How to balance the budget and pay off the national Debt

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-14 07:29pm

Simply sell most of the land the US Government owns.

The US Government owns 1/3rd of all the land in the United States.

If you sold most of that, you'd be able to pay off most of the
National Debt, which would allow you to instantly balance the federal
budget, which would be balanced if it wasn't for the huge amount of
interest the government has to pay the Federal Reserve and other
banks who have the interest on the National Debt.

Of course, this would be putting all that land out of the hands of the
benevolent government and into the hands of greedy land owners
and corporations, which is why it will never happen as long as
Hell is hot.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-14 07:33pm

Sell off abandoned military bases in Europe, Asia, and Saudi Arabia after disengagement from those regions, as well.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-14 07:37pm

Land is a valuable asset. You'd be getting an influx of money at the cost of compromising the future. Selling rentable government property is a cheap poor way of getting out of a crisis.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-14 07:41pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:Land is a valuable asset. You'd be getting an influx of money at the cost of compromising the future. Selling rentable government property is a cheap poor way of getting out of a crisis.

Tell me Orlick, why is it necessary for the US Government to own
1/3rd of all the land in the United States (and thus most of the American
West)?

This isn't Europe with it's tight confines, this is the wide open plains stretching
for hundreds of miles.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-14 07:43pm

Colonel Olrik wrote:Land is a valuable asset. You'd be getting an influx of money at the cost of compromising the future. Selling rentable government property is a cheap poor way of getting out of a crisis.

So much of it isn't at use, though. Not paying off the national debt, however, would be a far more serious danger to future generations than the federal government not being able to continue to protect a land area larger than most European countries.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-09-14 07:46pm

Selling the piece of land around Groom Lake would definitely help.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-14 07:47pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Selling the piece of land around Groom Lake would definitely help.

Does that include Flying Saucers in the land deal?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-09-14 07:50pm

Shhh. *takes tinfoil hat off Shep's head* Now run along.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-14 07:53pm

Why the hell does the Federal Government own that much land in the first place?

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-09-14 08:04pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:Why the hell does the Federal Government own that much land in the first place?

--The gov. never sold it, Duh!
-BTW, who are you going to sell this land too (i.e., who has 6 trillion dollars to burn).
-Since the citizens of the U.S. own this land, that means I get to use large parts of it so I'm not going to support any politician who tries to sell it all off.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-14 08:06pm

-Since the citizens of the U.S. own this land, that means I get to use large parts of it so I'm not going to support any politician who tries to sell it all off.

Most of the land in question isn't being used for anything by anyone. You really don't get anything out of it.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-09-14 08:10pm

Durran Korr wrote:
-Since the citizens of the U.S. own this land, that means I get to use large parts of it so I'm not going to support any politician who tries to sell it all off.
Most of the land in question isn't being used for anything by anyone. You really don't get anything out of it.

--Where do you think all that wilderness people use for hiking, camping, etc. comes from? Private citizens? Do you seriously think we could sustain the western ecosystems after people have fenced off every square mile, clear cut half our forests, and strip mined anything that will generate cash?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-09-14 08:13pm

MKSheppard wrote: Tell me Orlick, why is it necessary for the US Government to own
1/3rd of all the land in the United States (and thus most of the American
West)?.

It's OLRIK

That's it! I'm going to make mistaking my name a bannable offense.

I don't know. Who would buy it, and for what reason? Would you be able to make sizeable money out of it or would it be sold on sale?

Anyway, the question is not about being necessary, but the fact that selling it is a one shot deal and will be used to pay debts resulting of mistakes and mismanagement, always a bad deal. But sometimes it is necessary, and the U.S national debt is indeed endangering your future.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-14 08:26pm

Here's a map of the federal domain maintained by the BLM. I'm not sure what the current fair market value of the land is, but it probably is in the trillions. It includes some of that yummy oil-rich land in ANWR.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-14 08:38pm

I highly doubt there would be buyers for all that land. Among that land is over 90% of the state of Nevada, who's going to want that with all its wonderful nuclear weapons test sites and bombing ranges? Hell when the state asked to get control of more of its land it soon got some, and absolutely nothing was done with it.

