Just finished MGS: Twin Snakes

[Vympel]

Having just finished TTS, some random thoughts:

1. Solidus is probably the product of earlier experiments with Big Boss' genes; i.e. there was probably no "Super Baby Method" employed as with Liquid and Solid. This explains both his "well-balanced" nature (as Revolver Ocelot aka Ivan Shalashaska notes at the end of the credits) as well as his older age.

2. What happened to Meryl? Did Solid give in to torture, and Meryl died, so Snake left Shadow Moses with Otacon? This would explain both his new mission in SOL with Otacon, his usage of stealth camoflage, and the lack of any mention of Meryl (not to mention Roy Campell) in SOL whatsoever. Or, maybe Solid and Meryl just broke up. Whatever works.

3. It seems clear that Revolver Ocelot was simply lying about wanting Russia's revival. This would explain his involvement with Solidus via the Patriots.

4. What about FoxDie? Ocelot talks about it in the end, and that regarding "the vector" (Solid Snake), it should be activated soon? So what went wrong? Why is Solid still alive?

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Some gameplay comments:

- the boss fights are in general much easier, on normal difficulty. What was a ridiculously hard fight against MG Rex on PS1 was a piece of piss on Gamecube.

- the cutscenes, viewed by themselves, were cool. However, taken together with the fights in game that precede/succeed them, they make no sense. Snake has *four* HtH attacks, for cripes sakes, no ability to block, and no ability to jump. This makes the actual game fights look quite lame.

- being able to shoot cameras/ gun cameras in first person view with your SOCOM pistol made things much easier

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Off-topic Extremely wishful thinking:

In the next MG that actually deals with Solid, I'd like to see Liquid resurrected for real, not in fricking Ocelot's arm. So fucking stupid ..... don't care how they do it, I just. want it. done. Liquid is the coolest villain of the series and having him trapped in the body of an old fogey Russian who thinks he's Lee Van Cleef is LAME. LAME ....

LAME.

[Smiling Bandit]

http://www.toastyfrog.com/features/thum ... atre.shtml

Sorry, there are no answers. Hideo Kojima simply went over the deep end and became a pretentious buffoon.

...

Look, MGS2 has him surviving in a FRICKIN' ARM for cryin out loud. So stupid.

[Vympel]

ROFLMAO

Best spoof of the MGS series- ever.

[The Kernel]

1. Solidus is probably the product of earlier experiments with Big Boss' genes; i.e. there was probably no "Super Baby Method" employed as with Liquid and Solid. This explains both his "well-balanced" nature (as Revolver Ocelot aka Ivan Shalashaska notes at the end of the credits) as well as his older age.

There has also been some suggestion that his age is due to abnormalities is his genetic structure. He is after all, far older looking then he should be. It's possible that Solidus was an earlier effort which had problems, so Liquid and Solid were created.

2. What happened to Meryl? Did Solid give in to torture, and Meryl died, so Snake left Shadow Moses with Otacon? This would explain both his new mission in SOL with Otacon, his usage of stealth camoflage, and the lack of any mention of Meryl (not to mention Roy Campell) in SOL whatsoever. Or, maybe Solid and Meryl just broke up. Whatever works.

Sorry, she lived. Not only is this the official ending according to the canon MGS novel written by Kojima, but Meryl is also the subject of one of the MGS2: Substance "Snake Tales". Also, if you call Ottocon while looking at Olga when you knock her out for the first time, he makes some subtle comments about Snake and Merle's relationship not working out.

3. It seems clear that Revolver Ocelot was simply lying about wanting Russia's revival. This would explain his involvement with Solidus via the Patriots.

Not really, since we have no clue what the Patriots promised Ocelot. They may have offered him the revival of Russia for his services to them, or at least the command over its fragments. Think about it, why would the Patriots trust someone like Ocelot unless they could hold out some sort of reward that no one else could offer?

4. What about FoxDie? Ocelot talks about it in the end, and that regarding "the vector" (Solid Snake), it should be activated soon? So what went wrong? Why is Solid still alive?

Snake was originally intended for FoxDie, but Naomi cut him out. Liquid/Ocelot says as much during the tanker mission in MGS2.

- the boss fights are in general much easier, on normal difficulty. What was a ridiculously hard fight against MG Rex on PS1 was a piece of piss on Gamecube.

Yeah, except that Psycho Mantis was MUCH harder.

[Ghost Rider]

There's a novel Kernel?

Cool...is it Japanese only or translated?

[The Prime Necromancer]

1. Solidus is probably the product of earlier experiments with Big Boss' genes; i.e. there was probably no "Super Baby Method" employed as with Liquid and Solid. This explains both his "well-balanced" nature (as Revolver Ocelot aka Ivan Shalashaska notes at the end of the credits) as well as his older age.

