France opposes Sudan Sanctions

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-07-08 01:50pm

From the BBC

"In Darfur, it would be better to help the Sudanese get over the crisis so their country is pacified rather than sanctions which would push them back to their misdeeds of old," junior Foreign Minister Renaud Muselier told French radio.

France led opposition to US moves at the UN over Iraq. As was the case in Iraq, it also has significant oil interests in Sudan.

Mr Muselier also dismissed claims of "ethnic cleansing" or genocide in Darfur.

"I firmly believe it is a civil war and as they are little villages of 30, 40, 50, there is nothing easier than for a few armed horsemen to burn things down, to kill the men and drive out the women," he said.

Human rights activists say the Janjaweed are conducting a genocide against Darfur's black African population.

Those who have fled their homes say the Janjaweed ride on horses and camels into villages which have just been bombed by government aircraft, killing the men and raping the women.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-07-08 04:43pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the US been NOT buying Sudanese oil for the last few years?

Also, how is burning down the viliages of a certain ethnicity and killing its inhabitants NOT ethnic cleansing?

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-07-08 07:55pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the US been NOT buying Sudanese oil for the last few years?

We may not be buying it, but others are. The US want's the UN to encourage the rest of the world to do the same.

Also, how is burning down the viliages of a certain ethnicity and killing its inhabitants NOT ethnic cleansing?

When it cuts into Total's already-slim profit margins.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2004-07-08 07:55pm

Alex Moon wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the US been NOT buying Sudanese oil for the last few years?
We may not be buying it, but others are. The US want's the UN to encourage the rest of the world to do the same.

"The same" meaning "Don't buy Sudanese oil".

Also, how is burning down the viliages of a certain ethnicity and killing its inhabitants NOT ethnic cleansing?
When it cuts into Total's already-slim profit margins.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-07-08 08:28pm

Didn't I hear something about a slave trade being run in Sudan? By the government? Or do I have that backwards or something?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-08 09:16pm

frigidmagi wrote:Didn't I hear something about a slave trade being run in Sudan? By the government? Or do I have that backwards or something?

I'm not sure if it's actually run by the government, or if the government just turns a blind eye towards it, but Sudan has had a slave trade for years.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-07-08 09:19pm

Why the fuck should we help them then? Let them rot until they show signs of at least trying to clean house.

As for Total, isn't there a cleaner group they could deal with? Like the fucking Taliban, or something?

I thought we were trying to wipe out the blight that is slavery not encourage it for the love of green apples...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-08 09:21pm

Sudan from what I understand allows supplies a lot of manpower to the I-explode-for-Allah branch of Islam, also.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-08 09:22pm

"allows" shouldn't be there.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-07-08 09:27pm

Sudan is a total shithole by any definition of the word. Its government sucks ass, but it's also the only government Sudan has. The thinking is that if we throw enough money at them and help them as best we can, maybe things will eventually get better.

BTW, I should also point out that the Sudanese government has committed genocidal actions in the past. It had a LONG civil war with the animists in the south of the country. IIRC, there were hundreds of thousands of deaths in the region directly attributable to the conflict.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2004-07-08 09:35pm

They actually crucify people in Sudan. That tells you how bad the place really is.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-07-09 03:21pm

Links on the Sundanese slave trade:

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/res ... Fsudan.htm

http://www.domini.org/openbook/sud80210.htm

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/issue2/sudan.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2942964.stm

Just reading one of the links is enough to make anyone sick and angry. Mutilations, mass rapes, sex slavery, intentional cripplings (such cutting the Achilles tendon so people can't run away), beatings, murders, and on and on and on.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-09 05:54pm

Unfortunately, throwing money at African countries solves very little if the leadership - which often boils down to one kleptocratic individual - is already corrupt and irresponsable. Case-in-point? Zimbabwe. We shelled out more than $1 billion in direct aid after the end of Ian Smith's white regime in 1980; the country's only gone downhill since.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-07-09 06:00pm

I heard an analogy about that once; "giving aid to African countries is like trying to pour a gallon of water into a shot glass" or something like that.