Mom sues Wal-Mart over daughter's suicide

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Mom sues Wal-Mart over daughter's suicide

Post by Solauren »

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Mom sues Wal-Mart over daughter's suicide
Schizophrenic woman bought gun at store

DALLAS, Texas (AP) -- Near the end of her short life, Shayla Stewart, a diagnosed manic-depressive and schizophrenic, assaulted police officers and was arrested for attacking a fellow customer at a Denton Wal-Mart where she had a prescription for anti-psychotic medication.

Given all those signs, her parents say, another Wal-Mart just seven miles away should have never sold her the shotgun she used to kill herself at age 24 in 2003.

Her mother, Lavern Bracy, is suing the world's biggest store chain for $25 million, saying clerks should have known about her daughter's illness or done more to find out.

The case, filed earlier this month, has reignited a debate over the confidentiality of mental health records and the effectiveness of background checks on would-be buyers of guns.

"We know that if they had so much as said, `Why do you want this?' we would not be having this conversation because Shayla would have had a meltdown," said her stepfather, Garrett Bracy.

The Bracys said Wal-Mart's gun department could have checked Wal-Mart's own security files or the pharmacy department's prescription records before selling her the weapon.

Wal-Mart spokeswoman Christi Gallagher declined to comment on the lawsuit.

But pharmacy prescription records are confidential under a 1996 federal law, so stores cannot use them when deciding whether to sell a gun.

Also, Wal-Mart did a background check on Stewart, as required under federal law, but through no fault of its own, her name did not show up in the FBI database. The reason: The database contains no mental health records from Texas and 37 other states.

Texas does not submit mental health records because state law deems them confidential, said Paul Mascot, an attorney with the Texas Department of State Health Services. Other states have not computerized their record-keeping systems or do not store them in a central location for use by the FBI.

Federal law prohibits stores from selling guns to people who, like Stewart, have a history of serious mental illness.

Would-be buyers must fill out a form that asks about mental health. Stewart, who had been involuntarily committed to an institution and declared dangerously mentally ill by a judge, lied on that form, according to her mother's attorney's office. Wal-Mart ran a background check anyway, as required by federal law.

Michael Faenza, president and chief executive of the National Mental Health Association, applauds Texas' refusal to share information with the FBI database. He said it would not be fair to violate patients' privacy when there is no data to support claims that mentally ill people are more violent than others.

"The tragedies that families face when people are killed is terrible. And frankly I wish handguns were not so available in this country," he said. "But it's not right, in our minds, to make social policy based on just a few cases."

Garrett Bracy couldn't disagree more.

He and his wife watched his stepdaughter's six-year decline from straight-A high school student to violent and unpredictable stranger. She was hospitalized five times, twice under court orders. Her longest hospitalization, lasting a month, came in 2002 after she refused to leave her room or take her medication.

The suggestion that Wal-Mart should have checked prescription records infuriates Erich Pratt, a spokesman for the Virginia-based group Gun Owners of America.

"Does that mean mental illness prevents everyone on Prozac from owning a gun? Or women with PMS?" he said.

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-New York, who ran for Congress after her husband was killed and son wounded in 1993 by a gunman on a Long Island Rail Road train, wants to strengthen the federal background check system by encouraging states to share mental health records. She has introduced legislation that would give states grants to automate and turn over the information.

She drafted the bill after a priest and a parishioner were shot to death by a schizophrenic man in a New York church in 2002. He, too, should not have been allowed to buy a gun.

"When you see these deaths that could have been prevented it's a shame," McCarthy said.

As the Bracys prepare for another Christmas without their daughter, they are urging lawmakers to support McCarthy's bill and dealers to conduct their own background checks.

"Lavern went to the store the other day to buy over-the-counter headache sinus medication and they limited the amount of sinus medication she could buy at one time," her husband said, his voice trembling with emotion. "But Shayla can walk into a store and buy a gun and they could care less. That's got to change."

Hey, Mom of a nut case. Newsflash, it's TEXAS. You can get guns by opening a bank account.
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Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

1. Wal-Mart DID check the Database.

2. Why do they need to psychologically evaluate all of their customers? "Oh, you want some detergent? Well, do this study, talk to a therapist, and you'll get the dtergent in maybe a week..."
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Post by Glocksman »

All I can say is that the parents are understandably grieving, but they're also full of shit.

At least Wal-Mart can afford the costly legal battle.
Imagine what would have happened if she bought the gun in a perfectly legal private sale between individuals?
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

I blame the state of Texas. No one with a record of serious mental illness should be passing background checks. With the current law there is nothing more Wal-Mart could have done short of simply not selling firearms.
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Post by Glocksman »

Wicked Pilot wrote:I blame the state of Texas. No one with a record of serious mental illness should be passing background checks. With the current law there is nothing more Wal-Mart could have done short of simply not selling firearms.
But you can't sue the State of Texas in a case like this.
You can sue Wal-Mart and hope they find it cheaper to settle than to fight.

