The Glorious Battle of the Bridge!

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-25 10:40am

wautd wrote:
Lotsa traderights don't hurt either

Yeah absolutely right, forgot about that- I have trade rights with Parthia, Armenia, Scythia, Briton, Germania & Gaul.

See, but I'm a moron. I thought Auxilia were a replacement for town watch

LOL- there's a reason why Town Watch doesn't dissappear from the list when the Marian Reforms come mate- they're practically the same level of discipline as legionaries

Why are you obsessed with disbanding perfectly good units before you've trained a replacement army, Vympel? As the Brutii, I kept making a new army every 10 years or so in my Italian cities and I'd ship it off to Greece or Anatolia to conquer stuff. Once I got the Marian reforms, I finished a half-built army up with cohorts and send that off, too. The other armies performed fine and I would supplement them with new units as older ones died off. Soon, those armies were nearly converted and I didn't suffer any inactivity due to retraining my entire military.

It's just not ... right. It doesn't feel ... right. Units traipsing around foreign lands that can never be replenished, being replaced with new units from usually far away (sometimes a boat trip) piece-meal ... nup. Not for me. I'm an obsessive perfectionist. If I'm going to war, it's with the latest stuff, no obsolete units, that's for the computer- man did my Legionary/Praetorian/Urban Cohorts tear through them. I *did* have 1 out of my 9 armies still equipped with pre-Marian units that I used to take Sicily (besides Syracuse, which was already mine), but it's retraining now too.

Besides, when the Marian reforms come, any cities you're campaigning near should have the capability to build Auxilia, Archer Auxilia, Light Auxilia and Roman Cavalry at least, and they're all much more capable than their pre-Marian equivalents (or cheaper, in the case of Auxilia vs Triarii), so I disband those units first.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 10:49am

Vympel wrote:
See, but I'm a moron. I thought Auxilia were a replacement for town watch
LOL- there's a reason why Town Watch doesn't dissappear from the list when the Marian Reforms come mate- they're practically the same level of discipline as legionaries

Right, my problem was: The graphic for triarii look like spearmen. The graphic for auxilia=town watch in chainmail. So Chardok thinks "How stupid! I'm not sending THOSE guys out againt the egyptians. I'll make up for my lack of spearmen with.....HEAVY ONAGERS! That'll give those chariots something to think about."

Which explains why before every single battle my generals whine about our lack of spearmen, and how the necrophiliac monsters will make life hectic for us and Blah blah blah.

In other news, Gaius "BY TOMORROW, OUR SWORD-ARMS WILL ACHE FROM OVERUSE" Scipio, the worst General in Roman history has, unfortunately, passed from this life. Yet we should not mourn his loss, we should celebrate his life. For he died as he would have wanted, as he lived; Running for his life from pursuing egyptians. He was actually trampled upon by one of his own fleeing cavalry units.

Fortunately a private from Iv century legionaires raised the Scipii flag and took command, leading the remaining 1.1k troops to victory over the 200 egyptian peasants defending Cyrene. Truly a glorious day.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-25 10:57am

In other news, Gaius "BY TOMORROW, OUR SWORD-ARMS WILL ACHE FROM OVERUSE" Scipio, the worst General in Roman history has, unfortunately, passed from this life. Yet we should not mourn his loss, we should celebrate his life. For he died as he would have wanted, as he lived; Running for his life from pursuing egyptians. He was actually trampled upon by one of his own fleeing cavalry units.

Fortunately a private from Iv century legionaires raised the Scipii flag and took command, leading the remaining 1.1k troops to victory over the 200 egyptian peasants defending Cyrene. Truly a glorious day.

