Sheikh Al-Hilali also claims that Afghan Muslims preceded Captain Cook in his discovery of Australia:(11) "Australia is an old-new continent. The Europeans issued a false birth certificate for it when the British seafarer Captain James Cook reached it. However, Australia already had the most ancient race of men on the face of the earth - the Aborigine people... They continue to live their primitive lives to this very day.
"But when you become acquainted with their traditions among their tribes, you find that they have customs such as circumcision, marriage ceremonies, respect for tribal elders, and burial of the dead - all customs that show that they were connected to ancient Islamic culture before the Europeans set foot in Australia.
"That is, Islam had roots deep in the Australian soil and read the Qur'an and called to prayer before the bells of the churches rang in Australia. The best evidence of this is the hundreds of mosques in the center of Australia built by the Afghans. Some of them were destroyed, and others were turned into Australian archeological museums, and still others remained unharmed, and they bear a history that proves that Islam has roots and ancient connections to Australia.
"But because they did not have the proper conditions to continue to exist, such as schools, propagation of the religion, and connection to the Islamic world, the first generation of our Afghan ancestors dissolved...
"I visited the town of Alice Springs in central Australia, and found there a map [of Alice Springs] under the name Mecca. Alice Springs is surrounded by high black mountains, similar to the mountains of Mecca. Summer there lasts 10 months, and winter only two months. The temperature is above 50 degrees Celsius.
"There are several kinds of dates and palm trees there. We did not believe that dates could grow there. Now that we know the reason, we no longer wonder. We found that our ancestors the Afghans were among the first Muslims, and they settled this area and called it Mecca.
"The strange thing was that when our muezzin [who accompanied Sheikh Al-Hilali on his visit to Alice Springs] stood up to call for prayer, the old people of the town came out, and so did men and youths, and they looked different than the black Aborigines. They were a mixture of Afghan and Aborigine, as a result of marriages of Afghan men and Aborigine women. When the muezzin called 'Allahu Akbar,' they said, 'We have heard this song from our ancestors...' When they asked us 'What is this song you are singing?' we told them that this was an announcement of prayer time. When we asked them their names, they answered John, or Steve, but their names ended with Saraj Al-Din, Abdallah, or Muhammad..."
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This falls into the same category as the Vikings reaching Vinland and Zheng He or his contemporaries reaching California or South America. Even if they did, they changed nothing. No Chinese colonies, no lasting Viking settlement, no impression of Muslim authority in Australia.
This discovery, if it occured, is merely an interesting footnote to history and wholly irrelevant otherwise. It was the European explorers who truly opened up contact between the entire world and established global societies. The Afghans didn't establish any sort of enduring presence in Australia, so any such historical anecdote has no real significance. A few settlements that quickly died out do not matter in the grander scheme of things.
That said, Afghan seafarers? Where did this come from?
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So many people allegedly beat captain Cook here it's just crazy. The Chinese, Dutch, Aborigines etc.
It's not like you can miss us, big ass island.
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"But when you become acquainted with their traditions among their tribes, you find that they have customs such as circumcision, marriage ceremonies, respect for tribal elders, and burial of the dead - all customs that show that they were connected to ancient Islamic culture before the Europeans set foot in Australia.
Why is my bullshit detector going crazy at this? I'd like to know why the fuck anyone should give a shit as well. (I like how the Aboriginies were so obviously influenced by Islamic culture, explaining such things as burial rights and other ceremonies. I mean otherwise they'd just be savages, right? It's not like anyone else observes these functions, whether it be in a primitive society or a modern one)
I just thought it was weird. And no, you shouldn't give a shit about it.
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It's simply bullshit. Australia has been settled for tens of thousands of years--LONG before Islam was founded. Archeaological and genetic data seems to indicate that aboriginees are the descendents of black africans, possibly from Central East Africa, but that the two populations have been separated for a LONG time.
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BTW, there were some important discoveries made by Muslim sea farers. The fact that this guy has to resort to claiming that Australia was discovered by them, and that aboriginees are descendants of them, indicates piss-poor research on his part. Additionally, I have never heard of an Afghan sailor in either an historical or a modern context (although I'm sure they now exist).
In short: the guy's full of shit.
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Master of Ossus wrote:BTW, there were some important discoveries made by Muslim sea farers. The fact that this guy has to resort to claiming that Australia was discovered by them, and that aboriginees are descendants of them,
Umm.. He's not saying that aboriginees descended from them. He's saying that a few Afgahns intermarried with the natives.
Master of Ossus wrote:indicates piss-poor research on his part. Additionally, I have never heard of an Afghan sailor in either an historical or a modern context (although I'm sure they now exist).