I for one hope Wally World elects to fight it.
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Post by CmdrWilkens »

It is a situation with seemingly no real win-win scenario. On one hand you have patient's confidentiality. I don't think anyone here would really like their medical records subject to review by the FBI. On the other hadn, of course, you have the need for strict controls in the background check process. If the law deems that someone must undergo a background check to buy a weapon then the mechanism for that check to be performed must be in place else its just an empty letter of the law.

personally I think there has to be some means for an annotation to be made in the FBI's database that a person is not allowed to buy a firearm without giving the supporting documentation. Obviously this would neccesitate a means of checking on one's eligibility in case an accidental entry was made but I think its the only compromise postion out there.
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Post by Joe »

So if she had hung herself instead, would they be suing whoever sold her the noose?
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Post by Stormbringer »

Joe wrote:So if she had hung herself instead, would they be suing whoever sold her the noose?
Probably. As unfortunate as it is it sounds to me like this bitch was looking to ease her greif with a fat pay out regardless of the facts.

Personally I hope Wal-Mart sues the bitch right back for stupidity and legal harassment.
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Post by weemadando »

Gun Control - its whats for breakfast...
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

lol, the company "Christmas party" just gave my ex-gf a weapon... (an aussie type knife) watch it Ando may start getting on one of his gun control bandwagons and start attacking us with a sword...

I told her son he had better watch himself...
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Post by weemadando »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:lol, the company "Christmas party" just gave my ex-gf a weapon... (an aussie type knife) watch it Ando may start getting on one of his gun control bandwagons and start attacking us with a sword...

I told her son he had better watch himself...
No, my gun control bandwagon has already left town on this thread. It just too stupid for me...
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Post by Broomstick »

Someone determined to kill him/herself is going to do it unless you lock them up. And sometimes even then.

My sister had a phobia about driving cars (like, a couple times she got in the driver's seat of a car that wasn't even turned on and passed out level of phobia) and didn't own one, or a garage. Yet she killed herself by running a car in a garage with the door closed. (And no, the neighbor was not happy about my sister "borrowing' those items) I guess she got around the "driving phobia" because she wasn't going anywhere. And they did, if I recall correctly, find her in the passenger seat.

Anyhow - the parents are upset and grieving, yeah. They're also making the all-too-common mistake of acting like the employees of a company are part of some sort of hive mind. There was no way for the clerk selling the gun to know they woman was mental.

If the girl is so whacked out maybe she shouldn't have been out and about unsupervised....?

Sounds to me like they want to blame someone other than their daughter for her death. And, as someone who has lost a loved one to suicide, I can understand that. It would be easier if the guilty party and the victim were not one and the same. But at a certain point you have to grip reality firmly by the throat and stare the monster in the face. Their daughter was seriously, seriously ill and she died of her illness, NOT because the law wasn't strong enough or because a store clerk wasn't conscientious enough.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

Much as I hate and despise Wal-Mart, this wasn't there fault, but it does raise some important questions about gun control. Manic-depressives and schizos should not be able to buy guns.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

HemlockGrey wrote:Much as I hate and despise Wal-Mart, this wasn't there fault, but it does raise some important questions about gun control. Manic-depressives and schizos should not be able to buy guns.
no, they shouldn't. The State of Texas fucked up on this. Still, Manic Depreeives and schitzos can kill themselves just as easily with rope, a kitchen knife or an entire bottle of Zoloft.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Broomstick wrote:Someone determined to kill him/herself is going to do it unless you lock them up. And sometimes even then.
With razor blades, rope, and Draino you're pretty much limited to yourself. Someone mental with a firearm can easily take down a few others before they go themselves.
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Post by Glocksman »

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Someone determined to kill him/herself is going to do it unless you lock them up. And sometimes even then.
With razor blades, rope, and Draino you're pretty much limited to yourself. Someone mental with a firearm can easily take down a few others before they go themselves.
Or a car. Plowing into a crowd with your SUV is pretty effective :p

But the question this episode raises is precisely the one that CmdrWilkens stated:

Namely, what's the balance between the confidentiality of medical records and needed information being submitted to the NICS database in order to make it effective.

From the article, it appears that Texas law prohibits the release of mental patient records. This would explain why the parents aren't suing the state. Sovereign immunity would merely make that suit a waste of paper. Ditto for suing the Feds. That leaves Wal-Mart as the remaining deep pocketed defendant.

Should Texas law be changed?
If nothing else, involuntary commitments should be submitted for inclusion into the NICS database.
IMHO, other mental health records should remain private. Don't forget these privacy laws were passed originally as a result of the abuse of patient confidentiality back in the 60's and 70's.
It's none of the FBI's business that I was on Prozac for 3 months right after my Mother died back in 2000.

