Natural Selection 3.0 done finally

[InnocentBystander]

After what seems like an endless beta, natural selection is finally finished! It's gone through some MAJOR changes since version one, I got to admit, but it's all be very... VERY fun

http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/

I know where I'll be tomorrow

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Is this Source? Or still original?

[Hamel]

Still HL engine. Those guys have said they're going to be doing incremental updates, and at a faster pace.

I think the only reason why they havn't started on a Source port is because Valve has forgotten what a real SDK is.

[Slartibartfast]

So it is good? I heard 2.0 was crapola. Not that I've ever played it online.

[Shinova]

They've announced a Source version. That's it, so far.

[Hamel]

So it is good? I heard 2.0 was crapola. Not that I've ever played it online.

2.1 was considered alien dominated because, due to the fucked up hitboxes, fades and onos were very difficult to hit if you didn't know their hot spots. For example, in 2.1, the only place on the onos where it took damage was around the back legs. Fades were harder to hit back then as well as possessing better blink, and thank god, because they were made of paper.


3.0 has brought us an alien race consisting of all hit and runners. Onos, despite getting a gigantic hp/ap boost to compensate for better hitboxes, is torn through easily. Lerks don't have much of a support role anymore, thanks to the spectator mode-like flying and removal of spikes. That sort of manueverability was a novelty at first, but didn't improve the unit.

Someone on the team is working on a new blink, evidently. I downloaded a preliminary blink mod that works in HLDM. You use secondary fire with the crowbar, then a pixel shader kicks in and you start flying around lerk style until your energy runs out. Funky dunky, but I doubt that will be implemented as is.

Buttplugs, 3.0 final is something I'm looking forward to later on this day. That and the chinese buffet I'm going to be eating at later.

[Shinova]

3.0 has brought us an alien race consisting of all hit and runners. Onos, despite getting a gigantic hp/ap boost to compensate for better hitboxes, is torn through easily. Lerks don't have much of a support role anymore, thanks to the spectator mode-like flying and removal of spikes. That sort of manueverability was a novelty at first, but didn't improve the unit.

......... so is all that good or bad?

[Hamel]

3.0 has brought us an alien race consisting of all hit and runners. Onos, despite getting a gigantic hp/ap boost to compensate for better hitboxes, is torn through easily. Lerks don't have much of a support role anymore, thanks to the spectator mode-like flying and removal of spikes. That sort of manueverability was a novelty at first, but didn't improve the unit.

......... so is all that good or bad?

Bad, since every unit except the gorge is a variation of the skulk. The 3.0 final isn't changing that, but offers a viable first chamber sensory among other things.

The biggest problem with the 3.0 betas?

Co_ was a mistake and didn't succeed in its goal of training newbs for the ns_ gametype. All it did was attract CheaterStrike retards like aimbotters and stat whores. The UWE forumers deny that cheats are becoming a big problem, but check out the nsarmslab.com ban forums and see how many assholes they catch per week. That certainly contrasts what the idiots at UWE say about "I've seen one aimbotter in my 3 years of NS DUUUURRR"

[Slartibartfast]

<snip explanation>

Ok, that's very informative. There's also another point I heard, that at some point the whole "strategic command" thing was left behind or something? Or maybe I understood wrong.

[Hamel]

<snip explanation>

Ok, that's very informative. There's also another point I heard, that at some point the whole "strategic command" thing was left behind or something? Or maybe I understood wrong.

Never heard of this. If you mean commanding, then that's still around and is critical to how the game works.

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, right. Yeah that would have been silly.

[Melkor]

<snip explanation>

Ok, that's very informative. There's also another point I heard, that at some point the whole "strategic command" thing was left behind or something? Or maybe I understood wrong.

There is a special mode now called combat that lacks the commanding. Its only one type of game available though and the real ns with a commander is still around.

[Shinova]

I played it a bit last night and asked around whether the aliens really had been reduced to hit-and-runners, and everyone says they've actually been buffed since the last beta.


Marines won, aliens won, it could go either way it seems.

[Hamel]

I played it a bit last night and asked around whether the aliens really had been reduced to hit-and-runners, and everyone says they've actually been buffed since the last beta.


Marines won, aliens won, it could go either way it seems.

After giving the final more time, I've decided that the onos and fade aren't as hit-and-run as they used to be. The buffs are enough to make carapace onos/skulk/lerk/gorge practical, due largely to innate regen.


There are some serious bugs in 3.0. One of them is damage related - last night 4 marines with lvl 1 shotties walked into a hive and killed it in less than a second, literally. That simply isn't possible by normal means. I've seen cara fades die to two direct(? probably not) shotgun hits~ again, not supposed to be possible. Certainly not lag related since most people were under 100 ping.

Notice an invisible structure in ns_hera's chemical transport room that blocks you when you're coming from the satellite relay path. Ns_bast has a bsp error close to refinery (oh yeah, bast. They raped the shit out of that map). The charge bug is still there and almost got me killed thrice. Unless I was having lag problems, I think devour has inherited this bug. Quite often, it simply doesn't work.