That sounds really ......... suspicious. Must've been a very bad omen prior to that battle, to have your General's Bodyguard cut-off from your army of ... 1,100 men ... by ... 200 ... peasants. Yes ... a bad omen, that's what it was.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-25 11:05am

I've lost a general to archers in hand to hand combat, but never to peasants. But, I was playing the Seleucids, and their early genearal's bodyguards suck.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-10-25 11:09am

Nah, a bad omen is when an enemy general explodes in an enormous shower of dust, causing your troops to flee in terror. (What had actually happened is that I was fast-forwarding through a melee including the enemy leader, who buzzed around the crowd chopping bits of people for a few moments, before being blown out of his saddle by a heavy onager I had no idea the enemy was bringing to bear. By the time i'd stopped laughing and had thought to slow the game down, two more onager balls had landed and the poor Auxilia had decided to exercise the better part of discretion.)

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-25 11:18am

Vympel wrote:That sounds really ......... suspicious. Must've been a very bad omen prior to that battle, to have your General's Bodyguard cut-off from your army of ... 1,100 men ... by ... 200 ... peasants. Yes ... a bad omen, that's what it was.

To his credit, it was a brave and valiant charge by his unit. stormed the walls alone, he did. But for some strange reason, the rest of his troops didn't follow suit...It was...odd to say the least...almost as if his death was planned...but...no, it cannot be...

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2004-10-25 11:27pm

Well, I forgot to get a screenshot. But I beat the demo at the hard level. They ended up with more troops than I did but I'll be damned I did it!

Post by **Beowulf** » 2004-10-26 12:01am

Captain_Cyran wrote:Well, I forgot to get a screenshot. But I beat the demo at the hard level. They ended up with more troops than I did but I'll be damned I did it!

That's not too difficult. Beat it on very hard.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2004-10-26 12:03am

Beowulf wrote:
Captain_Cyran wrote:Well, I forgot to get a screenshot. But I beat the demo at the hard level. They ended up with more troops than I did but I'll be damned I did it!
That's not too difficult. Beat it on very hard.

Kiss my ass. It's an achievement for me damnit.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2004-10-26 12:11am

We finally got R:TW installed on the ship's Gaming LAN.

All I need now is helmet with an upside foxtail brush and we're straight.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-10-26 12:41am

so how much trouble do you get in for sinking an officer's fleet and burning his cities?

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-10-26 03:05am

I got this dangerously mad family member that I couldnt dare to let him in charge of a city nor an army.

BUT he's fertile. And I mean fertile. I placed him in a city and just let him breed offspring

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-10-26 06:12am

yes but when Caligula starts going after sisters.....

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2004-10-26 07:18pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:so how much trouble do you get in for sinking an officer's fleet and burning his cities?

The only officer who plays games with us on the LAN is Chaps, and he don't hold back.

He plays a mean USSR in Hearts of Iron, incidently.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-27 10:45am

Started playing as the Seleucid Greeks; as advised by fgalkin, the Egyptians declared war on me in short order, blockading the Port of my capital, Antioch (which is wrong, actually, the capital of the Seleucid Empire was Seleucia, on the Tigris).

I quickly retaliated with my brilliant faction heir, the 17-year old Cleitos, and he has taken both Sidon and Jeruslaem from the Egytpians. He has eight-command stars at the age of 18-years.

As he was laying siege to Jerusalem, my faction leader, the 63 year old (he was 60 when the game started) Antiochus, died. So now I have an 18-year old faction leader who's a fucking brilliant commander.

This early into the game (it's only 266 BC), all Cleitos has at his disposal is Militia Hoplites, Levy Pikemen, Militia Cavalry, and Peltasts. Luckily, the Egyptians don't have anything too special either. Moving phalanx units around is a lot different from Legionaries, to be sure, but I've gotten used to it very quickly.

I've also taken Arabia (a rebel area).

In short- on to the Nile!

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-27 10:47am

I must question the historicity of "Silver Shield Legionaires" though. The Seleucid Empire stopped existing before 141 BC, before the Marian Reforms, yet all of a sudden they have Legionary Cohort equivalents, complete with the more advanced form of armor (Lorica sagmata or whatever it is)? I guess it's a hypothetical.