Solidus is a straight clone of Big Boss, and you're probably right about him being an earlier product (although one could also claim he aged rapidly a la Dolly the Sheep). Minor nitpick: "Ivan Shalashaska" is not Ocelot's name. Shalashaska was a nickname he received during his mercenary days, and "General Ivan" was just a derisive nickname given to him by Raven. We don't actually know Ocelot's real name.

2. What happened to Meryl? Did Solid give in to torture, and Meryl died, so Snake left Shadow Moses with Otacon? This would explain both his new mission in SOL with Otacon, his usage of stealth camoflage, and the lack of any mention of Meryl (not to mention Roy Campell) in SOL whatsoever. Or, maybe Solid and Meryl just broke up. Whatever works.

It is commonly excepted that Meryl did survive. First, the only ending in the Japanese version of the (original) game has Meryl surviving. The second ending was added for the American release. Secondly, getting the Meryl survives ending does not preclude Otacon being around, since Otacon also survives that ending. Thirdly, if we're using the "ending prize items" as proof, Snake also has the Unlimited Ammo Bandana in SOL ( remember right before they storm the room full of Tengus Snake points to his bandana and goes "Unlimited Ammo" ). Finally, just after you defeat Olga in SOL, by either talking to Otacon or taking a picture of sleeping Olga (or both, I can't remember) Snake makes a comment that "He's sick of tomboys." While far from definite, that seems like the kind of thing he would say if they broke up.

3. It seems clear that Revolver Ocelot was simply lying about wanting Russia's revival. This would explain his involvement with Solidus via the Patriots.

Everything Ocelot says is either a lie or a half-truth. I would have thought that the end of the Tanker portion of SOL would have proved that for you.

4. What about FoxDie? Ocelot talks about it in the end, and that regarding "the vector" (Solid Snake), it should be activated soon? So what went wrong? Why is Solid still alive?

According to "Naomi Hunter", she programmed FoxDie with a completely random activation time in regards to Snake. Which means it could activate at any time, or he might live his entire life and die without it ever activating.

This reminds me of another problem I have with FoxDie. The characters all seem to think that Liquid's death by FoxDie means that Snake will die too. But Liquid and Solid don't have the same genes, so why would one dying have anything to do with the other? Of course, that can be chalked up to the overall stupid way the game treats genetics.

In the next MG that actually deals with Solid, I'd like to see Liquid resurrected for real, not in fricking Ocelot's arm. So fucking stupid ..... don't care how they do it, I just. want it. done. Liquid is the coolest villain of the series and having him trapped in the body of an old fogey Russian who thinks he's Lee Van Cleef is LAME. LAME ....

LAME.

Seeing Liquid again would be cool, but don't diss Ocelot! He's a manipulative bastard, and I love him for it. Anyway, before they did, I'd like to hear a "plausible" exlanation for how the hell that worked in the first place. Not plausible-plausible; that's too much to ask. Just "scifi"-plausible, like "nanomachines in Liquid's blood copied all of his brainwaves/Em-grams/whatever and then reasserted themselves once the arm got attached" or some other bullshit. I also want to hear an explanation for Vamp.

[Smiling Bandit]

Everything Ocelot says is either a lie or a half-truth. I would have thought that the end of the Tanker portion of SOL would have proved that for you.

Its become painfully obvious that no one has any clue what's going on, probably not the Patriots and certainly not Ocelot. No, not even Hideo Kojima.

Anyway, before they did, I'd like to hear a "plausible" exlanation for how the hell that worked in the first place. Not plausible-plausible; that's too much to ask. Just "scifi"-plausible, like "nanomachines in Liquid's blood copied all of his brainwaves/Em-grams/whatever and then reasserted themselves once the arm got attached" or some other bullshit.

Its the "magic hand". That's probably everything you'll ever get.

I also want to hear an explanation for Vamp.

Vamp has magic powers. That's probably all you'll ever get. C'mon: Mantis had magic mind control. Vamp, well, can swim through water much too aerated to support him and blocks bullets with a knife and probably still ain't dead. And Fortune had magic powers, too, which simply popped into existence with no explanation.

Look, this is a game with mechs and a Big Boss Clone wandering around in a super-suit like some sort of wacked supervillain. This game long ago crossed the line into fantasy. Why do you think Kojima is going back to the roots in the next one, which probably chronicles Big Boss's adventures.

I did, however, like the way that Solid Snake, ostensibly the weak son of Big Boss, kept winning. Despite everything thown against him, he always wins. Maybe he justs wants it more.

