Cabinet turns on Abbot (AU)

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-15 10:02pm

This story is probably only of interest to other Australians, but no matter.

Link to story.

Cabinet turns on Abbot (The Australian) wrote:A SERIES of damaging personality rifts has emerged in the Howard Government following a heated debate in cabinet on abortion and after little-known Victorian MP David Hawker was surprisingly elected as parliamentary speaker.

Health Minister Tony Abbott, a prime mover behind plans to reduce the number of abortions in Australia, was on the receiving end of sharp criticism from several pro-choice cabinet ministers.

It is understood that Communications Minister Helen Coonan and Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone were particularly strident in their support for the Government's current approach on abortion.

Other senior ministers, including Treasurer Peter Costello and Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, also weighed into the debate, amid concerns it was distracting the Government as parliament resumed.

As the Coalition's political capital -- won following its emphatic election win -- began to be tarnished, John Howard signalled that he wanted to drag the Government back to its core reform agenda of industrial relations and national security.

...

The Prime Minister, before yesterday's cabinet debate, had ruled out any government-led changes to abortion laws.

Mr Abbott, a close ally of Mr Howard, could not be contacted last night. But well-placed sources claim the tenor of the cabinet debate was that Mr Abbott was not behaving like a team player.

Anti-abortion MPs, including Mr Abbott, Special Minister of State Eric Abetz and South Australian frontbencher Christopher Pyne are now likely to drop any plans to try to change federal laws.

Another strong critic of the present regime, Liberal MP Alan Cadman, said he was dropping any plans to introduce a private member's bill on the abortion issue.

"I want success in this area," Mr Cadman told The Australian. "We need to find a process to obtain better information. (But) I'm not going to do it immediately, because I think it would be unwise to, I think it would be divisive." (in other words, you can't fucking win so you're going to table it until some other time - Stofsk)

Now, big whoop - this is Australia, so it's not like anything that happens here really matters. But in the news down here for the last couple of weeks, Tony Abbot has been excelling himself with this clownish position on abortion. Why do I say clownish? In a press release he claimed that Australia has 100'000 abortions a year, without providing proof, without citing a source until much later - when it was revealed the number was lower, and several years out of date - while contrary sources rose up an automatically challenged his 100K figure. And yes, he happens to be a fundie.

So frankly, any heat he gets I'm all the more happy for. Incidentally the Governor-general Michael Jeffrey came out opposed to abortion, but IIRC didn't advocate changing the laws to stop it, but increasing sexual education with an emphasis on contraceptives. Naturally, the Sunday Herald Sun ran with an inflammatory headline, just to prove they're pricks. At any rate I would welcome increased emphasis on sex-ed, particularly in religious private schools like the ones I went to.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2004-11-15 10:36pm

I'm pleased that Howard is attempting to bring this guy back in line. I cannot for the life of me think how Abbott thought he'd get support for this sort of move. I guess the other thing is we know how most pollies distort the truth and the like, but for Abbott to use out of date an innaccurate data to support a move to change a federal law is just scary. Maybe he thought that because they'd have majority in both houses then he could push that sort of draconian law through.

Though I hate to say it, good for you howard, keep your house in order

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-15 10:45pm

I would like to see the rate of abortions go down, because to get an abortion is such a hard thing for a woman to make, and contraceptives are a good tool in which to see this rate go down. It appears as though abortions ARE going down anyway, so the basis for Abbot's position is itself unnecessary. When fewer women are getting abortions this year from last year, how the hell can you claim there's an 'abortion epidemic' in the country with any self respect? Yes, he really did say that.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-15 10:59pm

It's good to see that being a dishonest shithead is not an exclusively North American phenomena.

Good thing the rest of the government is slapping him down.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2004-11-15 10:59pm

I just can't believe he came forward with that with such lame evidence. Were his underlings asleep or something at the time? If your going to put forward a statement like that, you'd think he would have made sure that he had some concrete and up to date evidence.

I didnt know about our falling abortion rate, I think thats great. Maybe all the sex education is paying off and people are actually giving serious attention to it. I just despair when I see in my town the large amount of 16 year old mothers. Its not fair on any of the parties. But then, I live in a rural town, so maybe its not unexpected.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 02:20am

What I can't believe is that he's actually getting slapped down by Howard, the man who wanted to put a reference to the christian god into our constitution.

I'm not sure how recently you all graduated from high school, but up in Queensland, at least where I went, the sex-ed program was pretty...well....shit. And was only in our junior years too. In contrast, religious ed (all christian of course) was apparently so important that we lost a class for 3-6 months every year just to attend it. Thankfully, if you objected, you weren't required to attend, but more than a few in the administration attempted to make the one or two in every grade who objected outcast. Not the kind of behaviour I expected in a school where only 1/3 of the students were caucasian, and apparently less than 2/3 of the student body were born in the country.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-16 02:36am

Awww, c'mon; AU sex ed is fine... #1 class for girls showing off

I'm surprised Howard is paying enough attention to even know what Abbotts been saying. I'm even more surprised he gives a shit. He respects the general public... since when? There's an angle here, I can smell it.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 02:48am

Perhaps it matters more who the teacher is for the subject. Afterall, there's not exactly a set cirriculum for the sex ed classes, is there?

[conspiricy nut] Wasn't there some rumour a while back that Howard wanted to change the constitution to allow him to run for another term? Obviously he'd need to be in the publics good graces to pull that one off. [/cn]

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2004-11-16 03:04am

*blink, blink*

Do we actually have a term limit? I'm fairly sure we don't.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-16 03:08am

GeneralTacticus wrote:*blink, blink*

Do we actually have a term limit? I'm fairly sure we don't.

