Has the United States begun the Slide to Despotism

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-03-10 05:08pm

Re: conversation between Dalton and me reguarding Politicians, SMAC, and the controversy surrounding the Video Games, MTV and the internet.

from project wonder Planatary Datalinks:

Previn Lal, SMAC wrote:As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

So are things starting to get that bad, should I start hiding the books from the firemen?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-03-10 05:24pm

Unless you're one of those people who apparently think the future of free speech in America depends upon the ability of Howard Stern to continue to ask educated Nigerian women if they've ever eaten monkey, no, not even close. Not even close to being close.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2004-03-10 05:29pm

No No No and step away from the Bong.....

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2004-03-10 06:16pm

I agree with you that its bad but...really. We've had worse censorship than this at times, and we didn't become a dictatorship. America hasn't met its Caeser yet.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-10 06:36pm

No. I don't like the current administration, but we're nothing like a despotism.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-03-10 06:38pm

Symmetry wrote:I agree with you that its bad but...really. We've had worse censorship than this at times, and we didn't become a dictatorship. America hasn't met its Caeser yet.

That's true: look at the Alien and Sedition acts passed under John Adams, or the Sedition Act passed during World War I (both essentially made it illegal to criticize the government or it's performance in any way, but both were, of course, repealed).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-03-10 06:43pm

Nope.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-03-10 07:06pm

You all know my view of censorship in any way... It shouldnt exist

Frankly, Howard Stern has a market for his show that pays him money, and those educated Nigerian women knew what they were getting into when they agreed to go on hs show.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-03-10 07:35pm

No, things aren't that bad.

Even if the worst case scenario about the whole electronic voting/diebold/etc fuckup is true, and it is malice on the part of the current administration to pervert the electoral system, all they're interested in is incrfeasing their own wealth. Repressing people is expensive.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-03-10 07:57pm

Nah, it's not bad yet.

But the ignorance and apathy of most of the American populace could be worse, in my opinion.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-03-10 08:00pm

Symmetry wrote:I agree with you that its bad but...really. We've had worse censorship than this at times, and we didn't become a dictatorship. America hasn't met its Caeser yet.

Yeah, we don't have a dictator popularly elected by the people who gives out food to the poor by paying for it with his own personal money. Oh how horrible.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-03-10 08:06pm

Democracies are ALWAYS teetering on the edge of despotism. The wonder is we've managed to go this long without electing a president for life or having a coup.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-03-10 08:21pm

Cencorship has a perfectly valid and useful purpose. It should be used to protect those from that which they do not want to be exposed to. It should not however, be used to keep people from seeing what they want to see.

The perfect example is that penis bisection thread in HoS. No one's stopping anyone from seeing that if they want to, but I don't want to see it, and have had an excellent time avoiding it because I was given fair warning and opted to pass on it.

How this applies to freedom of speech? I have the right to say anything I want, but people should also have the right not to listen.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-03-10 09:00pm

Yeah, we don't have a dictator popularly elected by the people who gives out food to the poor by paying for it with his own personal money. Oh how horrible.

Yes, curse our lack of constant bloody civil wars and all-powerful military dictators!

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-03-10 11:47pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Yes, curse our lack of constant bloody civil wars and all-powerful military dictators!

I'd remind you that the civil wars were initiated because he entered Italy with his army's 10th Legion acting as body guards. Had he not done so, he would be put on trial for running for consulship in absentia (which was not banned by law but was done to caesar because Cato and Pompey had issues with Caesars actions as consul).

His all powerfulness was merely an artifact of the Roman Republics government and does not make his rule a bad one. Democracy is democracy. His election as consul occured 5 TIMES IN A ROW, and was given dictatorial power by the Senate for 10 years straight. Then he was given power of dictator for life. He also refused a gift from a friend, a diadem which represented royalty in greece, because he hated the idea of monarchy.

And my post was originally not to say that dictatorships can be good, but rather that Caesar's rule as dictator was NOT a bad thing, as the person stated.

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » 2004-03-11 06:07pm

Caesar probably would not have been a bad leader, and his throne probably would have been better than the escalation of problems that occured after his death. The war between Octavian and Marcus was a grevious affair that should never have happend. But who knows...Octavian was a very good leader as well.

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » 2004-03-11 06:08pm

Although, Ceaser was not much for a true republic. His idea of a senate was one stocked with his yes men and supporters.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-03-11 06:09pm

Cornelius wrote:Although, Ceaser was not much for a true republic. His idea of a senate was one stocked with his yes men and supporters.

Thats all heads of state, dude.

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » 2004-03-11 06:10pm

I'd remind you that the civil wars were initiated because he entered Italy with his army's 10th Legion acting as body guards

There were several important civil wars brewing even before Ceasar took power. The conflict between the Populare and the Optimates was one thing that started the ball rolling.

Although, I guess one can say that conflict really began as early as the Lex Hortensia and the Canuculean laws.

Cornelius · Post by **Cornelius** » 2004-03-11 06:12pm

Thats all heads of state, dude.

Today they got something like that, yea. But at least they have more checks and balances in other areas of government. I don't think the president has such powers to make pocket boroughs ( I spelled that wrong I think).

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-03-12 05:35pm

Ma Deuce wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I agree with you that its bad but...really. We've had worse censorship than this at times, and we didn't become a dictatorship. America hasn't met its Caeser yet.
That's true: look at the Alien and Sedition acts passed under John Adams, or the Sedition Act passed during World War I (both essentially made it illegal to criticize the government or it's performance in any way, but both were, of course, repealed).

Keep in mind that these examples are of us managing to "climb out" after we were "sliding" into despotism. The fact we climbed out in the past is completly irrelevant to the question of whether we are CURRENTLY sliding into despotism.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-03-12 06:21pm

The whole Republic was sliding to shit already thanks to Sulla. Caesar's depiction is a result of peoples who had a bad experience with Sulla, and who were effectively Roman aristocrats. The Senate was very corrupt by Caesar's time.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-03-13 03:59am

Joe wrote:Unless you're one of those people who apparently think the future of free speech in America depends upon the ability of Howard Stern to continue to ask educated Nigerian women if they've ever eaten monkey, no, not even close. Not even close to being close.

That's exactly what free speech means, you stupid fuck.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-03-13 04:18am

First They Came for the Shock Jocks

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-03-13 04:39am

Lord Poe wrote:
Joe wrote:Unless you're one of those people who apparently think the future of free speech in America depends upon the ability of Howard Stern to continue to ask educated Nigerian women if they've ever eaten monkey, no, not even close. Not even close to being close.
That's exactly what free speech means, you stupid fuck.

I realize the error of my ways now. I now see that a corporation's decision to axe a disc jockey who snickers about African monkey eating while asking professional sleazebags who they have had anal sex with is just as egregious an infringment on free speech as a journalist being thrown in jail for criticizing the Chinese government, or a Socialist being sent to a concentration camp for not supporting the party in power, or a factory manager being sent to the Gulag for twenty years for being the first to stop applauding the Glorious Leader.

I apologize for my error and hope this concession will be accepted. For it is genuine, I assure you.