Next D&D sourcebook announced

[Rogue 9]

The Complete Adventurer. Title sounds a little lame, but it's likely the closest they could come to an appropriate title for the book on skill-based classes without specifying classes while still staying within the "Complete X" theme. (I'd rather have seen Complete Scoundrel, though. )

[CrimsonRaine]

Ah, cool. It could be used for almost any campaign, since you need adventurers and well, they're called adventures. But God. So expensive for a 100-page book.

Raine

[Stravo]

Ah, cool. It could be used for almost any campaign, since you need adventurers and well, they're called adventures. But God. So expensive for a 100-page book.

Raine

The prices for RPG books are just getting way out of hand, the Star Wars d20 books are absurdly priced in my opinion and one of teh main driving reasons that got me out of RPGs. I refuse to fork over $30 for a book that is only part of a game.

GURPS sourcebooks on the other hand are cool for reading on a particular topic and to entertain you for about 15-17 dollars you have a 120 page book on almost any topic. Ancient Greece, Imperial Rome, etc. They're the only RPG books I still consider buying.

[Stormbringer]

Ah, cool. It could be used for almost any campaign, since you need adventurers and well, they're called adventures. But God. So expensive for a 100-page book.

Raine

Egh, for a hard-cover roleplaying book it's pretty reasonable. A lot more work goes into them even compared to a novel and plus some of it is just plain being a hard cover book's cost.

[Rogue 9]

You've got something of a point, but there's a reason for that. Take a look.

Edit: That was in response to Stravo.

[Jade Falcon]

A good example is that I play D20 Modern, and Holistic Designs 'Modern' era sourcebooks are a good price.

They've done Afghanistan, Somalia, and Columbia as well as the FBI sourcebook and they cost about £13. They're well researched and worth a read. Hardback RPG books are a little expensive, but something like the Star Wars RPG book has a lot of colour which puts the price up.

[Rogue 9]

You can also buy them cheap from Amazon. I don't because I want to support the gaming store in my college town, but a lot of people do.

[General Zod]

another handy alternative, if you don't mind pdf format, is getting them from DriveThruRPG, which offers all kinds of books for sale, both old, rare and new as downloadable pdf formats. (yes, it's legal). Typically they're much cheaper than the actual hardbacks as well.

[Jade Falcon]

RPG Objects who manufacture the D20 post apocalyptic game Darwins World have excellent support in PDF format. You can buy many of their books in that format and even download free adventures and supplementary materials.

Really, I suppose the games aren't too expensive. RPG's stayed at a pretty static price level for quite a while, and maybe we got used to that.

[Stormbringer]

Really, I suppose the games aren't too expensive. RPG's stayed at a pretty static price level for quite a while, and maybe we got used to that.

Yeah, that and people don't seem to appreciate the kind of man-hours that go into making a good RPG sourcebook.

Not to mention the typical RPG book is done in a manner that's relatively costly compared to a most books; hardcover, semi-gloss print, etc.

[Jade Falcon]

Really, I suppose the games aren't too expensive. RPG's stayed at a pretty static price level for quite a while, and maybe we got used to that.

Yeah, that and people don't seem to appreciate the kind of man-hours that go into making a good RPG sourcebook.

Not to mention the typical RPG book is done in a manner that's relatively costly compared to a most books; hardcover, semi-gloss print, etc.

A good example is my local games shop. Now I'm a Battletech fan, and any of the old FASA Battletech material goes for a good price. Campaign modules like The Northwind Highlanders average at £5, Tech Readouts about £10-£12, and a Field Manual at about £10. However, the newer print Fanpro material is more expensive. The Fedcom Civil War book is £18 for a softcover, but part of that is again the fact that Battletech books stayed static for a while, and mos of what is available in the FASA stuff is old material that had been reprinted many times over.

Another thing to consider is that any gaming system that is licensced like B5, Judge Dredd, Buffy, Angel, Star Trek, SG-1, Farscape etc will also have a licensing fee.

[Stravo]

Not to mention the typical RPG book is done in a manner that's relatively costly compared to a most books; hardcover, semi-gloss print, etc.

Yeah but do we NEED that in an RPG book? I mean all we should really care about are the rules and the core rule books of the Star Wars games are ridiculously expensive because of all the glossy pages and color. It forces a potential GM to pay extra when all he wants are the rules on how to run a game. On the other hand if you make the source books glossy with color it gives the buyer a choice. Does he really need to fork over this extra cash for the rebellion source book? He can't ask the same question of the core rule book.

[Jade Falcon]

Not to mention the typical RPG book is done in a manner that's relatively costly compared to a most books; hardcover, semi-gloss print, etc.

Yeah but do we NEED that in an RPG book? I mean all we should really care about are the rules and the core rule books of the Star Wars games are ridiculously expensive because of all the glossy pages and color. It forces a potential GM to pay extra when all he wants are the rules on how to run a game. On the other hand if you make the source books glossy with color it gives the buyer a choice. Does he really need to fork over this extra cash for the rebellion source book? He can't ask the same question of the core rule book.

There already is a choice to a certain extent.

Have you seen the Wizards of the Coast D20 Modern book? In the UK its about £25-£28 for a glossy hardback.