And maybe everyone else is just too stupid to die the first time.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Its become painfully obvious that no one has any clue what's going on, probably not the Patriots and certainly not Ocelot. No, not even Hideo Kojima.

I'm not certain I disagree. Still, trying to make sense and speculating about a boarderline nonsensical plot is half the fun. It takes a certain amount of intelligence to put it all together so that it makes some kind of sense (sort of like argueing who would win if different sci-fi organizations fought each other ). It's the reason everybody has fun speculating about things like X-Files and Resident Evil.

Plus it gives you a good laugh when people pull things entirely out of their asses like, "Raiden's actually Meryl with a dye job and hair extentions! Oh, and testicles!"

Its the "magic hand". That's probably everything you'll ever get.

Vamp has magic powers. That's probably all you'll ever get. C'mon: Mantis had magic mind control. Vamp, well, can swim through water much too aerated to support him and blocks bullets with a knife and probably still ain't dead. And Fortune had magic powers, too, which simply popped into existence with no explanation.

Look, this is a game with mechs and a Big Boss Clone wandering around in a super-suit like some sort of wacked supervillain. This game long ago crossed the line into fantasy. Why do you think Kojima is going back to the roots in the next one, which probably chronicles Big Boss's adventures.

Well, someone sounds bitter.

Anyway, psychic powers and mechs have a long history in science fiction, and one can usually have them included without automatically sacrificing all plausibility (no matter how unlikely they may be). However, getting shot in the head and surviving or having an arm take over someone's body is firmly in the "magic fairy dust must have done it" category, unless there's a damn good explanation. As for Fortune, she was a latent psychic. There ya go.

On the other hand, Raven's shenanigans in the original are basically magic. I guess the reason it's easier to accept is because it's far less blatant and more open to other explanations (unlike surviving getting shot in the head or running on water).

Oh, and may I add that Vamp definitely is not dead. You can see him in the background of the final cutscene when Raiden pulls out his dogtags. Which is why I'm caustiously optimistic that we might actually get an explanation eventually.

[Vympel]

Seeing Liquid again would be cool, but don't diss Ocelot! He's a manipulative bastard, and I love him for it. Anyway, before they did, I'd like to hear a "plausible" exlanation for how the hell that worked in the first place. Not plausible-plausible; that's too much to ask. Just "scifi"-plausible, like "nanomachines in Liquid's blood copied all of his brainwaves/Em-grams/whatever and then reasserted themselves once the arm got attached" or some other bullshit. I also want to hear an explanation for Vamp.

Ocelot by himself is cool. What is not is Ocelot/Liquid in the same body- Liquid is the ultimate son of Big Boss, it's just not appropriate. Also, Ocelot picks up the forearm Gray Fox took from him at Shadow Moses almost the moment after it's cut- why the hell would he want a transplant from Liquid? It was just unecessary. If he really wanted Liquid back, Kojima should just have resurrected him. We've seen it before, after all (Gray Fox).

Anyone wanna see a game called Metal Gear Liquid (prequel, be evil, would be cool)?

[Stark]

I think MG will soon go the way on Zelda, and everyone will just have to give up.

MG:L would be damn fun, except I'm not sure if there's much scope for Liquid to actually do much. I'd also like to see original MG-style infiltration missions, just for fun; apparently Solid did that sort of thing all the time, and back then you could ignore all the silly genetics/nanomachines/mental powers rubbish. Even ditch the mechs; make it pre-MG and there aren't any. Just sneaky kill-y kewlness. But not horribly linear like Splinter Cell.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Ocelot by himself is cool. What is not is Ocelot/Liquid in the same body- Liquid is the ultimate son of Big Boss, it's just not appropriate. Also, Ocelot picks up the forearm Gray Fox took from him at Shadow Moses almost the moment after it's cut- why the hell would he want a transplant from Liquid? It was just unecessary. If he really wanted Liquid back, Kojima should just have resurrected him. We've seen it before, after all (Gray Fox).

You won't get any arguement out of me for that one. As for why Ocelot got the arm in the first place, when all else fails, just blame...

THE PATRIOTS!

Anyone wanna see a game called Metal Gear Liquid (prequel, be evil, would be cool)?

Done well, that could be quite cool. Not sure what it would be about, though.

I think MG will soon go the way on Zelda, and everyone will just have to give up.

Apparently you haven't been to many Zelda sites. There are still people trying to make sense out of it.

Anyway, I think I blamed Raven's powers on magic a bit too quickly. I don't remember him doing anything more than having some kind of link with ravens, and momentarily paralyzing Snake. That could be done with psychic powers too.

[The Kernel]

There's a novel Kernel?

