Have any political ads changed your mind?

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 03:31pm

John Kerry's latest ad did- there is no way in hell he's getting my vote now. There is no way in hell I'm voting for a canidate that thinks healthcare is a "right".

Anyway, here's a free hint Johnny boy- American's are not big on entitlements and promising a huge government run national health care system, espically when we're up to our eyeballs in debt and deficit spending, is not the way to get votes outside of your base.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-07-07 04:16pm

Do you have health insurance, Blkbrry?

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-07-07 04:25pm

What's so bad about universal healthcare? Sure, you pay higher taxes, but in the end, the average citizen would actually end up paying less over time than in a private healthcare system.

And no, political ads have never positivly affected my opinion of the given party/candidate. They have on several occasion lowered my opinion of whoever ran the ad, however

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 04:32pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Do you have health insurance, Blkbrry?

Nope, and I stand by my position.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-07 04:35pm

No. Campaign ads do not exist to round out your political education; quite the opposite, in fact. So it's best not to make decisions based on them.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-07-07 04:35pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Do you have health insurance, Blkbrry?
Nope, and I stand by my position.

You realise that one accident or unforseen illness can if not ruin your whole life, hobble you financially for the rest of it, then?

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 04:39pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Do you have health insurance, Blkbrry?
Nope, and I stand by my position.
You realise that one accident or unforseen illness can if not ruin your whole life, hobble you financially for the rest of it, then?

Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-07-07 04:43pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.

Free?

Who said that health care service providers would be reduced to slavery? You don't think that police work for free, do you?

Augustus · Post by **Augustus** » 2004-07-07 04:45pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Do you have health insurance, Blkbrry?
Nope, and I stand by my position.
You realise that one accident or unforseen illness can if not ruin your whole life, hobble you financially for the rest of it, then?

Insurance is no guarantee against it either. Self determination and personal responsibility are the closest you will ever get to absolute prevention of personal hardship/injury.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-07 04:46pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.

You would pay for it with your tax dollars, you fool. Jesus Christ, I can't believe you're that stupid.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 04:48pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.
Free?
Who said that health care service providers would be reduced to slavery? You don't think that police work for free, do you?

I certainly didn't, the slavery would not take the shape of using "irons" to shackel healthcare workers into hospitals. Rather its using the governement to threaten/compel taxpayers to work for me at no benefit to themselves.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-07-07 04:48pm

Augustus wrote:Insurance is no guarantee against it either. Self determination and personal responsibility are the closest you will ever get to absolute prevention of personal hardship/injury.

I was pretty fucking "self determined" to not become a type 1 diabetic, and it did me no good whatsoever. As a matter of fact, there is absolutely nothing I could have done to avoid it.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-07-07 04:51pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.
Free?
Who said that health care service providers would be reduced to slavery? You don't think that police work for free, do you?
I certainly didn't, the slavery would not take the shape of using "irons" to shackel healthcare workers into hospitals. Rather its using the governement to threaten/compel taxpayers to work for me at no benefit to themselves.

Hipper, don't even bother replying to him. He's just having diarrhea of the mouth.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-07 04:51pm

Augustus wrote:Insurance is no guarantee against it either. Self determination and personal responsibility are the closest you will ever get to absolute prevention of personal hardship/injury.

Oh what a fucking load of shit. All the self-determination and personal responsibility in the world won't stop a drunk driver from running you over on a sidewalk.

And aside from that, the point of insurance isn't to prevent injury, you idiot; it's to help your recuperate from the effects of injury. Do you honestly think that life insurance is supposed to make you immortal?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-07 04:54pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Yes, I do realize that- and I worry about it any time I hop in the car or cut the lawn. However, I do not have the right to compel or coerce someone into providing it to me for free, to state otherwise is to state that slavery is a legitmate principle.
Free?
Who said that health care service providers would be reduced to slavery? You don't think that police work for free, do you?
I certainly didn't, the slavery would not take the shape of using "irons" to shackel healthcare workers into hospitals. Rather its using the governement to threaten/compel taxpayers to work for me at no benefit to themselves.

Newsflash, retard. The world does not revolve around you. Taxes are part of a social contract that everyone takes part in because it's mutually beneficial. You agree to pay taxes, as does everyone else, so that everyone can get something from it. By paying taxes to support universal healthcare, everyone gets it. That's the benefit for the taxpayers, you blithering idiot. That's the benefit for every taxpayer-funded program. Or is funding education with property taxes "slavery" too?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-07 04:55pm

I assume you also don't have children without healthcare either. And her's a hint buddy boy there's a wealth of entitlement programs and corporate welfare to subsidize companies. I guess they're more deserving than the struggling middle class family or the single parent trying to survive out there in the world.

That self sufficient fucking nonsense is OK for someone who has no family and no cares in the world but things change when you have responsibilites above and beyond yourself.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 05:01pm

Durandal wrote:You would pay for it with your tax dollars, you fool. Jesus Christ, I can't believe you're that stupid.

No shit fuckhead, it'll no doubt work in a similar fashion to msot insurance companies. The difference is that you can change insurance companies or decide you don't want insurance(for whatever reason), you can't say no to paying taxes; thus your compeled to work for the benefit of another person with no choice in the matter.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-07 05:03pm

Durandal wrote:Or is funding education with property taxes "slavery" too?

Yes Durandal, that is apparently his view.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-07 05:13pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Durandal wrote:You would pay for it with your tax dollars, you fool. Jesus Christ, I can't believe you're that stupid.
No shit fuckhead, it'll no doubt work in a similar fashion to msot insurance companies. The difference is that you can change insurance companies or decide you don't want insurance(for whatever reason), you can't say no to paying taxes; thus your compeled to work for the benefit of another person with no choice in the matter.

