Howie 'Sawdust' Dean finds Jesus!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-12-26 10:13am

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031 ... -8169r.htm

Dean touts a 'Jesus strategy'

From combined dispatches

MANCHESTER, N.H. — Howard B. Dean, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination who had said little about the role of religion in politics, yesterday told the Boston Globe that he is a committed follower of Jesus Christ and suggested that this would be a winning campaign issue.

Mr. Dean said he will start mentioning God and Christ as the campaign moves into the South. After the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 19 and the New Hampshire primary a week later, South Carolina and five other states — Oklahoma, Arizona, Delaware, Missouri and New Mexico — will hold primaries on Feb. 3. The South Carolina primary, the first test in the Deep South where history suggests that the Democratic candidate must perform well if he is to win the presidency, is particularly important.

The 55-year-old physician, who is a member of the Congregationalist Church, said he does not attend church often, but prays daily. His wife is Jewish, and their two children adopted the Jewish faith.

Jesus is an important influence in his life, he told the Globe interviewer, and he probably will talk to voters about how Jesus has served as a "model" for him.

"Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind," he said. "He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. ... He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years."

An ABC/Washington Post poll released this week showed that 46 percent of Southerners say a president should rely on his religious beliefs in making policy decisions, compared with 28 percent in the East and 40 percent in the rest of the nation.

The Globe reported that Mr. Dean has talked of his religious beliefs to one black congregation in South Carolina, where about half of the expected primary votes will be cast by blacks.

"In a rhythmic tone notably different from his usual stampede through policy points," the newspaper reported, the former Vermont governor said: "In this house of the Lord, we know that the power rests in God's hands and in Jesus' hands for helping us. But the power also is on this, God's earth. Remember Jesus said, 'Render unto God those things that are God's but unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's.' "

Mr. Dean continued: "In this political season, there is also other power. Not as important or as strong as the power of Jesus, but it's important power in the world of politics and the world of Caesar."

Mr. Dean's mother is a Roman Catholic, and he was raised in the Episcopal faith like his father, a warden in the Episcopal church that the family attended near their weekend home in East Hampton, N.Y. The son attended St. George's, a boarding school in Newport, R.I., where he went to church "literally every day and twice on Sunday."

"My father used to tell us how much strength he got from religion," he told the Globe, "but we didn't have Bible readings. There are traditions where people do that. We didn't. People in the Northeast don't talk about their religion. It's a very personal, private matter, and that's the tradition I was brought up in."

Mr. Dean's remarkably candid discussion of his religious faith, and the expected impact of a candidate's faith in Southern primaries, recalled his remarks earlier in the campaign that a Democratic candidate must campaign for the votes of Southerners "with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

He was harshly criticized for the remarks, which were interpreted in some quarters as endorsing the Confederate flag, and two days later, he apologized.

Other Democratic candidates have talked of their religious faith on the stump. Rep. Richard A. Gephardt, a Southern Baptist, has described the recovery of his son from a serious illness as "a gift of God." Sen. Joe Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew who will not campaign on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, scolded his rivals for forgetting "that faith was central to our founding and remains central to our national purposes." The Rev. Al Sharpton, who has pulled into a tie for second place in one South Carolina public-opinion poll, is an ordained Pentecostal minister and often campaigns in pulpits.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-26 10:46am

Welcome to the 19th century, America.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-12-26 11:02am

For a country not founded by religious nutcases,its turning into Fundieland real fast.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 11:45am

That is it, I am withdrawing my support from Dr. Dean. I had hoped e would be the one person who didnt pander to religion.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 12:13pm

Dear Dr. Dean,

My Name is Benjamin Allen. I am a 17 year old senior at Red Mountain High School in Mesa Arizona. I am(or at least was) a supporter of your campaign.

I should hope that my support for you has not been in vain. However, as an atheist, and a church/state seartion abolutist, I cannot help but be dismayed at your recent strategy of pandering to religious groups.

Your religious beliefs are your own, and I respect that. However, They should not become political tools. Jesus himself called religious panderers hypocrits.

Not only is this ethical, but it is also a legl issue as well. James Madison, the writer of the first amendment made it perfectly clear that such religious proclamations by politicians were not kosher.