Master of Ossus wrote:BTW, there were some important discoveries made by Muslim sea farers. The fact that this guy has to resort to claiming that Australia was discovered by them, and that aboriginees are descendants of them,
Umm.. He's not saying that aboriginees descended from them. He's saying that a few Afgahns intermarried with the natives.
But his evidence is almost completely based on citing cultural "similarities" between the Muslims and the aborigines. It's Van Danaken-esque in his logic (ie. The aborigines couldn't have developed concepts of burial by themselves. Muslims must have given it to them. Either it was Allah or aliens.).
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evilcat4000 wrote:Aboriginal culture does not bear any real resemblence to Islamic culture. After all Aboriginals dont believe in Islam in the first place.
After a few thousand years, the influence may have died down.
Still bullshit though.
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Gandalf wrote:After a few thousand years, the influence may have died down.
Still bullshit though.
Ahem, Islam only exists for about 1400 years.
As some of you have said, it's ridiculous to think that the aboriginies couldn't have got circumcision, marriage ceremonies, respect for tribal elders, and burial of the dead without Islamic seafarers. I mean, after all, humans have been doing those things for thousands or even tens of thousands of years.
HemlockGrey wrote:This falls into the same category as the Vikings reaching Vinland and Zheng He or his contemporaries reaching California or South America. Even if they did, they changed nothing. No Chinese colonies, no lasting Viking settlement, no impression of Muslim authority in Australia.
I thought they found a Viking settlement that was inhabited for about 10 years in Vinland?
P.S. wouldn't it have been cool if Columbus had gotten here and found out what happens when you leave a thousand technologically advanced pagans in North America for 400 years?
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CaptainChewbacca wrote:I thought they found a Viking settlement that was inhabited for about 10 years in Vinland?
P.S. wouldn't it have been cool if Columbus had gotten here and found out what happens when you leave a thousand technologically advanced pagans in North America for 400 years?
Whatever happened to those Vikings? I realise they perished, but does anyone know how or why? Also, would they have been technologically advanced compared to Columbus and his people?
They probably collapsed or simply left due to their low numbers and hostilities with the natives. The Vinland settlements were outposts from an outpost and existed at the extreme fringe of the Norse culture. Greenland settlers continued to sail to Vinland to get wood but they generaly kept out of inhabited areas. If there had been a deliberate effort by the Danish or Norwegian kings to establish a colony things might have turned out differently but I don't think word of Vinland ever travelled that far.
It would have been an intresting alternate history if the Vinlanders had survived and traded with & influenced the natives. Perhaps Cortez would have been greated by steel clad mounted Aztek lancers as simply another fairskinned northern barbarian ambassador rather than as a God with unbreachable armor and strange beastmen at his command.
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evilcat4000 wrote:Aboriginal culture does not bear any real resemblence to Islamic culture. After all Aboriginals dont believe in Islam in the first place.
After a few thousand years, the influence may have died down.
Still bullshit though.
Islam existed for over 1400 years and nothing has changed. If the Aboriginals were Islamic once they would have been following the same customs as muslims elsewhere on the planet
. In reality Aboriginials are not even muslims in the first place.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
P.S. wouldn't it have been cool if Columbus had gotten here and found out what happens when you leave a thousand technologically advanced pagans in North America for 400 years?
I think Columbus did not even knew he discovered a new continent when he found America. He was searching for a sea route to India.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
CJvR wrote:They probably collapsed or simply left due to their low numbers and hostilities with the natives. The Vinland settlements were outposts from an outpost and existed at the extreme fringe of the Norse culture. Greenland settlers continued to sail to Vinland to get wood but they generaly kept out of inhabited areas. If there had been a deliberate effort by the Danish or Norwegian kings to establish a colony things might have turned out differently but I don't think word of Vinland ever travelled that far.
It would have been an intresting alternate history if the Vinlanders had survived and traded with & influenced the natives. Perhaps Cortez would have been greated by steel clad mounted Aztek lancers as simply another fairskinned northern barbarian ambassador rather than as a God with unbreachable armor and strange beastmen at his command.
IIRC Vinland and Greenland were settled during a period of unusually warm temperatures around 1000-1200 CE. I've even heard anecdotes that vineyards were established in Norway during that time, but I don't know of any hard evidence for it. When the temperatures cooled again (went back to normal) the Greenland settlement (which had been only marginally habitable to begin with) completely collapsed, and the Vinlanders, having no one nearby to support them, sailed back home. There weren't enough of them to carve out a niche in the area anyway; they were greatly outnumbered by the Indians and their presence didn't seem to cause any widespread plagues like when the English and Spanish began colonizing a few hundred years later.
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evilcat4000 wrote:Aboriginal culture does not bear any real resemblence to Islamic culture. After all Aboriginals dont believe in Islam in the first place.
After a few thousand years, the influence may have died down.
Still bullshit though.
Islam hasn't even been AROUND for a few thousand years.
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