The land might be worth a vast amount in theory, but that doesn't matter if there is no buyer.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-09-14 08:48pm

Myself, I support invading, pillaging, and looting Europe, then paying off the national debt through ransoms, monetary demands, and the sale of priceless historical artifacts

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-15 01:26am

Precisely how is the value of this land estimated? Since nobody would ever buy it at the stated prices, I am curious where the valuation comes from.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-15 01:34am

Durran Korr wrote: Here's a map of the federal domain maintained by the BLM.

Actually, that's inaccurate. BLM is only 35% of all fed land IIRC.

http://www.unl.edu/nac/conservation/atl ... ership.gif

Percent of Land in Federal Ownership, 1997

Though shall not post big images.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-15 01:35am

Darth Wong wrote:Precisely how is the value of this land estimated? Since nobody would ever buy it at the stated prices, I am curious where the valuation comes from.

Yes, who is interested in land with piles of mining tailings in Nevada?

How about responsible spending for a change? Selling the land wont change the behavior that lead to the debt in the first place.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-09-15 01:36am

Darth Wong wrote:Precisely how is the value of this land estimated? Since nobody would ever buy it at the stated prices, I am curious where the valuation comes from.

Statistical analysis, I imagine. Or maybe Voola the Gypsy Princess asked her crystal ball.

You'll never in a million years sell a lot of that land. Much of it is as totally worthless as real estate can get while still having breathable air. However, there's a lot of grazing and timber land currently being mismanaged into the ground by the Federal government that would probably be better off in private hands (ranchers won't let their herds overgraze their own land because it will destroy its value, but when they lease the rights to it, any grass that goes uneaten, even in marginal areas, is wasted money--same with lumber companies and their own forests vs. Federal forests).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-15 01:46am

Darth Wong wrote:Precisely how is the value of this land estimated? Since nobody would ever buy it at the stated prices, I am curious where the valuation comes from.

I think its just based on comparisons to similar land, which has sold.

Stupid method really, the bombing range on Vieques is a good example of what it can lead to. The local population made a big ideal about how valuable the land would be during there campaign to get the range closed, but ignored the fact no one could or would want to buy it because the UXO sweep would take several decades. Combine that with the closing of the islands military base and its just amazing how badly they screwed themselves based on such paper projections.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-09-15 01:46am

Some of government land are of the likes of Yosemite, Yellowstone, etc.

Would probably not be a good idea to sell those particular ones.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-15 01:51am

More base closures would certainly help, though it wouldn't be much of a dent.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-15 02:03am

Let's not forget that the federal lands that are really worth something, those in urban areas like mine. Often have huge clean up issues to be solved before hand. Decades of dumping paint, solvents, etc on site. Asbestos, unexploded ordanance, and so on.

Clean up costs for high value real estate like Fort Ord and Alameda Naval Station are large enough to keep those properties vacant even in an area where large spaces such as that have developers frothing at the mouth.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-15 02:11am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Let's not forget that the federal lands that are really worth something, those in urban areas like mine. Often have huge clean up issues to be solved before hand. Decades of dumping paint, solvents, etc on site. Asbestos, unexploded ordanance, and so on.

Clean up costs for high value real estate like Fort Ord and Alameda Naval Station are large enough to keep those properties vacant even in an area where large spaces such as that have developers frothing at the mouth.

Yup, pretty much any large sized military base would be impossible to resell under current laws and regulations, at least not without dumping in more money then the land would be worth when the task was done. Sweeping for UXO for example basically requires that a highly trained specialist go over every inch by hand a couple times. And the personal who can do that sort of thing are all needed in places like Afganistan and Iraq.

The direct savings in operating costs would be a minor drop in the bucket.