One of Poland's most famous newspaper editors, Jerzy Urban, will find out on Tuesday whether he will be imprisoned for criticising Pope John Paul II.
Mr Urban wrote a satirical article calling the Pope "the Brezhnev of the Vatican" and an "impotent old man".
In the first criminal trial of its kind in Poland, he has been charged with publicly insulting a head of state.
If found guilty, he faces between three months and three years in prison.
The press freedom group Reporters without Borders says a prosecution would violate free expression and set a "dangerous precedent for a European Union member state".
Taboo breached
A former spokesman for the last Communist government of Poland, Mr Urban's distinctive bald head and protruding ears are a familiar sight to most Poles, says the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw.
The 71-year-old is now better known as the editor-in-chief of the weekly newspaper Nie - which means No in English.
The offending article, titled Walking Sadomasochism, was published in 2002, on the eve of the Polish-born Pope's last visit to his homeland. It provoked numerous complaints.
Almost any public criticism of the Pope is taboo in Poland, such is his high standing among Poles, our correspondent says.
The prosecuting lawyer has asked the judge to impose a ten-month suspended prison sentence and a $6,000 fine.
Publicly insulting a head of state is to be a crime, fuck, remind me never to visit poland.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Thanks for the reminder. The fact that this is an EU member state really pisses me off.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Robert Walper wrote:Great. Going back to the Dark Ages. What's next? Burning him at the stake?
Don't you think you're being a tad bit hysterical? The article says he's on trial, not that he's been found guilty. Of course the trial itself is fucking retarded. If insulted a head of state is a crime then throw everyone in jail, because we've likely all had the opportunity to sling mud at a leader.
Does the EU have rules regarding separation of Church and State? Or am I too optimistic?
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mr friendly guy wrote:Does the EU have rules regarding separation of Church and State? Or am I too optimistic?
Poland is our version of the deep american South, give us a break here. If the guy loses the trial and appeals to the ECJ, they'll teach Poland a thing or two, goddamned slow learners newbies.
mr friendly guy wrote:Does the EU have rules regarding separation of Church and State? Or am I too optimistic?
Poland is our version of the deep american South, give us a break here.
Even worse than Ireland?
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People, it's not about insulting the head of state. The peole who started this shit couldn't care less if a newspaper editor insulted someone like Chirac or Blair or whatever - it's the fact it's the POPE that gets people riled up. He's a sacred cow to many, which pissed me and a lot of people to no end.
It's not the first trial of it's kind, either. There was a matter of a female artist who created a "piece of art" (more like a piece of shit, to be honest, but not deserving fucking jail), consisting of male genitals drawn inside a cross (the Christian kind).
What's scary is not the thing that she was tried, but that she was found guilty of insulting religious feelings or some bullshit like this. You wouldn't believe the outrage this caused amongst the intelligentia.
Now, there are the ever-present issues of gay rights, abortion laws, separation of church and state, etc. that you would expect of fundie land, but to be honest - overt religious zeal is not all that visible in public life, safe for sacred cows like the goddamned Pope. To tell you the truth, if it was some average Joe who criticized him, nothing would come out of it, except maybe some social ostracism if the people around him were of the older generations. All in all, we're headed more towards secularism rather than the Middle Ages.
Hmm... Poland has a population of roughly 38 million while California has about 33 million inhabitants. Let's swap the populations, the Polish move to California and the Californians move to Poland. That way America gains all the good god fearing Polaks and the EU get's all the west coast hippies, liberals and the like. Good idea, no?
The Pope is a head of state? How the hell does that work?
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aerius wrote:The Pope is a head of state? How the hell does that work?
Ever heard of the Vatican?
Oh, btw, this clearly shows why Poland is in dire need of Russian invasion. Once tehy are ruled by the Motherland, all such bullshit worship of the "Pope" will end as un-Orthodox Chirishtian, and thus un-Slavic.
aerius wrote:The Pope is a head of state? How the hell does that work?
Ever heard of the Vatican?
Oh, btw, this clearly shows why Poland is in dire need of Russian invasion. Once tehy are ruled by the Motherland, all such bullshit worship of the "Pope" will end as un-Orthodox Chirishtian, and thus un-Slavic.
You already did that twice, and we've turned out to be too much trouble to hold on to. Rebellion is our national passtime.
50 years of communism are the principal reason why John Paul II is considered such a sacred cow here, BTW. Want to fuck us up even more?
One of Poland's best known newspaper editors has been fined $6,500 (£3,457) for ridiculing Pope John Paul II.
A court in Warsaw found Jerzy Urban guilty of insulting a head of state by writing a satirical article on the eve of the pontiff's 2002 visit to Poland.
Mr Urban, 71, said he was exercising the right to free expression.
Earlier, the press freedom group Reporters without Borders said a prosecution would set a "dangerous precedent" for an EU state.
In the early 1980s Mr Urban was spokesman for the last communist government of Poland, which cracked down on the Solidarity freedom movement.
He is now better known as the editor-in-chief of the weekly newspaper Nie - "No" in English.
Complaints
In his article, titled Walking Sadomasochism, Mr Urban referred to the Pope's frailty, describing him as "the Brezhnev of the Vatican" and an "impotent old man".
When published ahead of the Polish-born Pope's last visit to his homeland in August 2002 it provoked numerous complaints.
"The court has no doubts that intending to ridicule the church, Jerzy Urban ridiculed and derided the pope," the verdict said, according to the Associated Press.
Opponents of Mr Urban, who attended the trial, shouted "too little" when the fine was announced, the agency reports. Prosecutors had requested a 10-month suspended prison sentence.
The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says the Pope's standing among Poles is so high that almost any public criticism of the Pope is taboo.
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aerius wrote:The Pope is a head of state? How the hell does that work?
I was thinking the same thing. The fact that he is considered a head of state is almost as scary as the fact that they can put a person on trial for insulting a head of state.
aerius wrote:The Pope is a head of state? How the hell does that work?
I was thinking the same thing. The fact that he is considered a head of state
Vatican City is a nation. The Pope is the Sovereign of Vatican City, and therefore a Head of State. So what's the fucking problem, exactly?
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neoolong wrote:So it doesn't even have to be the head of state for Poland? That's just crazy. Makes you wonder if anybody in Poland criticized Bush.
The Pope is a national hero in Poland, in no small part because he stood up often and vocally to Soviet overlords like Brezhnev. So for some guy to call the Pope "The Brezhnev of the Vatican" is beyond a normal insult, it's a direct and very specific slap in the face of a beloved national figure and symbol (he's also the first Slavic Pope ever, and the first non-Italian Pope in over five hundred years).
"Carriers dispense fighters, which dispense assbeatings." - White Haven
| Hyperactive Gundam Pilot of MM | GALE | ASVS | Cleaners | Kibologist (beable) | DFB |
If only one rock and roll song echoes into tomorrow
There won't be anything to keep you from the distant morning glow.
I'm not a man. I just portrayed one for 15 years.
