NY Times: Guantanemo Prisoners Abused

[Stravo]

NY Times: Detainees at Guantanamo stripped, shackled
Coercion and abusive treatment described by former official at prison
Saturday, October 16, 2004 Posted: 10:45 PM EDT (0245 GMT)


NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Uncooperative Guantanamo Bay detainees were regularly subjected to highly abusive treatment over a long period of time, unidentified guards at the U.S. military base, intelligence agents and others who worked in the prison told The New York Times.

U.S. military officials have long maintained such treatment had occurred in isolated cases and was not common.

Prisoners at the Cuban base include those captured in Afghanistan and Iraq and suspected of association with or membership in extremist organizations. Human rights groups have criticized the United States for indefinitely detaining prisoners at the base, most without charges or legal representation.

Earlier this year, photographs of U.S. personnel abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad generated outrage around the world.

The Times reported in its Sunday editions that prisoners at Guantanamo deemed uncooperative were stripped to their underwear, shackled hand and foot to a bolt in the floor and forced to endure strobe lights and loud music played from close loudspeakers, while the air conditioning was turned up to maximum levels for periods as long as 14 hours.

The treatment was described to the newspaper by a military official who said he witnessed the procedure and others who said they participated in the techniques, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity.

"It fried them," the newspaper quoted the official as saying. The unidentified official told the newspaper he spoke because of anger over the treatment of the prisoners.

Pentagon officials would not comment on the details of the Guantanamo allegations, the Times said.

The Defense Department said in a statement quoted by the Times that the military was providing a "safe, humane and professional detention operation at Guantanamo."

I've always felt that the situation in Guantenemo would one day come back and bute everyone in the ass. The deafening silence coming from there has always troubled me. Unless you have access to Cuban media sources whoch have been saying there's funky things going on in there since day one. And Yes I'm aware that its Cuba saying this but reports like these can no longer be simply ignored since Abu Graid.

[MKSheppard]

I've always felt that the situation in Guantenemo would one day come back and bute everyone in the ass.

Like these assholes being let out of Gitmo, and then showing up weeks later
fighting american forces in A-Stan.

Linkypoo

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — A former inmate at the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay (search), Cuba, who returned to Afghanistan to rejoin the Taliban as a key commander, was killed along with two fellow fighters in a raid by Afghan security forces, two senior officials said Sunday.

[Sokartawi]

Has already been said allover the place that if the prisoners do not cooperate they will not give them clothing, food or sanitation, and that they will lock them up in complete dark alternating with bright flashing lights, and the uncomfortable positions, hourly cavity searches and extreme noise treatment was also confirmed about a year ago, yet no-one gives a damn.

IF they ever get a trial they will say whatever they want them to say.

[MKSheppard]

yet no-one gives a damn.

Becuase they want to create a fascistic theocracy under Sheriat law, no one
gives a fuck about them.

[Sokartawi]

So, MKSheppard, if the laws matter, how about starting with basic human rights?

Oh wait, you need linkylink, boo hiss!

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News ... 81,00.html
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq ... 39,00.html
http://www.mcrcnet.org/Reports/072004/h ... 072004.htm

for a start...

[MKSheppard]

So, MKSheppard, if the laws matter, how about starting with basic human rights?

Human rights do not apply to illegal combatants. We can legally execute them.

[Sokartawi]

So, MKSheppard, if the laws matter, how about starting with basic human rights?

Human rights do not apply to illegal combatants. We can legally execute them.

Execute perhaps, torture no.

[MKSheppard]

Execute perhaps, torture no.

As I said before, human rights do not apply to them

[Sokartawi]

Execute perhaps, torture no.

As I said before, human rights do not apply to them

BURDEN OF PROOF!

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

And yet no one realizes how many people are wrongly imprisoned there. Hell, we don't even know thatBECAUSE THE UNITED NAZI STATES OF AMERIKKKA WON'T TRY THE POOR FUCKERS IN A COURT OF LAW!!!

[MKSheppard]

BURDEN OF PROOF!

All you've posted is a bunch of pro-jihadist websites; while Geneva is clear; they
are not wearing uniforms, just dirty greasy rags, so we can shoot them as
spies, et al, or do whatever we want.

[MKSheppard]

And yet no one realizes how many people are wrongly imprisoned there.

PLease excuse me, one does not get to Guantimino bay unless you are actively shooting against US troops somewhere in the world. So wrongful imprisonment is wrong term to use.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

And yet no one realizes how many people are wrongly imprisoned there.

PLease excuse me, one does not get to Guantimino bay unless you are actively shooting against US troops somewhere in the world. So wrongful imprisonment is wrong term to use.

Why do I keep hearing reports of people wrongly imprisoned there then? Like the British journalist recently or the Americans locked up there? Sounds to me all you need to do to get to Gitmo is get caught between some American troops and the AQ bastards in Afghanistan. Troops in combat are known to make mistakes.

[Falkenhayn]

And yet no one realizes how many people are wrongly imprisoned there. Hell, we don't even know thatBECAUSE THE UNITED NAZI STATES OF AMERIKKKA WON'T TRY THE POOR FUCKERS IN A COURT OF LAW!!!

Why do you have to couch a valid point in childish rhetoric?

[Gustav32Vasa]

Execute perhaps, torture no.

As I said before, human rights do not apply to them

They are not humans?

[Sokartawi]

BURDEN OF PROOF!

