry.

For years the classroom has been the setting for the free expression of ideas, but two weeks ago certain ideas led to two students being taken out of class and grilled by the United States Secret Service.

It happened at Oakland High. The discussion was about the war in Iraq. That's when two students made comments about the President of the United States. While the exact wording is up for debate, the teacher didn't consider it mere criticism, but a direct threat and she called the Secret Service.

Teacher Cassie Lopez says, "They were so shaken up and afraid."

Now, other teachers are coming to the aid of the two students and crying foul.

"I would start with the teacher, she made a poor judgement," Lopez says.

Teacher Larry Felson says, "What we're concerned about is academic freedom and that students have the right to free expression in the classroom."

Even worse, they say, is the fact that the students were grilled by federal agents without legal counsel or their parents present, just the principal.

"When one of the students asked, 'do we have to talk now? Can we be silent? Can we get legal council?' they were told, 'we own you, you don't have any legal rights,'" Felson says.

"We don't want federal agents or police coming in our schools and interrogating our children at the whim of someone who has a hunch something might be wrong," Lopez says.

The union representing Oakland teachers requires that students be afforded legal counsel and parental guidance before they're interrogated by authorities. It's too late for the two involved in this incident, and teachers say it's something they'll carry with them for years.

"I tell you the looks on those childrens faces. I don't know if they'll say anything about anything ever again. Is that what we want? I don't think we want that," says Lopez.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-11 12:24am

I'd blame the moronic teacher, not the Secret Service.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-11 12:28am

While the exact wording is up for debate, the teacher didn't consider it mere criticism, but a direct threat and she called the Secret Service.

What were the remarks?
If not the exact wording, I'd like to know the gist of what was said before I comment.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-11 12:38am

Glocksman wrote:
What were the remarks?
If not the exact wording, I'd like to know the gist of what was said before I comment.

According to the article...

While the exact wording is up for debate

So we really don't know. Though I highly doubt anything they said would be justification, especially considering there just high school students.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-05-11 12:50am

Well something made the teacher think it was "threatening enough to call the SS, that to me says they were either saying something the teacher disagreed with about the war or probably something about removing Bush from office I'd bet he took it as refernce to assassination. It is illegal to speak of making an attempt on the presidents life, even if you are a high school kid that is full of shit or joking.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-11 12:51am

Though I highly doubt anything they said would be justification, especially considering there just high school students.

High school students are just as capable of violence as an adult.

My reason for wanting to know what was said is because if they did utter a direct threat against the President's life, that's been sufficient justification for at least 3 decades under the law for the SS to speak to the person uttering the threat.

In other words, this isn't a recent development ushered in by bin-Ashcroft.

If the statements were mere criticism of GWB, then I'd be as outraged as some of the teachers at the schoool are. If they did utter threats against the president, the SS has the duty to investigate the threats once they are reported and my sense of outrage is dimmed as free speech does not cover threatening someone's life.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-11 12:56am

Glocksman wrote:
High school students are just as capable of violence as an adult.

Agreed, but...

If the statements were mere criticism of GWB, then I'd be as outraged as some of the teachers at the schoool are.

I think that's more likely. I've run into allot of anti Bush zealots at school but I can't recall any actually threatening him.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-11 01:32am

Of course, the atrocious part is that the students were denied the right to a legal counsel. Were I running the show I'd make an example out of those goon ASAP.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-05-11 01:33am

A) This teacher is a moron, grade A certified and should be removed from that classroom as soon as possible. Granted, making threatening comments about the President is serious business, but calling the Secret Service down on two HS goofballs is like driving penny nails with a 20lb sledge. She had an opportunity to steer a discussion into the morality of assassination(if that is what was said or implied) and its effects on both world ands US history, along with discussing the VERY dim view of Presidential death threats that the Secret Service takes. All of which should have been sufficient on her part to end that chapter of the day.

B) The Secret Service, takes any and all threats to the President seriously, and will rabidly run down any and everyone who makes a threat wether its credible or not. They refuse to gamble on the Presidents life in any way. Send a threatening letter or e-mail to the White House, a day later you will have a platoon of Virginia Farm Boys tossing your shit and grilling you like a cheese sandwhich! Talk about offing the President, and someone reports you to them, they will shortly be talking to you and showing you the error of your ways.

Now , don't think Im condoning the treatment of these two boys as commendable, I feel the Agents in question over reacted. Once they saw it was just a couple of teenaged kids , a lecture and a steely gaze would have been plenty.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-05-11 02:09am

Now , don't think Im condoning the treatment of these two boys as commendable, I feel the Agents in question over reacted. Once they saw it was just a couple of teenaged kids , a lecture and a steely gaze would have been plenty.

For all we know, that's what happened. The article made no mention of any arrests or charges being filed.

From the article:

"When one of the students asked, 'do we have to talk now? Can we be silent? Can we get legal council?' they were told, 'we own you, you don't have any legal rights,'" Felson says.

How does this Felson guy know what went on? He wasn't even present in the room when the questioning took place. Did the students tell him that's what was said? Did the principal?

If the account is true, the agents were unprofessional in their conduct and should be reprimanded for it. However, a secondhand report from a teacher who doesn't like the fact that the SS came into the school to begin with falls short of irrefutable proof of misconduct.

The principal was present. If there was misconduct on the part of the SS and the students pursue it, he can testify as to the accuracy of their accounts of what was said. Or he could file a complaint himself.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-05-11 02:44am

I was just wondering why guys in black suits and swastickas were working for the bush administration. Oh wait the crazy liberials were right?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-11 05:39am

Was I the only one that thought of the Nazi SS when I saw this?

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-11 05:59am

Gandalf wrote:Was I the only one that thought of the Nazi SS when I saw this?

I thought Secret Service wouldn't fit, but I just checked it and it did, so I changed it. Wasn't comparing them to Nazis though. They were a bunch of hatfuckers in this case though.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-11 08:34am

Vympel wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Was I the only one that thought of the Nazi SS when I saw this?
I thought Secret Service wouldn't fit, but I just checked it and it did, so I changed it. Wasn't comparing them to Nazis though. They were a bunch of hatfuckers in this case though.

You can compare them to Nazis because thats what they are,federal agents think they are above the law.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-05-11 11:09am

Glocksman wrote:
Though I highly doubt anything they said would be justification, especially considering there just high school students.
High school students are just as capable of violence as an adult.

My reason for wanting to know what was said is because if they did utter a direct threat against the President's life, that's been sufficient justification for at least 3 decades under the law for the SS to speak to the person uttering the threat.

In other words, this isn't a recent development ushered in by bin-Ashcroft.

If the statements were mere criticism of GWB, then I'd be as outraged as some of the teachers at the schoool are. If they did utter threats against the president, the SS has the duty to investigate the threats once they are reported and my sense of outrage is dimmed as free speech does not cover threatening someone's life.

yeah, thats my line of thinking.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-05-11 11:58am

Well lets see two students was questioned about threatening the PotUS, a crime that it is the SS duty to investigate. Nothing seem to have resulted from that hearing...

Compare that to the likely response in the late Third Reich.

Students arrested for threatening der Führer and tortured untill they name their co-conspiritors, family & friends, and then either shot in a basement somewhere or put on trial before being shot for PR purposes. Teachers squaking in outrage either fired if they are lucky or sent to a KZ camp which is more likely.

If you can't tell the difference between the US SS and the Nazi SS you need stronger glasses.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-11 01:02pm

What the fuck?

*sings*
America, America... Land of the freee...

Seriously, talking about killing the president is now a cause for an interrogation by the goons? The writer of Air Force 1 had better watch out.

Or even better, talking about removing him from office?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-05-11 01:26pm

Gandalf wrote:Was I the only one that thought of the Nazi SS when I saw this?

did you read what I wrote?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-05-11 01:33pm

Hey, I have heard comedians make jokes about the chances of finding "White Sheets" in GWB's closet. When I was in school such tasteless but fully legal satire would have gotten you detenion at a minimum.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-11 02:03pm

NecronLord wrote:
Seriously, talking about killing the president is now a cause for an interrogation by the goons? The writer of Air Force 1 had better watch out.

That's been the case for decades. The secret service talks to a lot of people, but its very very rare for them to go any further and get charges filed.

ZShade · Post by **ZShade** » 2003-05-11 02:33pm

It happened to one of my history teachers in high school. One day, he told us about something he did several years prior. While in another school, he had been stupid enough to give his kids the assignment of figuring out how they would have killed Kennedy. And much to no one's surprise, the Secret Service popped up shortly thereafter and had a very long talk with him about why he did it, and why he'd never do it again. It was something he didn't hold a grudge about, he knew he was an idiot to do it.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-05-11 02:43pm

WTF?

Just how common an event is this?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-05-11 02:43pm

Allow me to say....bunch of stupid hatfuckers.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-05-11 05:04pm

I find this article fishy. The only names in it are teachers who are not involved with nor participated in the alledged situation in any way. The only account of what happened with the students while being 'questioned' by the Secret Service, is an account by one of the teachers who again was not there nor involved with the original problem.

I am some what disinclined to believe that anyone would allow the SS to grill a bunch of kids without proper supervision or notification of the parents to such a thing. The SS is not stupid and would not open themselves to such a huge legal problem as interogating kids without parents or legal aide.

Does anyone have a confirming article any where else?

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-05-11 05:23pm

CJvR wrote:Well lets see two students was questioned about threatening the PotUS, a crime that it is the SS duty to investigate. Nothing seem to have resulted from that hearing...

Compare that to the likely response in the late Third Reich.

Students arrested for threatening der Führer and tortured untill they name their co-conspiritors, family & friends, and then either shot in a basement somewhere or put on trial before being shot for PR purposes. Teachers squaking in outrage either fired if they are lucky or sent to a KZ camp which is more likely.

If you can't tell the difference between the US SS and the Nazi SS you need stronger glasses.

No you dont need stronger glasses, because you forgot one part

US SS: didnt allow for legal representation and thus acted above the law and violated due process

Nazi SS: wouldnt have allowed for legal represetnation and would have acted violating due process

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Students grilled by Secret Service about anti-Bush comments

Students grilled by Secret Service about anti-Bush comments

US SS vs Nazi SS...

Re: US SS vs Nazi SS...