However, Mongoose who also do the B5 RPG, have printed a 'pocket' sized handbook which is similiar in terms of rules. It's a softcover, no glossy colour or illustrations and its about £15.

[Rogue 9]

Is the Star Wars d20 game covered under the Open Gaming License? If so, there's a System Reference Document (SRD) squirreled away in WotC's website somewhere. An SRD is just the bare-bones rules of the system, with no illustrations or anything like that. It is online to make it available to third party d20 manufacturers, as per the OGL. They don't make a big deal of this to consumers because they want us to buy the books, but even though the SRD is intended for the third party manufacturers who are in on the license, it is also freely and legally available for anyone who knows where to look. For example, the D&D 3.0, D&D 3.5, and d20 Anime SRDs are archived here, with more to come as the Open Gaming Foundation gets the funding to put it on their site. (I tend to go through them because they have the games I play already, that is, D&D, and it is easier to get at the SRDs there because WotC doesn't link to their copies on their front page.)

[Jade Falcon]

That's how Mongoose did its mini Modern guide, through the OGL system.

[Rogue 9]

That's how Mongoose did its mini Modern guide, through the OGL system.

Exactly. I say if you can't even buy the third party stuff made with the SRD, go straight to the SRD. You get to game, albeit without the benefit of a nice book or even a PDF, and those of us who aren't cheap buy the books and don't have to carry a laptop and scroll through Word documents at every game.

[Jade Falcon]

That's how Mongoose did its mini Modern guide, through the OGL system.

Exactly. I say if you can't even buy the third party stuff made with the SRD, go straight to the SRD. You get to game, albeit without the benefit of a nice book or even a PDF, and those of us who aren't cheap buy the books and don't have to carry a laptop and scroll through Word documents at every game.

Well one of my local gaming shops is pretty good, sometimes buying a hardback rulebook can be quite a hefty purchase depending on what other commitments you have, and I've sometimes put a deposit on it, and paid the balance later.

Have you seen some of the D20 Modern products.

Blood & Guts Modern Militaries is pretty good, and is about £12 ($18 approx)
Military Vehicles by Guardian of Order
Afghanistan
Somalia
Ultramodern Firearms
Weapons Locker

I have all those ones and they are pretty good.

[Vendetta]

Yeah but do we NEED that in an RPG book?

Yes, it means they can withstand protracted and heavy thumbing when you need to look things up in designing adventures, characters, encounters, and when called upon to make a rules call.

Nice thick well built rulebooks are a definite plus.

[Stormbringer]

Not to mention the typical RPG book is done in a manner that's relatively costly compared to a most books; hardcover, semi-gloss print, etc.

Yeah but do we NEED that in an RPG book? I mean all we should really care about are the rules and the core rule books of the Star Wars games are ridiculously expensive because of all the glossy pages and color. It forces a potential GM to pay extra when all he wants are the rules on how to run a game. On the other hand if you make the source books glossy with color it gives the buyer a choice. Does he really need to fork over this extra cash for the rebellion source book? He can't ask the same question of the core rule book.

Yes

Given that RPG books aren't of the sort that are meant to be read just once or twice, a fair amount that is indeed necessary. They're designed to be fairly durable and a lot of that stuff is meant for that very reason. You need a good binding and good paper (gloss with a fairly heavy weight) in order for it to stay nice for a long time. These are meant as reference books and are printed to a similar standard.

The artwork and some of those embelishments are probably unnecessary from a strictly functional perspective. But they rightly reckon that stuff like that is more inspiring than a book with out illustration and that's in strictly black and white. It's meant to catch a readers interest and hence keep them playing and buying.

Of course the biggest costs are still the fairly hefty man-hours that go into it. And that's not going to change much with out sacrificing the quality of the game.

[Keevan_Colton]

Rogue, you do realize all that article says is basically, "the books have to be this expensive because we're working from a shitty distribution model" this is the same reason CD's are a rip-off.

[Rogue 9]

Rogue, you do realize all that article says is basically, "the books have to be this expensive because we're working from a shitty distribution model" this is the same reason CD's are a rip-off.

*Shrug* Hey, you want to go to his board and tell him that, be my guest.

[Jade Falcon]

Course, you want an example of poor production quality, look at the Nightfall Games SLA Industries RPG that appeared some years ago. An original Scottish designed RPG it was pretty well done, however, it was full of grammer and spelling errors as well as ommisions, and the worst of the lot was that the binding was so poor quality that the book started to come apart in no time.

Did this reduce the price, no it was about £18. At the time it came out, in the late 80's this was quite hefty for a softcover RPG rule book, albeit a large one.

[The Dark]

Just about the only RPG company I still buy from is Dream Pod 9. Their prices are a bit high, due to Canadian printing prices (as I have come to understand from authors' gripes). I actually prefer softcover, as I've found that seems to be ~$15 cheaper for a thick book (200 or so pages), and I'm careful enough with my books that I generally don't shred covers. Two Palladium books are the only exception to that, and they are old books I got used. Hardcover and semi-glossy paper is a waste of resources to a buyer like me, and I don't deal with companies that waste my money on frivolous expenditures like that.