SecondStorm · Post by **SecondStorm** » 2004-10-27 10:57am

Chardok wrote:In other news, Gaius "BY TOMORROW, OUR SWORD-ARMS WILL ACHE FROM OVERUSE" Scipio, the worst General in Roman history has, unfortunately, passed from this life. Yet we should not mourn his loss, we should celebrate his life. For he died as he would have wanted, as he lived; Running for his life from pursuing egyptians. He was actually trampled upon by one of his own fleeing cavalry units.

Fuck you, you made me spill my drink. And whiskey burns when it comes through the nose.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-10-27 11:38am

Vympel wrote:This early into the game (it's only 266 BC), all Cleitos has at his disposal is Militia Hoplites, Levy Pikemen, Militia Cavalry, and Peltasts. Luckily, the Egyptians don't have anything too special either. Moving phalanx units around is a lot different from Legionaries, to be sure, but I've gotten used to it very quickly.

I thought it was a lot more fun working with hoplites and phalangites. With legionnary units it was sort of like, "Advance to throw pila and charge. Smash enemy from front with principes while triarii guard flanks, envelop with hastati, yawn, rinse, repeat." The super-heavy spear infantry requires you to deploy them carefully and use your cavalry with a high degree of precision--and God help you if you fuck up, because if you start to lose it is very hard to recover and you will take horrific losses.

Vympel wrote:I must question the historicity of "Silver Shield Legionaires" though. The Seleucid Empire stopped existing before 141 BC, before the Marian Reforms, yet all of a sudden they have Legionary Cohort equivalents, complete with the more advanced form of armor (Lorica sagmata or whatever it is)? I guess it's a hypothetical.

You're fighting the Phaoronic Egyptians with their total bullshit chariots and complaining about the Seleucid legionnaires being historically inaccurate?

I just think the Total War folks were applying a lesson learned from the Medieval game. In the Medieval grand campaign there were three periods, each with a different assortment of units--early, high, and late middle ages. The Byzantine Empire started out with a good unit selection but as the periods advance the selection doesn't advance as with the other nations, and in fact becomes a good deal weaker as they lose the ability to produce some of their key early units. This makes sense historically, as the Byzantines lost the cavalry-producing Anatolian plain which crippled their armed forces. But if the game went ahistorically they were fucking the Byzantine player over. There is no reason that a powerful and vital Eastern Empire that reclaimed the whole Near East and change would have a deteriorating military!

I think that's what they're trying to represent with the high-level units available to non-Roman factions. If the Seleucids not only survive, but triumph at a massive level, why shouldn't they have the opportunity to advance along with the Romans? IIRC they're the only playable Successor State, so it's probably a nod to their strong military tradition.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-27 09:17pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
I thought it was a lot more fun working with hoplites and phalangites. With legionnary units it was sort of like, "Advance to throw pila and charge. Smash enemy from front with principes while triarii guard flanks, envelop with hastati, yawn, rinse, repeat." The super-heavy spear infantry requires you to deploy them carefully and use your cavalry with a high degree of precision--and God help you if you fuck up, because if you start to lose it is very hard to recover and you will take horrific losses.

Good point. You really need to watch your flanks- I can't wait to get Companion Cavalry. And Kataphraktoi. Mmmmmmmmmm ....

You're fighting the Phaoronic Egyptians with their total bullshit chariots and complaining about the Seleucid legionnaires being historically inaccurate?

I just think the Total War folks were applying a lesson learned from the Medieval game. In the Medieval grand campaign there were three periods, each with a different assortment of units--early, high, and late middle ages. The Byzantine Empire started out with a good unit selection but as the periods advance the selection doesn't advance as with the other nations, and in fact becomes a good deal weaker as they lose the ability to produce some of their key early units. This makes sense historically, as the Byzantines lost the cavalry-producing Anatolian plain which crippled their armed forces. But if the game went ahistorically they were fucking the Byzantine player over. There is no reason that a powerful and vital Eastern Empire that reclaimed the whole Near East and change would have a deteriorating military!

