Why are the soldiers complaining?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-08-11 12:41am

What's with the constant bitching about 'long deployment'? They signed up for the Army! This is Army! The US-fucking-ARMY, for Chrissakes, not a fucking circus act! If you didn't want to be deployed to warzones for long periods of time, why did you SIGN UP FOR THE FUCKING ARMY?

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-08-11 12:43am

HemlockGrey wrote:What's with the constant bitching about 'long deployment'? They signed up for the Army! This is Army! The US-fucking-ARMY, for Chrissakes, not a fucking circus act! If you didn't want to be deployed to warzones for long periods of time, why did you SIGN UP FOR THE FUCKING ARMY?

Probably because they had been told earlier that they'd be going home sooner. If they'd all been told in advance that their tour would be this long, they would probably not be as bitter about it.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-08-11 12:50am

If they where told you will be home in 6 months, then 9 months, then 12 months, and so on, bitching is justified. However, I do agree some people seem to not quite understand what invading, occupying, and rebuilding Iraq would entail.

They had a local reservists mom bitching on TV cause her son has been in Iraq for 3 months. She wants him home now the war is over. WTF? You didnt turn down that college money now did you? Guess what, he should expect a minimum of a year away. We are at war after all arent we?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-11 02:41am

Grognard:

1. ultra-hardcore wargamer (wargames - Advanced Squad Leader, Combat Mission, etc) Comes from French word that means "grumbler"

"Bob the Grognard likes to check his back yard for good hull-down spots for his imaginary tank"

2. Term Napoleon used to describe all Non Commissioned Officers.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-08-11 03:04am

Both Mike and our resident Jawa are correct. Some soldiers are told by their leadership that they should be returning at a fixed time. That is generally a bad idea, as such fixed redeployment timelines are rare, but soldiers are people like anyone else, and all people crave some sort of predictability. Thus we see soldiers being told to expect that which does not materialize, and that has consequences on morale.

Lucius Licinius Lucullus · Post by **Lucius Licinius Lucullus** » 2003-08-11 06:53am

Soldiers has since the beginning of time complained about anything, why should the US Army be any different?

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-08-11 07:06am

HemlockGrey wrote:What's with the constant bitching about 'long deployment'? They signed up for the Army! This is Army! The US-fucking-ARMY, for Chrissakes, not a fucking circus act! If you didn't want to be deployed to warzones for long periods of time, why did you SIGN UP FOR THE FUCKING ARMY?

What? So are soldiers not allowed to have opinions now? That's a rather facist attitude.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-08-11 11:56am

I would like to add that a lot of people join the military for a job or for training. They probably expect to be stationed in places away from the states for long periods of time, and I'm sure that a lot fewer of them would be bitching about long deployments if this was percieved as a battle for the survival of the US.

While some people might be able to make a case that it is a battle for survival I doubt you'd be able to convince the soldiers who have been in the desert for awhile. I also think a lot fewer people in the military are into the type of duties they have now as an occupying force than they are into the "kick ass and take names" portion of their service. They also have to be under a lot of stress because of the irregular warfare that is going on. So I can't blame them for wanting to go home, especially given the leaked return dates that never came.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-08-11 12:09pm

To me it also seems that the Air Force and Army have had to deploy a lot more since the first Gulf War than they did previous to that.

Both have always had forward duty stations and bases outside of the US but I'm talking about real deployments. In the Navy you expect that about every year to year and a half your ship will deploy for at least 6 months.

I don't remember the Army and Airforce doing that on such a regular basis. They seem to be doing so much more often. Some of it was because of the enforced no-fly zones over Iraq (for the Air Force) but look at all the little hot spots the Army has been getting sent to. Professional or not I doubt everyone has been enthusiastic about many of the missions the military has been sent on in the last 10 years.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-08-11 01:02pm

Actually I think the reports overexaggerate the situation. I have no doubt that moms and wives are bithcing up a storm about their men. That being said, most military people bitch about everything and everywhere. All it takes is a reporter to here a soldier bitch and booom he's got a story of epic proportions.

There are issues that need to be adressed, mostly the reservists, but for the most part I think we are hearing the same complaints that every military man has bitched about for thousands of years.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-11 01:06pm

Speaking of moms bitching, there was one mom complaining bitterly right before the war started that her son had joined the Marines to pay for his education not to go to war and this was unfair. Rarely have I wanted to reach into a TV and slap someone as bad as that instance.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-08-11 01:12pm

Stravo wrote:Speaking of moms bitching, there was one mom complaining bitterly right before the war started that her son had joined the Marines to pay for his education not to go to war and this was unfair. Rarely have I wanted to reach into a TV and slap someone as bad as that instance.

I got your six on that. Nothing worse than an overpertective mom spewing bull shit and making a fool of herself and her kid on TV. If you take the money, you take the posibility of a deployment. End of story.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-08-11 01:13pm

Well there's bitching about going home, and there's bitching of the "what the hell are we doing here" variety

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-08-11 09:16pm

They're complainging because they're people, and people like to complain more than almost anything.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-08-11 11:02pm

Well, let's face it: you're stranded in a foreign country, you've got no ticket home, and everyone seems to hate you. Regardless of what you signed up for or why you joined up, there's not a whole lot you can do BUT complain. I mean, it's not like they could leave you there any longer (ignoring, of course, the fact they could).

