Methodist Church in Seattle to try gay pastor

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-03-18 11:56am

The same old intolerence...

BTW, by try they mean "put on trial", for those of you who respond before reading the article...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-03-18 07:49pm

Perhaps she should simply leave the church, and seek employment elsewhere. I hope she has some college degree other than the bullshit one in theology.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-03-18 08:25pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Perhaps she should simply leave the church, and seek employment elsewhere. I hope she has some college degree other than the bullshit one in theology.

From a purely practical perspective, that might be the best choice. But wouldn't doing so be symbolicly admitting to the church that their view is actually correct? If it were me, I don't think I would want to go down without a fight.
In any case, it's almost a given that the church is going to find a way to boot her anyway. The "trial" is just for show.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-03-18 09:14pm

Ma Deuce wrote:But wouldn't doing so be symbolicly admitting to the church that their view is actually correct?

From a Christian perspective the church is correct. If you accept the Bible to be true, then homosexuality is wrong, and you are going to hell for posting on SD.net.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-18 09:40pm

That's the problem with Christian moderates; they are in the uncomfortable position of advocating a watered-down version of a religion whose entire credibility is based on the authority of Scripture: a document whose authority they must appeal to for faith, and yet whose accuracy they must doubt in the name of being reasonable.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-03-19 08:38pm

Thats rather interesting. I didn't know that the church could "try" there own for such things. It's still utter bullshit though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2004-03-21 07:44pm

Well the verdict is in, and she was found not guilty of violating church law and can continue to be a pastor, the vote was eleven not guilty, two undecided and just one guilty.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-03-21 07:50pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well the verdict is in, and she was found not guilty of violating church law and can continue to be a pastor, the vote was eleven not guilty, two undecided and just one guilty.

Well then, I guess I must view these particular Methodist in a better light. More power to them.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-03-21 07:59pm

I'm pretty sure trial by church tribunal is voluntary on the part of the woman. Glad she went for it and kept her job.

^And yes, we fundies can surprise you every once in a while.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2004-03-21 08:08pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:^And yes, we fundies can surprise you every once in a while.

The ones who judged the pastor are probably not fundies as evident by the trial outcome. However there must be a large fundie population within the Methodist community seeing how this was an issue to begin with.

The church I grew up in was full of progressive Christians. Even though it was Southern Baptist, fundamentalism was simply not rampert within the congregation. However I would not conclude that on a whole the Southern Baptist Convention is not filled with and run by raging fundamentalist loonies because of that one of very few exceptions.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2004-03-21 08:30pm

The average Methodist is less strict and intolerant than the average Baptist or Mormon.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-03-21 09:05pm

I started out methodist, then we moved to a Presbyterian church, so I'd like to think my churches have been open-minded. My grandfather is a methodist pastor, and I've never heard him condemn homosexuality.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-21 09:14pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I started out methodist, then we moved to a Presbyterian church, so I'd like to think my churches have been open-minded. My grandfather is a methodist pastor, and I've never heard him condemn homosexuality.

Tell him you're gay. Then you'll know whether he's open minded.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-03-21 09:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:I started out methodist, then we moved to a Presbyterian church, so I'd like to think my churches have been open-minded. My grandfather is a methodist pastor, and I've never heard him condemn homosexuality.
Tell him you're gay. Then you'll know whether he's open minded.

Yeah, because what Grandpa really wants for his birthday is a stroke.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-21 09:52pm

That is really a surprise coming out of Seattle. I usually think of Seattle as fairly accepting of such things.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-03-21 10:00pm

Howedar wrote:That is really a surprise coming out of Seattle. I usually think of Seattle as fairly accepting of such things.

Seattle's a liberal city. But it's no San Fransisco.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-21 10:09pm

Perhaps Seattle's music community is liberal, but that says nothing about the major political power base. It is the silent majority which really controls these things.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-21 10:13pm

My parents are Methodists and I still go with them every few weeks to get a decent restaurant breakfast meal afterwards. I’ve yet to hear any of the church condemn homosexuality and none of the pastors has deemed recent events in San Francisco worth mentioning in sermon. The Methodists are some of the more liberal Protestants from what I’ve seen.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-03-21 10:16pm

Alyeska wrote:My parents are Methodists and I still go with them every few weeks to get a decent restaurant breakfast meal afterwards. I’ve yet to hear any of the church condemn homosexuality and none of the pastors has deemed recent events in San Francisco worth mentioning in sermon. The Methodists are some of the more liberal Protestants from what I’ve seen.

That may only be that particular church, not the Methodists in general. Rhetoric may also be quite dissimilar to practice. I once went to a Mennonite Brethren church which seemed very liberal and open-minded. But after all the rhetoric about welcoming outsiders and understanding those of other faiths, they were the ones who deliberately torpedoed my wedding plans at the 11th hour because I don't believe in Jesus Christ.

Moral of the story: Christian objects in the mirror can be more intolerant than they appear.

Tom_Aurum · Post by **Tom_Aurum** » 2004-03-21 11:47pm

Just seattle's... music community?!?! You haven't been here recently. I don't know the exact stats, but from my experience, the city is actually pretty liberal. But yeah, it's no San Francisco, and the Stranger seens to be one of the few media voices for the liberal community around here.
Feh.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-03-22 12:41am

Darth Wong wrote:Perhaps Seattle's music community is liberal, but that says nothing about the major political power base. It is the silent majority which really controls these things.

I wasn't speaking about the musical community, but rather Seattle as a whole. I've never lived there, but I have spent quite a bit of time there.

It's quite liberal as far as US cities go.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2004-03-22 01:08am

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:My parents are Methodists and I still go with them every few weeks to get a decent restaurant breakfast meal afterwards. I’ve yet to hear any of the church condemn homosexuality and none of the pastors has deemed recent events in San Francisco worth mentioning in sermon. The Methodists are some of the more liberal Protestants from what I’ve seen.
That may only be that particular church, not the Methodists in general. Rhetoric may also be quite dissimilar to practice. I once went to a Mennonite Brethren church which seemed very liberal and open-minded. But after all the rhetoric about welcoming outsiders and understanding those of other faiths, they were the ones who deliberately torpedoed my wedding plans at the 11th hour because I don't believe in Jesus Christ.

Moral of the story: Christian objects in the mirror can be more intolerant than they appear.

My parents partly choose to be Methodist bassed on similar views. My moms brother is gay and both my parents are quite fine with that. We even had my brother and his partner over for the holidays and there wasn't any tension and everyone got along fine. I don't think my parents would choose a church that was that far against their line of thinking.

But as you said, this is just one church, not the whole of Methodists.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-03-22 07:44pm

If they had found her guilty and defrocked her, the United Methodist Church would have been a little less united. I know that my congregation was ready to up and withdraw from the UMC if the decision came through as guilty. Glad it didn't, that's all I have to say on the matter. The paperwork involved for everyone with the official withdrawals would be horrendous.

(jk)

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-03-22 08:37pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Thats rather interesting. I didn't know that the church could "try" there own for such things. It's still utter bullshit though.

They can do whatever they want. It's not like this trial has any legal weight. It's basically a court room where paying lip service to God will get you an acquittal. Kind of like the US courts.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-03-22 09:54pm

I concur with all the statements regarding tolerance in the methodist church. The sponsor of our Gay Straight Alliance, and the founder of it, are both methodists(they went to different churches) and from what I have read, have more gay-friendly congregations than any other denomination.

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Methodist Church in Seattle to try gay pastor

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