The same can be said about education funding, jack-ass. Or were you not aware that parents can send their children to private schools but still have to pay property taxes to fund public schools?

But you're, as usual, totally full of shit anyway. There is no "education tax" that people are compelled to pay. Tax money is collected and pooled and then it is allocated in a way the government sees fit. Even if a state government completely abolished educational funding from property taxes, that doesn't necessarily translate to lowering the tax rate. In fact, that tax rate would probably stay the same, and the money that would have gone to schools would simply go somewhere else.

If parents choose their own private school to send their children to, they are willfully choosing to forego a service the government provides, so they still have to pay taxes. Tough break, but taxes aren't "opt-in" or "cafeteria table" affairs where you can pick and choose what you want to pay for.

Then again, I wouldn't expect a fucktard like you to have any understanding of how taxation works, since it's all just slavery to you anyway.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2004-07-07 05:13pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Durandal wrote:You would pay for it with your tax dollars, you fool. Jesus Christ, I can't believe you're that stupid.
No shit fuckhead, it'll no doubt work in a similar fashion to msot insurance companies. The difference is that you can change insurance companies or decide you don't want insurance(for whatever reason), you can't say no to paying taxes; thus your compeled to work for the benefit of another person with no choice in the matter.

Same as with police, fire and education...along with the military, roads and various other stuff...

If I was just a smidgen more evil, I'd wish a cruel debilitating illness on you so you can see why healthcare is important to society.

Augustus · Post by **Augustus** » 2004-07-07 05:15pm

Durandal wrote:And aside from that, the point of insurance isn't to prevent injury, you idiot; it's to help your recuperate from the effects of injury. Do you honestly think that life insurance is supposed to make you immortal?

No of course not don't be intentionally obtuse.
The point of Insurance is not to help you recover from injury but to alleviate the finical burden placed on you by injury.

A better question would be, is it properly the role of the Goverment to provide health care? And if the answer to that question is yes then, where do Goverment's responsibilities end and the private citizen's begin?

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 05:26pm

Newsflash, retard. The world does not revolve around you. Taxes are part of a social contract that everyone takes part in because it's mutually beneficial. You agree to pay taxes, as does everyone else, so that everyone can get something from it. By paying taxes to support universal healthcare, everyone gets it. That's the benefit for the taxpayers, you blithering idiot. That's the benefit for every taxpayer-funded program.

No, universal healthcare, like every government program, benefits those who recieve the funds from it, not everyone in the public. Or does the fact that government spending is a zero sum system escape you?

Or is funding education with property taxes "slavery" too?

Actually, yes it is. Just ask any adult with no children. Its also as inefficent as hell, as any fair look at the American Education system will tell you. In my opinion, we would be better off reducing taxes, abolishing public education, and having privately run "liscenced" (to prevent "nutcase" cirraculum) schools.

And her's a hint buddy boy there's a wealth of entitlement programs and corporate welfare to subsidize companies.

And you think that I support entitlement programs in general? Why?

I assume you also don't have children without healthcare either.... I guess they're more deserving than the struggling middle class family or the single parent trying to survive out there in the world.

That self sufficient fucking nonsense is OK for someone who has no family and no cares in the world but things change when you have responsibilites above and beyond yourself.

Your breeding does not entitle you to my bread. If you want a family then support it.

LadyTevar wrote:Hipper, don't even bother replying to him. He's just having diarrhea of the mouth.

Wow, what an intellegent well written rebuttal. I certainly apprecaite it, its certainly stands out against all the other posters who have enganged in nothing but insults/ad hominum attacks up to this point.

[/quote]

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-07 05:31pm

Augustus wrote:No of course not don't be intentionally obtuse.
The point of Insurance is not to help you recover from injury but to alleviate the finical burden placed on you by injury.

Which is precisely what I said. Part of recovering from an injury is being able to pay for treatment. And insurance will help you get that treatment in the first place. But what you said was that insurance doesn't guarantee against injury. Well no fucking shit. And I noticed that you've quietly ignored my response to your idiotic comments about self determination and personal responsibility being somewhere close to absolute prevention of personal injury.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-07-07 05:32pm

I don't suppose you know what economies of scale are.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-07-07 05:46pm

The same can be said about education funding, jack-ass. Or were you not aware that parents can send their children to private schools but still have to pay property taxes to fund public schools?

Of course it can. Do you think that this is just?

But you're, as usual, totally full of shit anyway. There is no "education tax" that people are compelled to pay. Tax money is collected and pooled and then it is allocated in a way the government sees fit. Even if a state government completely abolished educational funding from property taxes, that doesn't necessarily translate to lowering the tax rate. In fact, that tax rate would probably stay the same, and the money that would have gone to schools would simply go somewhere else.

In most State's the property tax, which is there specifically to pay for public schooling, is done at the the county, not the state level. As a result, it is not "pooled" into the general county funding and would be much easier to repel. Regardless, the nity grity of public school taxation is unimportant- I doubt that any public offical that abolished public schooling, while retaining the taxes that support it, would be elected to another term.

If parents choose their own private school to send their children to, they are willfully choosing to forego a service the government provides, so they still have to pay taxes. Tough break, but taxes aren't "opt-in" or "cafeteria table" affairs where you can pick and choose what you want to pay for.

Which is exactly the point, it's inheritently unjust.

Keevan_Colton wrote:Same as with police, fire and education...along with the military, roads and various other stuff...

False analogy- things such as the police and military are part of the very purpose of government, namely to protect our lives and liberty.