I had hoped that you would be the one candidate in this election that would not bend over backwards to win over religious fundamentalists. I had hoped you may be the one candidate who actually cared about the fourteen percent of Americans who do not believe in God. But this rash of religious platitudes in your campaign stategy, as relayed to me by the Washington Times... Well Frankly Dr. Dean it makes me question where you stand on key issues like School Prayer, Ten Commandment displays, and the judeo christian takeover of the Grand Canyon National Park in my own home state(placing government sponsored bible verses along the canyon, such as passages from Psalms. And the Bush administration preventing the Park Rangers from publishing a rebuttal to creationism for use when they are confronted on tours).

Show me that you actually care Dr. Dean. Show me that unlike the other candidates, that you wont spit on the constitution when it doesnt suit your purposes.

Sincerely,
Ben Allen

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-26 01:05pm

Howard B. Dean, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination who had said little about the role of religion in politics, yesterday told the Boston Globe that he is a committed follower of Jesus Christ and suggested that this would be a winning campaign issue.

Good lord, did he actually say this? Has this man no political acumen? The Jesus bullshit probably would have gotten him some votes he wouldn't have otherwise gotten, but now that he's gone and announced that his belief in Jesus is just a winning political strategy and not a deep personal conviction or whatever the Christians need to hear from their candidates these days, he can kiss that shit goodbye.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-12-26 01:13pm

Alyrium wrote:Not only is this ethical

I hope you fixed that.

Onward, this would probably mean it wouldn't matter either way if Bush or Dean was elected.

~Jason

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 01:23pm

Yeah, it was fixed.

I think I find a candiate that may actually LIKE the establishment clause... but NOOOOO.

This is really starting to piss me off.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-26 01:48pm

Aly, get off your fucking soap box with your black and white bullshit. JFK was a practicing Catholic who in public strongly supported the separation of Church and State, and the Founding Fathers paid all kinds of lip service to Christianity in public while at the same time never really violating the establishment clause. You seem to be acting as if Howard Dean has already been elected to office and reinstated school prayer, abortion prohibition, and passed a ban on gay marriage just because he's spoken of religion favorably in public.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2003-12-26 01:48pm

Angst for a 17 year old isn't good....

Might turn you into a psychopath in short order. Besides, it's Christmas.... oops, excuse me, it's the winter holiday season. Have some fun. Come on, turn that frown upside down.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-26 01:52pm

Joe wrote:Aly, get off your fucking soap box with your black and white bullshit. JFK was a practicing Catholic who in public strongly supported the separation of Church and State, and the Founding Fathers paid all kinds of lip service to Christianity in public while at the same time never really violating the establishment clause. You seem to be acting as if Howard Dean has already been elected to office and reinstated school prayer, abortion prohibition, and passed a ban on gay marriage just because he's spoken of religion favorably in public.

You'll have to forgive me if I take this "don't be an alarmist; it's just public lip service" argument with a grain of salt, since the same thing was being said about George W. Bush when he was running for office.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-26 01:56pm

By whom?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 01:59pm

Joe wrote:Aly, get off your fucking soap box with your black and white bullshit. JFK was a practicing Catholic who in public strongly supported the separation of Church and State, and the Founding Fathers paid all kinds of lip service to Christianity in public while at the same time never really violating the establishment clause. You seem to be acting as if Howard Dean has already been elected to office and reinstated school prayer, abortion prohibition, and passed a ban on gay marriage just because he's spoken of religion favorably in public.

Look, I am trying not to be so... soap boxish. Yes, JFK was a practicing catholic, and he STILL championed the spearation of church and state.

I suppose my expctations of him have been shattered. I simply didnt expect that sort of pandering from him. He attacks Rev Falwall in one speach, and then goes on about Jesus in another. That does not sit well with me personally.

Let's take this quote...

"My father used to tell us how much strength he got from religion," he told the Globe, "but we didn't have Bible readings. There are traditions where people do that. We didn't. People in the Northeast don't talk about their religion. It's a very personal, private matter, and that's the tradition I was brought up in."

This is the way politicians should be, but, we have him making religious platitudes in the same article. That does not sit well with me.

