Implantation of RFID chips IN HUMANS aproved

[Jean Paul]

Link

Umm... 666?

[The Cleric]

I'm all for it. It can't do anything except save lives.

[Aaron]

I don't understand the reference. What does 666 have to do with microchips?

[Sokartawi]

I'd say it's OK as long as:
1) It's entirely voluntairily
2) The chips can be removed by the person themselves (which is possible with certain chips that are currently in circulation)
3) Strict privacy laws cover possible abuse
4) No detector-gates are installed which enables movement-tracking
5) Non-users are not disadvantaged in any way

[The Cleric]

1) It's entirely voluntairily

Why? Vacinations at birth aren't voluntary, and neither are your medical records.

2) The chips can be removed by the person themselves (which is possible with certain chips that are currently in circulation)

Alright. I don't see why though.

3) Strict privacy laws cover possible abuse

Like what?

4) No detector-gates are installed which enables movement-tracking

I don't think the signal is that powerful, but if so, I still don't see the problem. Don't do anything wrong if you don't want to get in trouble.

5) Non-users are not disadvantaged in any way

They'd already be disadvantaged because they won't be able to be treated as quickly.

[Sokartawi]

1) It's entirely voluntairily

Why? Vacinations at birth aren't voluntary, and neither are your medical records.

Over here vaccination is on voluntarily base, and I personally do not have all of them as certain ones have as side-effect to increase your chance of getting asmathic-like disorders.

3) Strict privacy laws cover possible abuse

Like what?

People using the acquired information for personal reasons for instance?

4) No detector-gates are installed which enables movement-tracking

I don't think the signal is that powerful, but if so, I still don't see the problem. Don't do anything wrong if you don't want to get in trouble.

Most over-used argument, on the same line as "if you don't do anything wrong you should have nothing to hide". Be aware though that governments aren't perfect, and they might use these things against us.

5) Non-users are not disadvantaged in any way

They'd already be disadvantaged because they won't be able to be treated as quickly.

Disadvantaged in comparison to the current service they get.

[The Cleric]

Why? Vacinations at birth aren't voluntary, and neither are your medical records.

Over here vaccination is on voluntarily base, and I personally do not have all of them as certain ones have as side-effect to increase your chance of getting asmathic-like disorders.

It's more like a UPC code for your medical records. Not your life history. They can get those eventually anyway, without your explicit permission. This would just make it faster.

Like what?

People using the acquired information for personal reasons for instance?

Without a scanner, and a connection to the medical database, nothing can be done with it. Except MAYBE track your movements. And who cares?

I don't think the signal is that powerful, but if so, I still don't see the problem. Don't do anything wrong if you don't want to get in trouble.

Most over-used argument, on the same line as "if you don't do anything wrong you should have nothing to hide". Be aware though that governments aren't perfect, and they might use these things against us.

Like what? Being able to place you somewhere at some time? What harm could possibly come out of that? Security cameras can do that now, just inneficiently.

They'd already be disadvantaged because they won't be able to be treated as quickly.

Disadvantaged in comparison to the current service they get.

I guess. But today's service standard would be forgotten soon enough, and their treatment would be substandard because of the MASSIVE delay in pulling up information. Do you have any idea how hard it is to ID someone who's brought in from say, and mugging/stabbing where they don't have their wallet? The chips would eliminate that need.

[Sokartawi]

Why? Vacinations at birth aren't voluntary, and neither are your medical records.

Over here vaccination is on voluntarily base, and I personally do not have all of them as certain ones have as side-effect to increase your chance of getting asmathic-like disorders.

It's more like a UPC code for your medical records. Not your life history. They can get those eventually anyway, without your explicit permission. This would just make it faster.

I already believe they have gone too far with allowing access to medical data without the owner's permission.

Like what?

People using the acquired information for personal reasons for instance?

Without a scanner, and a connection to the medical database, nothing can be done with it. Except MAYBE track your movements. And who cares?

I don't think the signal is that powerful, but if so, I still don't see the problem. Don't do anything wrong if you don't want to get in trouble.

Most over-used argument, on the same line as "if you don't do anything wrong you should have nothing to hide". Be aware though that governments aren't perfect, and they might use these things against us.

Like what? Being able to place you somewhere at some time? What harm could possibly come out of that? Security cameras can do that now, just inneficiently.

I don't leave my (black-market bought, unregistered, prepaid) cellphone on, only turn it on when I need to call or am expecting a call, and I pay most of my things in cash instead of electronically, don't use customer cards for shops, and I use multiple layers of proxies when surfing the net and some friends even have a whole set of encryption counter-codes I sent to them by snail-mail for just those reasons. Call me paranoid, but no-one has any business knowing where I've been, what I'm saying, what I've bought, and what I'm doing.

