Italy Bans the Burqua

[MKSheppard]

Linka

Italy bans Islamic burqas
Natasha Bita, Florence
August 01, 2005

ITALY has banned Islamic burqas under tough terrorism laws that provide two-year jail terms and E2000 ($3200) fines for anyone caught covering their face in a public place.

The counter-terrorism package, passed by Italy's parliament yesterday, doubles the existing penalty for wearing a burqa or chador -- traditional robes worn by Muslim women to cover their faces -- or full-faced helmets or balaclavas in public.

Police can extract DNA samples without a suspect's consent, detain them for 24 hours without a lawyer present, and deport foreigners suspected of terrorism under the new legislation. Soldiers involved in counter-terrorism have been given the same stop-and-search powers.

The changes, approved in a rare show of bipartisanship, came as Italian police arrested a fugitive hunted by British police over the bungled bombing attempt in London on July 21.

"In the course of the investigation, it has been possible to identify a dense network of individuals from the Eritrean and Ethiopian communities in Italy, believed to have helped the fugitive cover his tracks," Italian Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu told the Senate. "We have before us a grave threat that has to be confronted with all the means of prevention and contrast that we have." Italian media yesterday reported that the suspected terrorist, named by British police as Somali-born Hussain Osman, was Hamdi Adus Issac, 27, born in Ethiopia and allegedly granted British citizenship using false Somali documents.

Osman, who reportedly lived in Rome for several years and speaks fluent Italian, is fighting Britain's extradition request via a European arrest warrant. He slipped through Britain's security dragnet last week by catching a train from London's Waterloo station to Paris. He then moved to Milan and Rome, where Italian police arrested him during a raid on a relative's apartment. They had been tracking him by monitoring his mobile phone.

Italy's biggest newspapers reported that Osman had admitted to his Italian police interrogator that he had carried a bomb on to a train in his backpack.

Italy's opposition leader, former European Commission president Romano Prodi, yesterday pledged to withdraw Italy's 3000 troops from Iraq if his centre-left coalition wins elections due by June next year.

"We will withdraw them as a occupying force because our job will be to aid in the reconstruction of Iraq," he said.

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi -- who has said Italy will progressively withdraw its troops starting in September -- accused his rival of putting Italian soldiers' lives at risk by defining them as "occupying".

"He's breaking Western solidarity, justifying and enticing attacks against our troops," Mr Berlusconi said.

Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini accused Mr Prodi of exposing Italy to a terrorist attack.

[Enforcer Talen]

Interesting. I wonder if other religious symbols will become private, or is this an identification thing?

[Surlethe]

So, the United States isn't the only country rolling back freedoms in the name of security. Interesting.

I don't think Italy has any justification -- other than fear -- for demolishing part of Islamic women's freedom of expression.

[Chmee]

Yeah, you knew this was coming ... illegal to cover your face in public ... because we need the government cams to be able to track your movements 24x7 (well not yet, but working on it) and we can't have you screwing up the face-recognition software.

Note to anarchists: get yourselves made up like the mutants on Beneath the Planet of the Apes and when they ask you to take off your mask, pull of that rubber face and display the mutant horror beneath, shouting 'I reveal myself to thee!'*







*do not try this near Italian riot police armed with carbines

[weemadando]

Oooh, is that more "anti-big-brother" scare mongering I hear?

Can't be... Because everyone knows that its true that having surveillance cameras is just one step away FROM BANNING GUNS!!!!

As for the covering of the face, I can see why it may be a valid concern, but even with the not entirely small muslim community in Hobart, I'm yet to see a single burqua, instead its almost exclusively the hair-covering scarf if anything.

[18-Till-I-Die]

It's not that i think there is some sinister reason for banning burqas, it's just that i think there is no logical reason. If someone wants to wear a burqa, why not?

[Molyneux]

It's not that i think there is some sinister reason for banning burqas, it's just that i think there is no logical reason. If someone wants to wear a burqa, why not?

For me, it's that I think there are very good reasons NOT to ban burquas.

"Freedom of Expression" is a good thing.

[Uraniun235]

Wait, so motorcycle helmets are illegal? Wow.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

So, the United States isn't the only country rolling back freedoms in the name of security. Interesting.

I don't think Italy has any justification -- other than fear -- for demolishing part of Islamic women's freedom of expression.

Guess you never heard of culutral assimilation. This measure isn't so much about "fear" as it is about trying to get muslim immigrants to adopt Italian culture and (hopefully) leave Islamic fundamentalist extremism behind.

[Perinquus]

Wait, so motorcycle helmets are illegal? Wow.

Presumably not while you are actually riding the motorcycle. If you continue to wear it as you dismount and enter a building, that may be the sort of behavior they are criminalizing. I can't conceive that they would actually outlaw a proven piece of safety equipment for its intended use.

[Zero]

This just seems like it's designed specifically to piss people off.. why would you ban burquas?

[fgalkin]

This just seems like it's designed specifically to piss people off.. why would you ban burquas?

1) You cannot see the face of the person wearing it

2) It's an attempt to assimilate radical muslims into Italian culture.