Another good point. The Seleucids have scythed chariots too

I think that's what they're trying to represent with the high-level units available to non-Roman factions. If the Seleucids not only survive, but triumph at a massive level, why shouldn't they have the opportunity to advance along with the Romans? IIRC they're the only playable Successor State, so it's probably a nod to their strong military tradition.

*slaps Pablo with the history stick*

Egypt = Successor State

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-27 09:29pm

Not the Egypt of Rome: Total War.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-10-30 01:24pm

fgalkin wrote:Not the Egypt of Rome: Total War.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Considering how quickly I kicked their arses, you're probably right. The Seleucids rock.

- My faction leader, Cleitos, crushed the Egyptians and had taken their last city (Alexandria) by the age of 27. He's "the Mighty" now. While he was rampaging through Egypt's empire, the following happened:

- Parthia attacked me at Seleucia, I massacred them, but not without difficulty (damn Horse Archers).

- Armenia attacked me at Hatra, and captured it from me- I returned in a year with two general-led armies to take it back, and the fools rode out and attacked one of the armies, hoping to defeat them piecemeal. By some miracle, I kicked their arse.

- Pontus attacked me at Tarsus, I kicked their arse.

- A Parthian army led by a capable general arrived at Seleucia again, I killed the lot of them. Somehow, they had Cataphracts? How could they possibly have the facilities to build Cataphracts that early in the game?

- The Greek Cities attacked me at Sardis- I kicked their arse, then promptly took Pergamum from them, eliminating their position in Asia Minor entirely, and effectively securing the West from further incursion. The Greek Cities sued for peace.

- The general who blunted the attack from Pontus went over to the offensive. I just eliminated Pontus a few minutes ago (Sinope being their last city).

Now I need to kill Armenia and Parthia. Both are Horse Archer/ Cataphract capable, and I can't leave those fuckers at my rear when I go off to take Greece back- not to mention the bastards attacked me without provocaiton.

Actually, when I think about it, Egypt, Pontus, the Greek Cities, Armenia and Parthia- they *all* attacked me without provocation. And I pwned them all (well, have yet to conquer Armenia/Parthia yet).

I share a border with Numidia right next to Alexandria/Memphis/Thebes- strange, the Numidians must've done well in this game. Hopefully they leave me the fuck alone, I have little interest in North Africa ... yet.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2004-10-30 01:51pm

So is it possible for me to take over one of the briton families, and unite them with becoming Arthur/conclabain centuries ahead of scedual, purhaps forming a merfchantile base...

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-10-30 01:54pm

Egyptian generals are strangely willing to desert their armies....they usually cost me 8k per bribe, but I get a new general and one less battle to fight...and the systematic disassembly of the egyptian empire continues.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2004-10-30 03:32pm

Vympel wrote:*snip*

Well, after I've clobbered Egypt, took Pergamum and Helicarnasus, and conquered Susa, I've made peace with the Parthians. The Numidians declared war on me, so I've taken their bordering province and the greek coastal city. Then there was peace for 10 years or so. Unfortunately, the Scipii invaded me, so now I'm at war with the Roman houses. They haven't done anything after I've defeated the army, and now I'm building up a kickass army of cataphracts and Silver Shiled Pikemen to take over the remainder of Africa.

At the same time, another army is heading into Parthia, and is about to clobber them. Pontus are still my allies, and they were too busy fighting the Armenians to attack me. Now, they may try something stupid, but I hope I take out Parthia first. They're next on the list after Parthia anyway.

Meanwhile my faction leader has landed in Greece an conquered Sparta. However, he has found himself unable to move further, as he was too far from resupply. So, he sits tight, enjoying the view as Greek and Brutii armies are figthing it out right in front of him.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin