Iraqi POWs mistreated and tortured.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-17 10:43am

Whats that I can smell over the jingoistic bullshit? Oh its just another double-standard, never mind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3034031.stm

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-05-17 12:02pm

No, I see serious but currently unsubstantiated allegations -- don't jump to conclusions.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 12:03pm

The testimony of 20 Iraqi soldiers? Surely, this is a reliable, objective source and this sort of thing must be occuring throughout the entire U.S. military.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-05-17 12:45pm

Let's see what the Red Cross says first.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-05-17 01:04pm

Yeah really objective from these damn group like amnesty,when allied forces soldiers were tortured they say its part of war but if an Iraqi an enemy soldier or even a terrorist who`s supposedly being tortured then its unaceptable.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-17 04:40pm

So the jest of this article is that something might have happened but we don't actually know a single thing.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-05-17 07:01pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:So the jest of this article is that something might have happened but we don't actually know a single thing.

And that makes it a jest, indeed.

*grins*

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-17 07:11pm

weemadando wrote:Whats that I can smell over the jingoistic bullshit? Oh its just another double-standard, never mind.

Ooooh Ahhh.

We don't know anything for sure and roughing up and beating some POWs is tantamount to mass-executions, public gassing, and torturing political prisioners to death?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-17 07:23pm

Whats that I can smell over the jingoistic bullshit?

...the sweet, putrid stench of alarmist bullshit, mayhaps?

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-17 07:46pm

HemlockGrey wrote:
Whats that I can smell over the jingoistic bullshit?

...the sweet, putrid stench of alarmist bullshit, mayhaps?

Alarmist or not, these types of things do need to be investigated. First of all, I don't know who was saying that the torturing of Allied prisoners is any different from the torturing of Iraqi preisoners. Both are sickening, and need to be investigated.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Ooooh Ahhh.

We don't know anything for sure and roughing up and beating some POWs is tantamount to mass-executions, public gassing, and torturing political prisioners to death?

If you feel that since Saddam hurt his own people, that we have the same right to hurt his people, then you are a disturbing individual indeed. The "eye-for-an-eye" justice system hasnt been government sanctioned in the history of the United States, so I don't know why it would be now.[/quote]

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 07:52pm

If you feel that since Saddam hurt his own people, that we have the same right to hurt his people, then you are a disturbing individual indeed. The "eye-for-an-eye" justice system hasnt been government sanctioned in the history of the United States, so I don't know why it would be now.

That's a nice strawman. The thing is, civilians would have been guaranteed to die in far greater quantities under the Hussein regime. Less civilians dying in the course of an American invasion is the lesser evil in this situation.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-17 08:15pm

Durran Korr wrote:
If you feel that since Saddam hurt his own people, that we have the same right to hurt his people, then you are a disturbing individual indeed. The "eye-for-an-eye" justice system hasnt been government sanctioned in the history of the United States, so I don't know why it would be now.

That's a nice strawman. The thing is, civilians would have been guaranteed to die in far greater quantities under the Hussein regime. Less civilians dying in the course of an American invasion is the lesser evil in this situation.

Was I arguing against the invasion of Iraq? No. What I am saying is, once the prisoners are captured, we don't have any more right to legally torture them than Saddam did to torture his own people. The investigation and punishment of Allied soldiers who torture others is just as important as the upcoming punishment of the members of Saddam's regime who did the same.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-17 08:58pm

Durran Korr wrote:
If you feel that since Saddam hurt his own people, that we have the same right to hurt his people, then you are a disturbing individual indeed. The "eye-for-an-eye" justice system hasnt been government sanctioned in the history of the United States, so I don't know why it would be now.
That's a nice strawman. The thing is, civilians would have been guaranteed to die in far greater quantities under the Hussein regime. Less civilians dying in the course of an American invasion is the lesser evil in this situation.

[Durran] Hey Look! I can dodge the point! [/Durran]

Its not about whether or not the invasion was justified, neccessary - whatever. This is all about the massive double-standard where the torture and mistreatment of Iraqi POWs is accepted, but do it to an American POW and well...

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-17 09:03pm

weemadando wrote:Its not about whether or not the invasion was justified, neccessary - whatever. This is all about the massive double-standard where the torture and mistreatment of Iraqi POWs is accepted, but do it to an American POW and well...

Exactly. Just because we happen to be Americans does not mean we have any more right to commit crimes than any other country in the world.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 09:06pm

Misunderstood you. Sorry, Fremen.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-17 09:14pm

Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-05-17 09:16pm

Admiral Johnason wrote:Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.

What reason do they have to lie now?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-17 09:19pm

weemadando wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.
What reason do they have to lie now?

Think of it as a sort of spiting in your captor's face.

To put it simply, revenge for losing.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-17 09:21pm

weemadando wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.
What reason do they have to lie now?

Whether or not they have a reason to lie, or whether we can or cannot trust their testimonies isn't the issue. The issue is that allegations as serious as these must be investigated. False or not, sweeping these kinds of accusations "under the rug" would make us no better than Saddam.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 09:23pm

No one is suggesting that they shouldn't be investigated. Just that they are bogus.

The Albino Raven · Post by **The Albino Raven** » 2003-05-17 09:29pm

Durran Korr wrote:No one is suggesting that they shouldn't be investigated. Just that they are bogus.

Original Article wrote:An Amnesty spokeswoman told BBC News Online the investigations into the treatment of PoWs were "at a very early stage".

Can't really tell if they are bogus or not yet. The article is a bit premature in my opinion, seeing as how not enough evidence has been looked at. Still, until we find out whether the accusations have grounds or not, we can't simply accuse possible torture victims of being vengeful storytellers.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 09:32pm

weemadando wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.
What reason do they have to lie now?

Because they hate America. Duh.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-17 09:34pm

Durran Korr wrote:
weemadando wrote:
Admiral Johnason wrote:Can we really trust their testomonies? They have been raised in a world filled with propronganda and could be trying to bring aid to their cause.
What reason do they have to lie now?
Because they hate America. Duh.

That's what I said. Also, they may want some attention.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-05-17 09:36pm

Incidentally, why did that Belgian swine who is attempting to try America for war crimes lie about the army killing civilians with an "energy weapon"? People on all sides who believe in a cause are often willing to lie to advance it. This is nothing hard to believe.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-05-17 09:47pm

So Belgium wants some of this now?

*Theme from Longest Day starts playing. US war machine gets ready for a war in Europe just to shut those pansies up!*

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Iraqi POWs mistreated and tortured.

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