Post-WWII reconstruction versus Iraq.

[Trytostaydead]

I don't know too much about the reconstructive efforts in Germany and Japan, but I do know they probably proceeded a whole lot differently than Iraq.

So what's the deal? Is it because Iraq has such a different culture system than ours? That there was no formal "surrender?" What's the difference?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I don't know too much about the reconstructive efforts in Germany and Japan, but I do know they probably proceeded a whole lot differently than Iraq.

So what's the deal? Is it because Iraq has such a different culture system than ours? That there was no formal "surrender?" What's the difference?

They didn't. We have actually put more money into Iraq at an earlier date, and we're suffering about the same amount of violence. Actually, the reconstruction efforts in Europe suffered some of the same scathing publicity at the same times, too--just less of it.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Lots of differences the question is to determine which are actually important.

1. Japan and Germany both had homogeneous populations and existed as "natural" states for a long time. Iraq is filled with different groups who were forced to live together cause Sadam could keep a lid on tensions.

2. Boots on the ground. High tech weapons dont count for much when you need guys to guard a market from dudes with guns. In both Japan and Germany we had huge numbers of people to be on the ground.

3. Japan was ordered to co-operate by the Emperor, we let him keep his post even if it was ceremonial. That helped a whole lot there.

4. Germany and Japan had both fought long wars with the US. We invaded Iraq out of the blue so to speak. Some of the citizens there dont view it as "well, we lost the war" but as "they invaded us, the war just started."

5. I think the Bush administration vastly underestimated the conditions in Iraq after the fall of Sadam. This includeds the condition of the infrastructure, oil fields, etc.

6. I think also all the bad things that went wrong with the post WW2 occupation of Iraq and Germany get lost in the enourmous amount of things that went right.


This are things that come to mind at first, I cant say Im the expert, this is just what I believe are reasons why things are not hunkey-dorey like they lead us to believe would happen.

[EmperorSolo51]

3. Japan was ordered to co-operate by the Emperor, we let him keep his post even if it was ceremonial. That helped a whole lot there.

It helped on the Home Islands yes, but on Former Japanese posessions no. Even after the Broadcast of surrender had taken place, there large numbers of Japanese who refused to surrender and activly enagaged US and indiginous forces in medium-scale engagements throughout the late 1940's and the 1950's. There were some who continued to fight until the 1970s!

[TrailerParkJawa]

3. Japan was ordered to co-operate by the Emperor, we let him keep his post even if it was ceremonial. That helped a whole lot there.

It helped on the Home Islands yes, but on Former Japanese posessions no. Even after the Broadcast of surrender had taken place, there large numbers of Japanese who refused to surrender and activly enagaged US and indiginous forces in medium-scale engagements throughout the late 1940's and the 1950's. There were some who continued to fight until the 1970s!

The numbers were incredibly small. Especially in the 70's. That crazy mofo in the Phillipines was a moron yet came home a hero. The basic point is, there is no leader to ask the Iraqi's to calm the fuck down. Even if there was, only people of the same tribe would care.

[Sea Skimmer]

Germany and Japan had far heavier damage, and a populace thoroughly defeated and conquered. We didn't have nearly the problem with diehards, because Germany and Japan had largely mobilized them all and sent them off to die before hand. In the case of Japan those who hadn't yet been dealt with had the fight taken out of them by there own belief in the Emperor.

Because they had far more damage the rebuilding effort took into the 1960's and you could still find piles of rubble in German cities after that. It might have gone faster if the rest of the world had had more interest in helping the two nations along, but really any comparison to Iraq is somewhat pointless. While some areas of Basra got leveled by Iran for the most part it is point targets that got hit and scattered points, if important ones, that need repairs or total rebuilding. Baghdad doesn't have hundreds of blocks with nothing but partial shells of outer walls standing.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Data on how our effort compares with the occupation of Germany:

Fables of Reconstruction from Berlin to Baghdad.

Fixing Germany wasn't easy either.

Bigger than Marshall

And, for a historical comparison on the situation:

Historical speech by Allen W. Dulles.

And to show what some people thought of the situation in Europe after the war was over:

Americans are losing the Victory in Europe. Page One.

- Page one, by John dos Passos.

Americans are losing the Victory in Europe. Page Two.

- Page two, by John dos Passos.