They'd already be disadvantaged because they won't be able to be treated as quickly.

Disadvantaged in comparison to the current service they get.

I guess. But today's service standard would be forgotten soon enough, and their treatment would be substandard because of the MASSIVE delay in pulling up information. Do you have any idea how hard it is to ID someone who's brought in from say, and mugging/stabbing where they don't have their wallet? The chips would eliminate that need.

Privacy is more important to me then that minor security improvement. And it's a lame excuse if the hospitals blame lack of a chip if they are too lazy to look through the records (which they do today and doesn't seem to trouble them much except for a few cases)

[Aaron]

Would someone care to explain the relevance of 666 to this?

[The Cleric]

Over here vaccination is on voluntarily base, and I personally do not have all of them as certain ones have as side-effect to increase your chance of getting asmathic-like disorders.

It's more like a UPC code for your medical records. Not your life history. They can get those eventually anyway, without your explicit permission. This would just make it faster.

I already believe they have gone too far with allowing access to medical data without the owner's permission.

So how are they going to know if they have an allergy to a specific medicine? And if they give it to them, they go into cardiac arrest and die within a minute? Medical records are important.

People using the acquired information for personal reasons for instance?

Without a scanner, and a connection to the medical database, nothing can be done with it. Except MAYBE track your movements. And who cares?

Most over-used argument, on the same line as "if you don't do anything wrong you should have nothing to hide". Be aware though that governments aren't perfect, and they might use these things against us.

Like what? Being able to place you somewhere at some time? What harm could possibly come out of that? Security cameras can do that now, just inneficiently.

I don't leave my (black-market bought, unregistered, prepaid) cellphone on, only turn it on when I need to call or am expecting a call, and I pay most of my things in cash instead of electronically, don't use customer cards for shops, and I use multiple layers of proxies when surfing the net and some friends even have a whole set of encryption counter-codes I sent to them by snail-mail for just those reasons. Call me paranoid, but no-one has any business knowing where I've been, what I'm saying, what I've bought, and what I'm doing.

Ok, I'm going to walk away slowly. You are WAY too paranoid. Why is the only thing I can ask.

Disadvantaged in comparison to the current service they get.

I guess. But today's service standard would be forgotten soon enough, and their treatment would be substandard because of the MASSIVE delay in pulling up information. Do you have any idea how hard it is to ID someone who's brought in from say, and mugging/stabbing where they don't have their wallet? The chips would eliminate that need.

Privacy is more important to me then that minor security improvement. And it's a lame excuse if the hospitals blame lack of a chip if they are too lazy to look through the records (which they do today and doesn't seem to trouble them much except for a few cases)

You obviously have no idea how much time that can consume, and dont know how many people die because of mistakes with either initial treatment or wrong charts. Hell, this could eliminate charts altogether. Have a little screen with a hand scanner, and just pull the info right there.

[Mayabird]

Would someone care to explain the relevance of 666 to this?

I believe the only proper way to explain it is as follows:

"Oh no! It's the Mark of teh Beast! Just like it says in Revelations! Nobody can do anything without their mark!"

[Aaron]

I believe the only proper way to explain it is as follows:

"Oh no! It's the Mark of teh Beast! Just like it says in Revelations! Nobody can do anything without their mark!"

So 666 in this case is the mircochip? That's a big leap in logic.

[The Cleric]

I believe the only proper way to explain it is as follows:

"Oh no! It's the Mark of teh Beast! Just like it says in Revelations! Nobody can do anything without their mark!"

So 666 in this case is the mircochip? That's a big leap in logic.

I don't think he was serious. I hope

[Mayabird]

I believe the only proper way to explain it is as follows:

"Oh no! It's the Mark of teh Beast! Just like it says in Revelations! Nobody can do anything without their mark!"

So 666 in this case is the mircochip? That's a big leap in logic.

I'm talking about what nutty fundies would say. Logic has NOTHING to do with it. Seems my joke flopped again...I am never going to get a standup routine going.

[Sokartawi]

Would someone care to explain the relevance of 666 to this?

"He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." --The Bible, Revelation 13:16-17

666 is of course Satan's number.

[Psycho Smiley]

So 666 in this case is the mircochip? That's a big leap in logic.

Fundie stomping grounds like +rr-bb.com have been saying "teh chip=666" for years. They're going completely batshit now.