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-08-12 01:26am

Being a soldier is about more than simply following orders like a mindless automaton. It's about serving a higher cause. The protection of the US Constitution, or national defense (like actually defending from real threats) for instance. When that cause is lost, where does that leave someone who doesn't know why they're risking themselves? I hate to say it, but I Iraq didn't have nukes pointed at us or anything and I'm very skeptical about the whole WMD thing.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-08-12 02:14am

Remember orders go down the chain of command, complaints go up it.-SPR

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-08-12 02:29am

Yuri Prime wrote:Being a soldier is about more than simply following orders like a mindless automaton. It's about serving a higher cause. The protection of the US Constitution, or national defense (like actually defending from real threats) for instance. When that cause is lost, where does that leave someone who doesn't know why they're risking themselves? I hate to say it, but I Iraq didn't have nukes pointed at us or anything and I'm very skeptical about the whole WMD thing.

Personally I think war is what serves a higher cause and an army is an instrument in fulfilling that cause, but that's just me.

The people over there can complain all they want, as long as they don't neglect their jobs when they're called for.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-08-12 05:45am

Shinova wrote:Personally I think war is what serves a higher cause and an army is an instrument in fulfilling that cause, but that's just me.

The people over there can complain all they want, as long as they don't neglect their jobs when they're called for.

War can serve a higher cause, but this is not automatically given, even when it is the US going to war. An army is an instrument of war, and it will serve to fulfill the cause that war serves, whether the cause is good (higher) or not.

On a general note, I think jegs2, Tsyroc, Knife, Jawa and Mike have addressed the issue more than adequately that there shouldn't be any more questions about it. Hemlock, you might want to be a little bit more respectful of the people who actually are on the ground in Iraq and elsewhere on long deployments. What they're doing there isn't easy, and they don't deserve to be heaped with petulant shit like yours on top of it, whether one supports their being there in the first place or not.

Edi

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-08-12 05:50am

Really, you guys should just be happy that they're doing their jobs. They're people too. The oath they take says they will follow orders. It doesn't say that they have to like them and never say a word against them. You guys should be grateful for what they've done instead of complaining that they're not the uber-hardasses that you were hoping for.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-08-12 11:52am

Knife wrote:
Stravo wrote:Speaking of moms bitching, there was one mom complaining bitterly right before the war started that her son had joined the Marines to pay for his education not to go to war and this was unfair. Rarely have I wanted to reach into a TV and slap someone as bad as that instance.
I got your six on that. Nothing worse than an overpertective mom spewing bull shit and making a fool of herself and her kid on TV. If you take the money, you take the posibility of a deployment. End of story.

How about a Mom writting to the admiral in charge of your carrier battle group?

That happened to a friend of mine. His mother wrote the admiral to complain about how her son qualified for food stamps because he was an E-4 with a wife and kid. You could see the shit roll down hill on that one.

Everyone was jumping through hoops to see about getting this guy into an officer program so he could make more money. He flirted with the idea briefly and then stayed where he was. He did make second class but then he had another kid

They really should have classes on finances while you are in boot. Explain to people that the lower enlisted ranks are not ideally suited to supporting a family.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-08-12 12:45pm

Tsyroc wrote: How about a Mom writting to the admiral in charge of your carrier battle group? That happened to a friend of mine. His mother wrote the admiral to complain about how her son qualified for food stamps because he was an E-4 with a wife and kid. You could see the shit roll down hill on that one. Everyone was jumping through hoops to see about getting this guy into an officer program so he could make more money. He flirted with the idea briefly and then stayed where he was. He did make second class but then he had another kid They really should have classes on finances while you are in boot. Explain to people that the lower enlisted ranks are not ideally suited to supporting a family.

I hear that. When I was a boot just out of bootcamp, they made me take personal finance classes. That did not stop alot of idiots from going bankrupt or flushing a shit load of cash down the toliet but what are ya going to do.

And if I was that E4 I would have bitch slapped my mom the next time I went home, if I ever went home at all after that. Though, thinking upon it, the kid was probably a momma's boy and mom one of those super controlling types. Who in their right mind writtes an admiral on your son's behalf.

Thats like your mom writting a letter to your companies CEO about your wages and the possibility of a raise.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-08-12 01:03pm

Knife wrote: I hear that. When I was a boot just out of bootcamp, they made me take personal finance classes. That did not stop alot of idiots from going bankrupt or flushing a shit load of cash down the toliet but what are ya going to do.

And if I was that E4 I would have bitch slapped my mom the next time I went home, if I ever went home at all after that. Though, thinking upon it, the kid was probably a momma's boy and mom one of those super controlling types. Who in their right mind writtes an admiral on your son's behalf. Thats like your mom writting a letter to your companies CEO about your wages and the possibility of a raise.

I wonder if jegs2 would be interested to know that the guy I mentiond was from Alabama and a big Crimson Tide fan?

He was really embarassed that his mom did that but he made the best of the situation and checked out the possibilities anyway. I think that it eventually blew over for him.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-08-13 12:27am

If you are an E-1 to E-4 you are probably between 17 and what 23 ? I really wish people would point out, you should'nt have kids at that age and wage. If you had a similar paying job in the corporate world you'd still need food stamps but somehow being in the military is different. In either case the individual is not being responsible, like Knife said a lot of people flush money down the toilet.

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-08-13 09:55pm

HemlockGrey wrote:What's with the constant bitching about 'long deployment'? They signed up for the Army! This is Army! The US-fucking-ARMY, for Chrissakes, not a fucking circus act! If you didn't want to be deployed to warzones for long periods of time, why did you SIGN UP FOR THE FUCKING ARMY?

Hmmm...when I was in the Navy they said a bitching sailor was a happy sailor.

Go figure..........

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