[Stark]

IMO, ever since the quite okay early versions (like, since 2 and crappy 2.1) NS has basically sucked. The developers idea of 'balance' (ie, Onos is shit because its slow and huge, give it enormous regen) is laughable, and the old Lerk flying was much more fun. Whoever designed the 'shoot through walls at enemy buildings' gun was a retard. Those old hitboxes were hugely enjoyable though

They need to sit down, and either go back to basics (like, what works in a marines vs biological aliens setting) or simply dump half the alien units and design new ones. A powerful quadruped that ISN'T a huge, slow walking target (like, a tiger or something) would be useful. Sadly, they just keep changing around the existing stuff, wondering why it doesn't work anymore.

*AND* the marine weapons (in 2.1 at least, I'm not wasting anymore bandwidth on NS) were unimpressive. I know some groups that played it and enjoyed it: but 2.1 was just horrible. I *might* stretch to pull down the changelog and see if they fixed any of the problems, but I'm not optimistic.

[Shinova]

The siege cannon is quite counterable, and either needs a constant LOS or constant scanning to spot. Just find where they have it set up and rush it.

Marine weapons are good. The LMGs weak like it's supposed to be, but the shottie and HMG are monsters if used right. And the grenade launcher's been getting buffs ever since the original, IIRC.

Oh yeah, you have a grenade now.

[Stark]

My problem with the cannon isn't that its too powerful - its that its STUPID. Its a clumsy hamfisted fix for gameplay issues that should've been solved at a lower level. But eh - the devs broke TS way back when too, so I guess mod teams are usually idiots. It amuses me that CS is still getting tweaks, after almost a decade. THAT is funny shit.

[Shinova]

LOL, TS broke? Bwahahahaa!


1.5 had no recoil, 2.0 introduces proper recoil. 2.0 had balance and gameplay issues in the form of guns like MAC10 and an overpowered kung fu, fixed in 2.1.. The current version has a glitched G20 and overpowered MP5SD, both of which will be fixed next version.


I don't know where you're getting your "broke" idea.

[Hamel]

Two reasons why I've stayed away from TS for awhile:

I never see servers running Urban Nights

That AWP wannabe is whored too much. Keep that CS bullshit out of good mods please

[Shinova]

Two reasons why I've stayed away from TS for awhile:

I never see servers running Urban Nights

That's cause Urban Nights is a sniper-fest and if you wanted to play a sniper-fest, might as well play CS.

That AWP wannabe is whored too much. Keep that CS bullshit out of good mods please

Most maps are close-range. Move through the cover and get the jump on the barret user, or kick that gun out of his hand and he's pretty much defenseless.

If a long-range sniper can stand up to people rushing him from lots of directions, he deserves some level of respect.

And he moves so slowly, so anyone with some decent skill can pick him off.

[Stark]

Shinova, I think we've talked abuot TS before: I really enjoyed 2.0 (the first version I played) and after they changed devs, 2.1 seemed to have a completely different feel and I stopped playing. Its not BAD (its still funky ) but I don't like it anymore. The MAC10 was FINE. Balance is for girls! Of course, I liked all the fixes included, just not the game-changing stuff. I'm not surprised it got broken, with a forum full of 'wah, I take a pistol and get killed at long range by rifle-users. NERF RIFLES U FAGS k thx n00b'.

As an aside, mod teams need to learn something, anything, about software development. They almost all have 'feature creep', they almost all constantly change the way the game 'should' be played, etc. CS is a perfect example: 8 years later, they're STILL tweaking the guns.

[Shinova]

Shinova, I think we've talked abuot TS before: I really enjoyed 2.0 (the first version I played) and after they changed devs, 2.1 seemed to have a completely different feel and I stopped playing. Its not BAD (its still funky ) but I don't like it anymore. The MAC10 was FINE. Balance is for girls! Of course, I liked all the fixes included, just not the game-changing stuff. I'm not surprised it got broken, with a forum full of 'wah, I take a pistol and get killed at long range by rifle-users. NERF RIFLES U FAGS k thx n00b'.

MAC10 was a submachine gun that could kill in three or four hits and had the fastest firing rate in the entire game with an easily manageable recoil. It was unbalanced.


And if you're worried about rifles getting nerfed, they haven't been nerfed as much as one would think. They're still deadly enough that if an excellent pistol user can rack up a 5:1 ratio with a pistol, he can rack up a 15:1 or so with a rifle.

Most people aren't skilled so they whine if some dude with a dinky pistol caps their head while they spray all over the place, when it's really them who just need some patience and practice.

[Exonerate]

I played the new version of NS a bit - not that many noticable changes, but then again, I'm a co_ whore. I noticed that although they claimed worldspawn deaths from xeno were fixed, that didn't seem to be the case, as I still saw somebody die from it.

And all alien units, unless working in tandem with others, are hit and run units. Realistically, no alien is going to last long alone against half a dozen marines with HMG/SGs and good aim. Personally, I don't see any major issues with balance.