All you've posted is a bunch of pro-jihadist websites;

PROVE they are pro-jihadist!

while Geneva is clear; they
are not wearing uniforms, just dirty greasy rags, so we can shoot them as
spies, et al, or do whatever we want.

This has nothing to do with the Geneva convention, the US is violating the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Being Subjected to Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (G.A. res. 3452 (XXX), annex, 30 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 34) at 91, U.N. Doc. A/10034) treaty dating from 1975:

Article 3

No State may permit or tolerate torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Exceptional circumstances such as a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency may not be invoked as a justification of torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Or how about the Inter-American Convention to Prevent and Punish Torture treaty (renamed Basic Documents Pertaining to Human Rights in the Inter-American System, OEA/Ser.L.V/II.82 doc.6 rev.1 at 83)?

Article 5
The existence of circumstances such as a state of war, threat of war, state of siege or of emergency, domestic disturbance or strife, suspension of constitutional guarantees, domestic political instability, or other public emergencies or disasters shall not be invoked or admitted as justification for the crime of torture.

Neither the dangerous character of the detainee or prisoner, nor the lack of security of the prison establishment or penitentiary shall justify torture.

Boo yah!

[aerius]

Somehow, I quit caring about those prisoners after the beheadings started. Frankly I wouldn't lose any sleep if they were all executed.

[Edi]

You can fuck off, Shep, you're just spouting bullshit as usual. Yeah, one guilty nutcase was released and later wound up killed when he went back to Afghanistan. That has fuck-all relevance to the treatment of the other prisoners.

Besides, your own fucking constitution guarantees due process. That guarantee is not restricted to American citizens only. non-POWs are not subject to the US military justice system, which leaves just the civilian justice system, which the White House has been ignoring (up to and including a court ruling from a Federal court that says their actions are illegal and unconstitutional).

Edi

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

[Edi]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

Yeah, I know, and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief at the fuckwits who keep blindly making up justifications for its existence and then cry "Constitution! Bill of Rights! How DARE you try and touch <insert pet issue here>!"

It's been clear from day one what the intent of that camp was, which is exactly what you said.

Edi

[aerius]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

It is cold-blooded, and damn smart too. Put it on US soil and before you know it the lawyers will be vulturing in on it like it's not even funny, it'll be a goddamn media circus. You thought the OJ Simpson trial was bad? The shitstorm will be million times worse than the OJ case. Then try finding an impartial jury. Then consider politicians putting in the fix for election points. Damn smart of them for thinking ahead and putting the prisoners out of sight.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

Yeah, I know, and all I can do is shake my head in disbelief at the fuckwits who keep blindly making up justifications for its existence and then cry "Constitution! Bill of Rights! How DARE you try and touch <insert pet issue here>!"

It's been clear from day one what the intent of that camp was, which is exactly what you said.

Edi

Didn't a country y'all's way have a very similar problem sixty years ago with a nation building KZs with names like Dachau, Buchenwald, and Auschwitz-Birkenau? At least they didn't hide the fact or attempt to sidestep laws designed to prevent it from happening.

Oh wait, WE had that HERE at the same time too, except they called them 'internment camps'. Before that we had the hundreds of years of conquest and internment of the native people of this continent, nearly resulting in their extinction! Seems there's a long and glorious history here of locking people up in giant cages simply because the government doesn't like the group they belong to...

[Aaron]

Human rights do not apply to illegal combatants. We can legally execute them.

Wait just a second there buddy. Before you can execute someone you have to prove that they are illegal combatnants before a tribunal.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

It is cold-blooded, and damn smart too. Put it on US soil and before you know it the lawyers will be vulturing in on it like it's not even funny, it'll be a goddamn media circus. You thought the OJ Simpson trial was bad? The shitstorm will be million times worse than the OJ case. Then try finding an impartial jury. Then consider politicians putting in the fix for election points. Damn smart of them for thinking ahead and putting the prisoners out of sight.

We NEED the shitstorm, we NEED the lawyers defending their rights, and we NEED all the unholy hell it would cause. If it results in measures taken to ensure that this shit never happens again, then it would have only done good.

[Edi]

That's why the camp in in Gitmo in the first place, Edi. It was DESIGNED FROM THE START to deny anyone housed there any chance whatsoever of Constitutionally-mandated due process. Tell me if that's not cold-blooded.

It is cold-blooded, and damn smart too. Put it on US soil and before you know it the lawyers will be vulturing in on it like it's not even funny, it'll be a goddamn media circus. You thought the OJ Simpson trial was bad? The shitstorm will be million times worse than the OJ case. Then try finding an impartial jury. Then consider politicians putting in the fix for election points. Damn smart of them for thinking ahead and putting the prisoners out of sight.

You ignore that US military bases are considered US soil. US laws apply there, and breaking them can land you in prison. Commit murder on a US base abroad, and you will be hauled up into court on murder charges in the applicable jurisdiction.

The argument that just because it isn't in CONUS, Hawaii or a few assorted other islands the US owns doesn't mean fuck all, because the area is still under sole US jurisdiction, hence the US laws (of which the Constitution is the FIRST AND FOREMOST) apply. There is no bullshitting around this fact. You might generally be a good debater, Aerius, but in this case you are just plain fucking wrong. The only way that argument can even be made is through dishonest sophistry or ignorance of relevant legal theory and first principles. You are making the argument out of ignorance, the Bush administration is making it out of dishonest sophistry.

Edi