Cool...is it Japanese only or translated?

I don't know much about it actually. All I know is that it was written by Kojima (or ghostwritten under his guidance) and it declared Meryl alive as being the official outcome of Shadow Moses. The only reason I'm aware of it at all is because it is mentioned in the GameFAQ's Plot Summary for the Metal Gear series.

Since it is not availible through Amazon, I'm assuming this was a Japanese only affair.

[salm]

i just finished Sons of Liberty. great game. when is the release date for Snake Eater?

[Smiling Bandit]

My big problem with MGS2, much more than the story, was the fact I just didn't get to ever actually play it.

"Raiden's actually Meryl with a dye job and hair extentions! Oh, and testicles!"

Testicles? Where?

Well, OK, he did take on a friggin army and multiple Metal Gears, so maybe I can forgive him something. He did, after all, manage to go through the plot and arguably embarrassed himself less than anyone save Snake.

Anyway, psychic powers and mechs have a long history in science fiction, and one can usually have them included without automatically sacrificing all plausibility (no matter how unlikely they may be).

Still magic. What you call it is, well, just the gloss.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Hey, I beat it 46 minutes before you do. Odd. But I was on easy and after I beat it I decided I probably should have done normal(I wanted to make sure I beated it before it was do back and since it was a new release it was do back in 5 instead of 7 days)

God damn, Gray Fox is a bad ass. I want a prequel game with what he was doing before he went to Moese Island.

[2000AD]

My big problem with MGS2, much more than the story, was the fact I just didn't get to ever actually play it.

"Raiden's actually Meryl with a dye job and hair extentions! Oh, and testicles!"

Testicles? Where?

Same place as most guys as shown when the president groped him to make sure he was a man.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Testicles? Where?

Well, OK, he did take on a friggin army and multiple Metal Gears, so maybe I can forgive him something. He did, after all, manage to go through the plot and arguably embarrassed himself less than anyone save Snake.

Actually, I was referring to the part when the President gropes him.

Still magic. What you call it is, well, just the gloss.

*shrugs*

If you say so.

[Solid Snake]

After you beat Olga in MGS2, if you look down at her and call Otacon, they make a reference to Meryl.

"Besides, I've had enough of tomboys."

[Vympel]

Personally, I don't understand the Raiden hate. Snake may be cool, but he's also as dumb as a fucking brick. Playing TTS reminds how many times I was throwing up my arms at his abject stupidity and complete cluelessness.

After EVERY exposition, the best Snake can do is pull a Neo and say "what" or simply repeat a phrase.

Then there's the confirmation that Snake is as dumb as Neo:

Vulcan Raven: the man you saw die was not who you thought he was

Snake: *drooooooolllllllllllllll*- goes to activate Metal Gear Rex

etc etc.

At least Raiden didn't turn ON Metal Gear.

[The Kernel]

Personally, I don't understand the Raiden hate. Snake may be cool, but he's also as dumb as a fucking brick. Playing TTS reminds how many times I was throwing up my arms at his abject stupidity and complete cluelessness.

Raiden took the time to have conversations with his girlfriend about their relationship during a combat situation. Not only does this put his masculinity into question, but it also paints him as a Grade A dumbass.

[Vympel]

Raiden took the time to have conversations with his girlfriend about their relationship during a combat situation. Not only does this put his masculinity into question, but it also paints him as a Grade A dumbass.

Snake's idiotic coversations with Meryl in the ladies bathroom makes it even- Snake still comes out a bigger dumbass.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Just to back you up Vympel, I had no problem with Raiden. Like you said, Snake does his share of hitting on Mei Ling and Meryl and having stupid conversations with Otacon about how "love can bloom on the battlefield."

Frankly, I have a stinking suspicion that the only reason some people hate Raiden is they're so insecure about their own masculinity that they just *have* to play as the gravely-voiced, grizzled veteran.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Rewatch the scene today, wanted to try out the bandana, Ocelot doesn't grab his hand, just his revolver.

And yeah, I hadn't read ahead or anything but I figured out when Otacon(damn I wanted to shoot him) said it could turn it on that they didn't get the DARPA Cheif's code, and that Snake had been allowed to come here to activate Rex, (although putting him in a life or death battle with Vulcan and Wolf before he activated it didn't make much sense)

Oh, and Vulcan has to have an amazingly small penis.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Snake never really does any of those in a dangerous area, the floor had been cleared when he had the conversation with Meryl in the bathroom, he was pretty far away when he briefly flirted with Mei Ling, and his convo about love with Otacon there wasn't much danger, someone like wolf isn't going to let anyone be nearby to interfer with her hunt.