I am pretty sure Archaic is having a little joke. We do not have a term limit, I'm fairly certain.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 03:24am

*Blinks, and slowly puts away the can of Chuhai*
I don't have my government or law textbooks here with me in Japan, but I thought I remembered something about a term limit. Now that I look at the election dates though, obviously that's impossible. Please excuse my momentary bout of idiocy.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-11-16 03:25am

Howard might not have a term limit, but he's sure got a use-by date.

Haw haw haw

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 04:37am

Speaking of which....just who the hell can they hope to replace Howard with once he bows out?

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2004-11-16 04:56am

Costello? He certainly wants the job. Dunno how well it would work, though.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2004-11-16 06:26am

GeneralTacticus wrote:Costello? He certainly wants the job. Dunno how well it would work, though.

Costello would, contrar to popular belief, actually be pretty good, he is fiscally conservative and socially liberal, which are a good combination. Also he is pro republic and maybe will give us a real republic referendum (one with a simple do you want australia to become a republic yes/no question)

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 07:16am

Socially liberal? Is he? Didn't he make some anti-gay rights statements a while back? There was some claim about declining religion being the cause of an increasing divorce rate too.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2004-11-16 07:21am

Wait a minute...Australia has two politicians...named Abbot...and Costello?!?

Heeeey Abbbbbooottt!

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-16 07:38am

Fuck, that's hilarious.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2004-11-16 07:43am

Im surprised you've never heard that before

Ah poor Costello, waiting in the wings. He was so hoping howard would retire. It was fun watching the news broadcasts of him doing interviews...I fully expected him to stamp his feet and go " Its not faaaair! He told me I could be neeexxxt!"

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2004-11-16 08:03am

Archaic` wrote:Socially liberal? Is he? Didn't he make some anti-gay rights statements a while back? There was some claim about declining religion being the cause of an increasing divorce rate too.

Well I'm pretty sure he is more socially liberal than the rest of the party (particularly Abbott, Pyne and Draper).

That said his brother is a priest/pastor something or other, so maybe I'm wrong about his social liberal attitudes.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-16 08:11am

Mr Flibble wrote:
Archaic` wrote:Socially liberal? Is he? Didn't he make some anti-gay rights statements a while back? There was some claim about declining religion being the cause of an increasing divorce rate too.
Well I'm pretty sure he is more socially liberal than the rest of the party (particularly Abbott, Pyne and Draper).

When compared next to Abbot, he sounds socially liberal for sure. And the Liberal Party is liberal, silly.

Well, classically liberal, at any rate...

That said his brother is a priest/pastor something or other, so maybe I'm wrong about his social liberal attitudes.

The Reverend Tim Costello, who isn't a bad guy from what I recall. At least, I haven't read anything saying otherwise, but you never know...

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2004-11-16 08:29am

What I can't believe is that he's actually getting slapped down by Howard, the man who wanted to put a reference to the christian god into our constitution.

Sorry to disappoint you, God's already in the constitution. The argument used for it was that "God" could be used to refer to any god and not necessarily specifically for the Christian God.

The Preamble to the Australian Constitution wrote:WHEREAS the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and under the Constitution hereby established:

Costello? He certainly wants the job. Dunno how well it would work, though.

I don't know if this is relevant to any discussion, but I keep on dreaming that John Howard retires and Malcom Turnbull becomes Prime Minister.

That said his brother is a priest/pastor something or other, so maybe I'm wrong about his social liberal attitudes.

his brother being a pastor means squat. Bob Hawke's father was a priest, and Hawke himself was an unashamed atheist. (My grandma said that it shocked the Americans she met mightily.

)

I think it's pretty poor that the attacks on abortion are coming through late-term abortion. I think it's an attempt to get the foot in the gateway, so to speak. I think they're trying to say "people shouldn't abort babies that we can now save with medical invervention", and meanwhile trying to create laws that are a bit more 'comprehensive'.

When compared next to Abbot, he sounds socially liberal for sure. And the Liberal Party is liberal, silly. Well, classically liberal, at any rate...

I thought that the Liberal party was ironic as only Australians can be in that it was actually the conservative party.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-11-16 08:42am

Lusankya wrote:I thought that the Liberal party was ironic as only Australians can be in that it was actually the conservative party.

Well, kind of. Classical Liberalism is conservative when you compare it next to socialism and social liberalism, but it's isn't truly conservative. It's more centrist IMO. Something like Family First, One Nation, and even the National Party is more conservative than the LP. I guess I could point out how the left-wing Democrat Party was formed by so-called 'small L' liberals in the Liberal Party.

And in some respects, so is the ALP. Howard didn't support gay marriage for example, but then Latham and the ALP didn't offer a contrary POV and actually agreed about gay rights.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2004-11-16 09:53am

Lusankya wrote:his brother being a pastor means squat. Bob Hawke's father was a priest, and Hawke himself was an unashamed atheist. (My grandma said that it shocked the Americans she met mightily. )

He was an atheist? Oo; I knew about his world record for alcohol consumption, but I didn't know about that. Guess I was still too little to take notice of that sort of stuff at the time though.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » 2004-11-16 03:32pm

Lusankya wrote:
Mr Flibble wrote:]That said his brother is a priest/pastor something or other, so maybe I'm wrong about his social liberal attitudes.
his brother being a pastor means squat. Bob Hawke's father was a priest, and Hawke himself was an unashamed atheist. (My grandma said that it shocked the Americans she met mightily. )

Yeah it probable means nothing. Hawke being an atheist whilst also being son of a priest is not surprising, PKs (priest/pastor kids) tend to either become very religious or very non religious, I should know I am one, and I'm an unashamed atheist myself.