Kenneth Lay Charged with 11 criminal counts

Daltonator · Post by **Daltonator** » 2004-07-08 09:48am

Got smacked with 11 charges including securities, wire fraud and false and misleading statements.

Story at MSNBC.com

Betcha that if (when?

) Bush loses the election he'll pardon this fucker.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-08 10:19am

Bush can't pardon him if he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. I'm not sure that you can do a pardon in advance.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-07-08 11:30am

Durandal wrote:Bush can't pardon him if he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. I'm not sure that you can do a pardon in advance.

Since when has Bush let the law stand in his way?

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2004-07-08 11:31am

JME2 wrote:
Durandal wrote:Bush can't pardon him if he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. I'm not sure that you can do a pardon in advance.
Since when has Bush let the law stand in his way?

Don't pardons need to be approved?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2004-07-08 12:27pm

Actually, Bush could pardon Lay. His daddy, after all, pardoned Caspar Weinberger and five other named Iran/Contra conspirators ahead of indictments being handed down against them in 1992. Furthermore, the president's power of pardon is just about absolute; no congressional or judicial approval is required.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2004-07-08 12:32pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Durandal wrote:Bush can't pardon him if he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. I'm not sure that you can do a pardon in advance.
Since when has Bush let the law stand in his way?
Don't pardons need to be approved?

Nope.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-07-08 03:19pm

It would be the most foolish political move he ever made. Say what you will of Bush, but I do think he cares about the GOP somewhat. He'd never shoot them in the foot like that.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-08 03:27pm

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush didn't push FOR the charges to be made in order to help deflect charges that he is OK with Corporate corruptions and scandals by pointing to the Lay indictment as proof positive that his administration didn't spread its ass cheeks for Enron.

Post by **Dalton** » 2004-07-08 04:03pm

Stravo wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush didn't push FOR the charges to be made in order to help deflect charges that he is OK with Corporate corruptions and scandals by pointing to the Lay indictment as proof positive that his administration didn't spread its ass cheeks for Enron.

Very good point, actually. Would Bush screw over his own buddy just to keep the mud off his shoes, though?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-08 04:10pm

Dalton wrote:
Stravo wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush didn't push FOR the charges to be made in order to help deflect charges that he is OK with Corporate corruptions and scandals by pointing to the Lay indictment as proof positive that his administration didn't spread its ass cheeks for Enron.
Very good point, actually. Would Bush screw over his own buddy just to keep the mud off his shoes, though?

No matter what happens, worst case scenario, Lay ends up in a minimum security club Fed facility. If I were Bush's friend I'd say, roll them dice, an indictment does not mean I'm going to jail, offer me a sweet plea arranegment and I'll gladly due some time away from the drudgery of being one of the most hated business men alive and you throw me a bone in the future from you Saudi contacts.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2004-07-08 04:17pm

Dalton wrote:
Stravo wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush didn't push FOR the charges to be made in order to help deflect charges that he is OK with Corporate corruptions and scandals by pointing to the Lay indictment as proof positive that his administration didn't spread its ass cheeks for Enron.
Very good point, actually. Would Bush screw over his own buddy just to keep the mud off his shoes, though?

Depends on if he thinks it would help him in the polls or not.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-07-08 05:52pm

LadyTevar wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Stravo wrote:Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Bush didn't push FOR the charges to be made in order to help deflect charges that he is OK with Corporate corruptions and scandals by pointing to the Lay indictment as proof positive that his administration didn't spread its ass cheeks for Enron.
Very good point, actually. Would Bush screw over his own buddy just to keep the mud off his shoes, though?
Depends on if he thinks it would help him in the polls or not.

Also, how much pressure Lay could exert on Bush to get him back for it.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-07-08 08:16pm

neoolong wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:
Dalton wrote: Very good point, actually. Would Bush screw over his own buddy just to keep the mud off his shoes, though?
Depends on if he thinks it would help him in the polls or not.
Also, how much pressure Lay could exert on Bush to get him back for it.

What pressure? The man is totally disgraced and facing more than 100 years in prison. He's got absolutely no leverage to use against the President of the United States. If he had anything, he would have used it already.

EDIT: And furthermore, I doubt anything he could hypothetically have would be enough to push Bush into committing a murder-suicide on the Republican Party and his own political career by intervening to protect Ken Lay. Bush is going to let Kenny Boy twist in the wind.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-07-08 09:52pm

RedImperator wrote:What pressure? The man is totally disgraced and facing more than 100 years in prison. He's got absolutely no leverage to use against the President of the United States. If he had anything, he would have used it already.

EDIT: And furthermore, I doubt anything he could hypothetically have would be enough to push Bush into committing a murder-suicide on the Republican Party and his own political career by intervening to protect Ken Lay. Bush is going to let Kenny Boy twist in the wind.

Which is why I said could. If all he said was look at what Bush is doing to me, and it could be you and that has some effect, then that is pressure.

Fixed over-quoting. Please take the 5 seconds to select the unnecessary quotes and delete them next time.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Rampant AI

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-07-08 10:05pm

neoolong wrote:Which is why I said could. If all he said was look at what Bush is doing to me, and it could be you and that has some effect, then that is pressure.

That argument really shouldn't have much effect on people who haven't participated in a giant energy speculation scam that bankrupted an entire state and wiped out thousands of 401k's.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-08 10:06pm

Argh, overquoting!

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-07-08 10:09pm

Joe wrote:Argh, overquoting!

Fixed, because moderators are special and can edit their own posts anywhere.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-07-09 03:16am

RedImperator wrote:
neoolong wrote:Which is why I said could. If all he said was look at what Bush is doing to me, and it could be you and that has some effect, then that is pressure.
That argument really shouldn't have much effect on people who haven't participated in a giant energy speculation scam that bankrupted an entire state and wiped out thousands of 401k's.

True, but if he could call in enough favors... Or maybe I've just been watching too many movies about wall street.

Sorry about the overquoting.