[Sarevok]

Over here vaccination is on voluntarily base, and I personally do not have all of them as certain ones have as side-effect to increase your chance of getting asmathic-like disorders.

Still the chances of getting deadly desease could outweigh any potential sideffects.

People using the acquired information for personal reasons for instance?

Only facilities with secure databases and scanners can use the information. There are no privacy concerns.

Most over-used argument, on the same line as "if you don't do anything wrong you should have nothing to hide". Be aware though that governments aren't perfect, and they might use these things against us.

If the goverment wants they can come and get you. The chip is not going to change anything.

Disadvantaged in comparison to the current service they get.

Well it is their fault they are not seeking better medical treatment.

[Tsyroc]

I think the "666" reference is to the Left Behind Series in which after the Rapture the Anti-Christ is having a ball on Earth and gets a program going where everyone is implanted with a microchip.

[Tsyroc]

Mandatory vaccines aren't so much for a single person's benefit as they are for all of society. Yes the vaccines can keep an single person from getting something but it is much more important to keep large groups of people from getting something. The vaccines are intended to prevent suffering in general but it is more important to drastically lower the odds of a dangerous epidemic breaking out. That's why some vaccines that may have deadly side effects or reactions in 1:100,000 or so children are still mandatory in the US. It has been deemed worth the risk. Sucks if it's your kid that has the bad reaction but the alternative of not having mandatory vacinantions would be worse.

[Petrosjko]

I think the "666" reference is to the Left Behind Series in which after the Rapture the Anti-Christ is having a ball on Earth and gets a program going where everyone is implanted with a microchip.

First reference I heard to it in terms of microchips was around eleven years ago, when a devoutly Catholic friend of mine solemnly informed me that they were developing microchips that could be implanted into people as a means of tracking the population.

AND, he added with breathless anxiety, there were only two supercomputers in the world at the time with the processing power to handle such a task... one of which was in Sweden and was nicknamed 'the Beast'.

"The Rapture is coming, my friend," he tells me piously.

My calm, rational response of "Are you completely out of your fuckin' gourd?" probably goes a long way toward explaining why we stopped corresponding shortly after that exchange.

[HemlockGrey]

Oh, oh, oh, Rapture Ready is comedy gold.

[Chardok]

I would support not only the implantation of the chips, but also issuance or purchase of a scanner by anyone that would scan another person's chip for data which would indicate presence of HIV and other contagious diseases. I mean, come on, invasion of privacy that it is, don't you all think this would go a LONG fucking way to stopping the spread of the disease? The scanner you can buy can be configured to ONLY pick up whether the person is infected with like, HIV, Hep A, Hep C, etc. man, would that save some fucking lives....

[salm]

AND, he added with breathless anxiety, there were only two supercomputers in the world at the time with the processing power to handle such a task... one of which was in Sweden and was nicknamed 'the Beast'.

the beast is called la bete and is located in brussels. the 3 long lines on the barcodes stamped onto every product we buy symbolize the number 6 in computer language. every time we buy something la bete registers this.
we can´t buy anyithing without the mark of the beast anymore nowadays.
btw, la bete is 3 stories tall and self programming. it can also control machines that look like humans (or actually like certain governors) and it has control over the french nuclear arsenal.

proof for la bete contolling us

furthermore, everythime we browse the web we use the mark of the beast.
www in greek (sometimes in hebrew, antichrist specialist aren´t sure) = 666

and if you hold the german ID against a lamp you can see that the eagel´s tail clearly represents an upside down cross.

armageddon is near.

[salm]

I would support not only the implantation of the chips, but also issuance or purchase of a scanner by anyone that would scan another person's chip for data which would indicate presence of HIV and other contagious diseases. I mean, come on, invasion of privacy that it is, don't you all think this would go a LONG fucking way to stopping the spread of the disease? The scanner you can buy can be configured to ONLY pick up whether the person is infected with like, HIV, Hep A, Hep C, etc. man, would that save some fucking lives....

wouldn´t work.
the chips dont diagnose, they only store data, the doctors put there.
so if someone has aids but hasn´t been diagnose by a doctor there won´t be any info about hiv in there.
condoms are better than the type of scanners you propose.

[Chardok]

the chips dont diagnose, they only store data, the doctors put there.
so if someone has aids but hasn´t been diagnose by a doctor there won´t be any info about hiv in there.
condoms are better than the type of scanners you propose.

Right, I got that, but how hard would it be to encode that info into the chip. I'm talking about specifically a yes or no (1 or 0) when the scanner hits it for HIV? You know what I mean, like, I know that the chip as it is right now wouldn't be able to provide that info, but it could, and quite easily, too.