Pick the one you like.

have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[18-Till-I-Die]

I dont see why they should have to 'assemilate' if they arent hurting anyone. There is nothing 'radical' about wearing a burqa it's just a covering over the face. Or hey, maybe they like it. That thy cant see their faces is not a valid reason to ban burqas, and in fact i doubt a logical reason can be found.

Put it this way. Lets say for whatever reason, i wnat to wear a bag over my head with holes cut out for the eyes. I can see, i'm in no danger, i'm not hurting anyone at all, and i am not bothering anyone. So why not? It will effect no one so why not wear it? There is no logical reason to wear it other than my personal choice, and there is no logical reason to make me take it off either.

[Dahak]

It has been illegal to hide your face in public places and demonstrations for a long time here. When people mask themselves, it is kinda impossible to determine someone who commited an illegal act (like throwing stones at police and the like)...

[Elfdart]

Very true. Anyone walking or driving around town while wearing a ski mask is asking to be stopped by the police.

[fgalkin]

I dont see why they should have to 'assemilate' if they arent hurting anyone. There is nothing 'radical' about wearing a burqa it's just a covering over the face. Or hey, maybe they like it. That thy cant see their faces is not a valid reason to ban burqas, and in fact i doubt a logical reason can be found.

Put it this way. Lets say for whatever reason, i wnat to wear a bag over my head with holes cut out for the eyes. I can see, i'm in no danger, i'm not hurting anyone at all, and i am not bothering anyone. So why not? It will effect no one so why not wear it? There is no logical reason to wear it other than my personal choice, and there is no logical reason to make me take it off either.

Um...I don't know about Italy or where you live, but here in NYC very few Muslim women actually wear Burkas. Most simply have a headscarf. The burka-wearing ones tend to be the Muslim equivanlents of WBC members.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[18-Till-I-Die]

Um...I don't know about Italy or where you live, but here in NYC very few Muslim women actually wear Burkas. Most simply have a headscarf. The burka-wearing ones tend to be the Muslim equivanlents of WBC members.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Oh i dont think it's common. Personally i agree, it's unessesary. And in fact most of the muslim girls ive met (at school mostly) wear just a headscarf, if anything. I was just saying, i dont see why those who do need to be criminalized (though perhaps thats too strong a term). You're probably right though, i dont know much more than what i've read/heard about it.

[Hendrake]

Interesting. I wonder if other religious symbols will become private, or is this an identification thing?

No, not at all. A portion of the italian government is in fact trying to push for 'a less secularized society', using old laws to force having a crucifix (sp?) in public schools and tribunals, heavily subsidizing catholic schools, organazing rallies against Spain's gay marriage laws and our own stem cell research (it is now a criminal offence to do embrionic stem cell research now, punishable IIRC to up to 15 years), etc.

We are returning to the middle ages here.

Sometimes I hate my country. Oftentimes, that is.

[Mr Bean]

I can't resist... Seeing as its now illegal to cover your face in Italy.


Won't someone please think of the Ninjas! Why is no one thinking of the Ninjas!??

[Coyote]

The obvious truth is, they want to ban this religious expression of non-assimilation without using the phrase "religious symbol". That way they avoid thre trouble the French have faced with their banning of "religious" items.

Is the burqua really an "expression of individuality"? It is an expression of religious indoctrination, and I'd say not a healthy one.

[Melchior]

Um...I don't know about Italy or where you live, but here in NYC very few Muslim women actually wear Burkas.

Almost nobody does, most wear a headscarf.
In Italy AFAIK it has always been illegal walk in the streets with your face covered.

[Hendrake]

Yes, it's an old law, but up until now it has been enforced very sporadically. So much, in fact, that my brother has been walking in the streets for ages with a full-face motocycle helmet and no law enforcement official has ever said anything. And we live pratically next door to a police barrack (well, Carabinieri, to be exact).

[Pablo Sanchez]

The obvious truth is, they want to ban this religious expression of non-assimilation without using the phrase "religious symbol". That way they avoid thre trouble the French have faced with their banning of "religious" items.

Well, it may also be that the Italian gov't is constitutionally prohibited from banning displays of religion. The French government, being officially secularized, was under no such handicap.

And, honestly, I don't think this transparent ruse is going to prevent Muslims in Italy from terrorism on behalf of the burqa. The thing that really gets me about the burqa isn't the typical "oh noes teh civil rights!" garbage, but the fact that Arabs in France were willing to strap bombs to their bodies and blow themselves up over the headscarf ban.

Going against my usual liberal tendencies, I support this effort by the government of Italy. Apart from tears on behalf of wounded civil rights, what should be understood is that Europe is facing a very tangible problem from their Muslim minorities populations. Muslims are by far the largest group of immigrants to European nations, and they just don't assimilate. They set up insular expatriate communities that feel no connection to the nation. Moreover, the Muslim immigrants have a much higher birthrate than the natives and could easily make up a majority in some nations by the turn of the century. This is a recipe for disaster. Imagine the majority of people in France identifying themselves as Arab Muslim first and French second.

[Chmee]

Very true. Anyone walking or driving around town while wearing a ski mask is asking to be stopped by the police.

Can't a clown drive to work without being hassled by The Man???

[Elfdart]

Of course not! Drive-by pie-throwing must be stopped!