But the parents' claim that Wal-Mart should keep a 'psychos database' on their customers and make pharmacy records available to the lowliest clerk is just ludicrous. :roll:
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Post by Durandal »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:Much as I hate and despise Wal-Mart, this wasn't there fault, but it does raise some important questions about gun control. Manic-depressives and schizos should not be able to buy guns.
no, they shouldn't. The State of Texas fucked up on this. Still, Manic Depreeives and schitzos can kill themselves just as easily with rope, a kitchen knife or an entire bottle of Zoloft.
Yeah, but with a shotgun, they can kill other people too. The fact that that did not happen in this particular case doesn't mean that it's not a legitimate concern. This woman should never have passed a background check.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

The problem is, Durandal, mental health recods can not be made public without violating federal law. Have you ever heard of HIPAA?
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Post by Coyote »

I always thought that anyone that suffers from a mental problem of sufficient severity that they would be disbarred the ownership of firearms should have a non-specific "red flag" on their background check.

No one would need to know exactly why they are not allowed to buy a gun-- they'd just be told that there's a red-flag and give them a number to call if they think it is in error. The gun dealer would have no idea what it was for, and that would be that.

But then I'd also make the NICS nationwide and also mandate that mental health problems like that be included...
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Post by Glocksman »

NICS is nationwide.
The only thing a dealer hears from NICS when he runs the check is 'Proceed', 'Denied', or 'Delayed'.

NICS Fact Sheet
Located at the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, the NICS Section processes background checks for the FFLs in those states that have declined to serve as POCs for the NICS. The FFLs conducting business in these states will contact the NICS either by telephone, via one of two contracted call centers, or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet. When contacting the NICS by telephone, the FFL will provide the prospective After contacting the NICS, via two contracted call centers, either by telephone or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet, FFLs will provide the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473, which is required by law to be completed and signed by every prospective firearm transferee. The prospective firearm transferee's descriptive information is required descriptive , the FFL will receive a response that the transfer may proceed or is delayed. This response is typically provided within 30 seconds.

If no matching records are returned by any of the databases, the transaction is automatically proceeded. If the NICS returns a match of the prospective firearm transferee's descriptive information to that of record information located in any of the databases, the FFL is advised that the transaction is delayed. While the FFL is still on the telephone, the call is placed on hold and transferred to the NICS Section in Clarksburg, West Virginia, for a quick review and evaluation by an FBI NICS Legal Instruments Examiner (NICS Examiner). If the record information returned by the NICS presents a valid match to the descriptive information of the prospective firearm transferee, the NICS Examiners, who have access to protected information (as opposed to Call Center personnel who do not have such access) reviews the information if state and federal firearm prohibitive criteria exists. If the information matched by the NICS is not a valid match or no prohibitive criteria exists, the FBI NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to PROCEED with the firearm transaction. The FFL must record the NICS Transaction Number (NTN) on the ATF Form 4473 and retain the form for auditing purposes.

If it is determined that prohibitive criteria exists, the FBI NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DENY the firearm transaction. If potentially prohibitive criteria exists and more information is required in order to make the determination, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DELAY the firearm transaction and the call is concluded. The FFL must record the NTN on the ATF Form 4473 and retain the form for auditing purposes.

When a transaction is DELAYED, the FBI NICS Examiner begins extensive research on the potential prohibitor. When the research is complete, the FBI NICS Examiner calls the FFL and gives a PROCEED or DENY decision on the firearm transaction.

On the third business day of a DELAYED transaction, the NICS Examiner is required to call the FFL and advise him/her of their rights under the Brady Act to transfer the firearm after the third business day. If the delayed transaction cannot be resolved within the allowed three business days, it is at the discretion of the FFL whether to allow the firearm transfer. However, the NICS Section continues to research the case in an effort to obtain complete disposition information. Business days do not include the day the check was initiated Saturdays, Sundays, and any day state offices in the state of purchase are closed.
The problem in this case is that under Texas law, mental health records are deemed confidential and can't be automatically forwarded to the FBI for inclusion in the NICS database. IMHO, that law should be amended to permit the forwarding of involuntary commitment records.
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Post by Knife »

I think I was watching Fox News *please hold your boo's* and they had the attorney for the agrievied. Anyway, the lawyer was babbling about how a few weeks earlier, the daughter was in a scuffle at another Wal Mar, some 6 miles up the road, and that because of this scuffle, the Comapny should have known that the girl was unbalenced and as such not sold the weapon to her.

At that point, I think I don't want any company to have access to my records to such an extent.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Why is it only stupid people seem to be suing walmart?
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Durandal wrote:
Yeah, but with a shotgun, they can kill other people too.
You can kill other people with anything you want. Take this for example, which was not prevented by some of the stricted gun control in the world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 376982.stm
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Post by HemlockGrey »

:roll:

It's a lot easier to kill people with a shotgun than it is with a knife, and "knife massacres" are rather rare compared to shootings.
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Post by Stormbringer »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Why is it only stupid people seem to be suing walmart?
Because it caters heavily to the stupid, white trash crowd?
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