The simple matter is, I had expected more of him. What I had expected, was that he would be as strong on these issues as he is on others. But if he is willing to pander to get votes, it makes me wonder what he will do to win popular support after the election.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 02:03pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Joe wrote:Aly, get off your fucking soap box with your black and white bullshit. JFK was a practicing Catholic who in public strongly supported the separation of Church and State, and the Founding Fathers paid all kinds of lip service to Christianity in public while at the same time never really violating the establishment clause. You seem to be acting as if Howard Dean has already been elected to office and reinstated school prayer, abortion prohibition, and passed a ban on gay marriage just because he's spoken of religion favorably in public.
You'll have to forgive me if I take this "don't be an alarmist; it's just public lip service" argument with a grain of salt, since the same thing was being said about George W. Bush when he was running for office.

And, look where that got us. Now we have a fundy creationist in high office who has been taking white out to the establishment clause.

In addition to having my expectations smashed, I am not taking my chances with any candidate that panders to religion.

Once the protection of the bill of rights are allowed to be nfringed, they serve as precedent for the next time someone wants to infringe upon them.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-26 02:04pm

I should also add that whoever made said argument about George W. Bush obviously wasn't paying attention, because in 2000 he had already been supporting faith-based charity initiatives in Texas for years and had announced his intent to carry his efforts over to the White House. Howard Dean hasn't (yes, I'm defending Dean now).

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-26 02:07pm

What really also gets me, I suppose, is that they avoid the issue in their campaigns. Dean's website doesnt mention it at all. This is also something disturbing. WHat he says, at this point is all I have to go on. And if religious pandering is what he is doing, it makes me wonder what he would do in office.

At least the founding fathers had a record. Jefferson disestablished the church of Virginia. Madison wrote the first amendment etc etc.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-12-26 02:55pm

An ABC/Washington Post poll released this week showed that 46 percent of Southerners say a president should rely on his religious beliefs in making policy decisions, compared with 28 percent in the East and 40 percent in the rest of the nation.

Scary.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-12-26 03:09pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
An ABC/Washington Post poll released this week showed that 46 percent of Southerners say a president should rely on his religious beliefs in making policy decisions, compared with 28 percent in the East and 40 percent in the rest of the nation.

Scary.

It would seem he is simply giving the people what they want, despite whatever long term damage it may do to the nation or its people,

good god man he is a politician, somebody should inform the public before it is to late.

If people in America were more secular this wouldn't be a problem however until they actually believe church and state should be separate then their elected representatives will represent their views in this area (this is one of the main pillars of representative government).

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-26 04:43pm

What about the Libertarians and the Greens? I don't think they boast of their religious devotion in order to get votes from fundamentalists.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-12-26 05:38pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:What about the Libertarians and the Greens? I don't think they boast of their religious devotion in order to get votes from fundamentalists.

[KODOS]"Go ahead, THROW your vote away!"[/KODOS]

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2003-12-26 08:04pm

Is a candidate speaking heavily in favor of religion a litmus test for many people here? BTW, I'm an atheist asking this, not a rabid fundamentalist.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-26 08:56pm

So he's a Christian and he's saying he's a Christian. Big fucking deal! Did you all think he was an atheist before or something?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-26 09:25pm

Andrew J. wrote:So he's a Christian and he's saying he's a Christian. Big fucking deal! Did you all think he was an atheist before or something?

I don't think you understand. The problem is that religion is invariably publicized during political campaigns. Up here in Canada, people generally don't talk about the religious beliefs of candidates (although I have to concede that the Reform party does this, which is one of the reasons they're considered rednecks and can't gain power outside of Alberta). Strangely enough, we prefer to talk about their policies.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-26 09:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:So he's a Christian and he's saying he's a Christian. Big fucking deal! Did you all think he was an atheist before or something?
I don't think you understand. The problem is that religion is invariably publicized during political campaigns. Up here in Canada, people generally don't talk about the religious beliefs of candidates (although I have to concede that the Reform party does this, which is one of the reasons they're considered rednecks and can't gain power outside of Alberta). Strangely enough, we prefer to talk about their policies.

Yeah, well, you're country's better than mine. I just have to live with the fact that here, even the best (viable) candidate has to yak about God all the time.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-12-26 10:39pm

That sucking noise you hear is coming from Dean's lips on Jesus's penis. What a terrible noise indeed.