Do you consider save/reload to be cheating?

[Rye]

If I get to a tense bit that takes a lot of precision to do exactly what I want to do, I will save it every step of the way and reload if I fuck something up. Like in Max Payne If I go into a gunfight and accidentally bullettime down some stairs, or get shot in the back out of my own stupidity, when I KNOW I can play that bit better.

I hate it when I act stupidly in a computer game, so I do go back and rectify it, if I feel it is within my ability in the first place, and hopefully learn from it and become a better gamer.

Also I do it in really tense bits because saving it offers that little bit more security.

[Slartibartfast]

In single-player games it's usually possible to use the save/reload technique to erase mistakes, overcome randomized game elements by repeatedly trying until you get what you want, prepare for random "disasters" in sim-style or strategy games, etc. Do you consider this cheating? If so, do you actually avoid ever doing it?

I blame Sierra.

[Graeme Dice]

If so, do you actually avoid ever doing it?

I don't consider it to be cheating, unless the game is a roguelike that implements perma-death. I do recognize that Power Word: Reload is the most powerful ability in a player's arsenal, and don't always use it.

Baldur's Gate II has an interesting section where you save a team of three low-level adventurers then send them off on a Fed-Ex quest to get an item for you. When they return, they decide to attack for your "cool items" and get promptly slaughtered. They then reload and decide to just give you the item you wanted.

[Enforcer Talen]

In single-player games it's usually possible to use the save/reload technique to erase mistakes, overcome randomized game elements by repeatedly trying until you get what you want, prepare for random "disasters" in sim-style or strategy games, etc. Do you consider this cheating? If so, do you actually avoid ever doing it?

nope! I do it habitually.

[Vympel]

Baldur's Gate II has an interesting section where you save a team of three low-level adventurers then send them off on a Fed-Ex quest to get an item for you. When they return, they decide to attack for your "cool items" and get promptly slaughtered. They then reload and decide to just give you the item you wanted.

Easily the funniest moment in gaming history. Watching someone *else* load the game for once was hilarious. The entire exchange was a laugh-riot. The three classic n00b characters- the barbarian, the mage with one magic missile, and the thief ... with the dreaded backstab!

[Sharpshooter]

I've got a bad habit of doing it (emulators with save-stage capabilities are breeding grounds for this behavior) though I usually do so primarily for the purpose of trying to bypass a major problem or a deathtrap. Case in point, X-COM: Apocolypse: when doing tactical missions later on in the game, the enemies - and lots of them - get access to rocket launchers that can fire at a rate of about a round a second, reload time included. Given that a considerabl high number of the enemis in an area carry them, it was a common sight to see one of my five-man squads getting raped by a salvo of two or three rockets in the span of one or two seconds. Not to mention Poppers, either - those little shits, prior to Skeletoids with said launchers and my researching of personal shields, were the bane of tactical missions when a single kamakazi run could take out three or four agents.

As for reloading just to get a particular item or circumstance - I'm willing to bet I did it once or twice, but on the whole, I stay away from it simply because I'm sort of apathetic about what I receive.

Of couse, in gams where records are kept (X-COM and GTA primarily) I just hate hving that little reminder staring me in the face every time I look at my stats...

[Azazel]

I don't consider it cheating, but I do think it's fun to play a game you really like without saving/restore at all, see if you can do it. Like how Diablo 2 implemented the "Hell mode" where it was harder than the highest difficulty, but, with the added "bonus" that your characters were stored on their servers and if you died ever while progressing through the game, that character was dead and gone forever, including all items. That's pretty intense.

It's hardcore mode.

I have a friend who plays D2. He told me once he let his character die rather than 'save/exit' because he felt that was cheating. His character was level 50 or something. Talk about principles!

Yeah I used to play Hc.

[Darth Servo]

I do it all the time. But thats only because I'm a perfectionist and can't stand to lose ANYTHING. My brother "time travels" while playing Master of Orion all the time, but only near the beginning of the game so he can get all the best planets. Is it cheating? I'm still debating that one.

[Vendetta]

Only in some games. Most notably in Survival Horror games, I'll repeat sections to try and get through them with a little more life and/or ammo left occasionally.

Of course, they usually rely on fixed save points, and often have a tendency to seperate you from same points for periods of time...

[The Prime Necromancer]

I do it all the time. But thats only because I'm a perfectionist and can't stand to lose ANYTHING. My brother "time travels" while playing Master of Orion all the time, but only near the beginning of the game so he can get all the best planets. Is it cheating? I'm still debating that one.

I can be the same. Although in RPGs, it's not just about perfection, but also how I feel about how the story "should" play out. Also, in games with complex dialogue trees I have a tendency to play those portions over and over again to see what the different choices do, and then ultimately choosing the one I like the best.

But I'm with Petrosjko: if it is cheating, it's like cheating at Solitaire. Who the fuck cares? You play a game to have fun, and that means playing in a way that is most enjoyable to you. If that involves cheating, so what? Nobody else is getting hurt.

[Batman]

I'm basically with Petro. Who, pray tell, am I cheating in a single player game?

[Darth Servo]

But I'm with Petrosjko: if it is cheating, it's like cheating at Solitaire. Who the fuck cares? You play a game to have fun, and that means playing in a way that is most enjoyable to you. If that involves cheating, so what? Nobody else is getting hurt.

I guess you're just cheating yourself. If your goal is to get really good at the particular game, you're not doing yourself any favors but if you just want to kick everyone's ass, whats the difference between the save/restore route and "god mode"?

[andrewgpaul]

I admit to the 'save/restore thing on GTA 3, but only because I'd read about the rewards for a 100% rating. Ironically, it still eludes me, because I'm shite at the Off-Road missions. My file got corrupted on VC, so I had to restart the game, from 97% finished

As for FPS, I'm doing the whole 'quicksave, then open door' with Doom 3. On the other hand, it's more fun than doing the whole level again without any guns because I got busted by an Imp 3 rooms from the end.

I remember MDK had no save points - you had to do the whole level in one go. Then they released a patch so you could save mid-level, and I rattled through the final level much faster than the previous 5. Maybe it was just because it was so much less frustrating, only having to repeat 2 or 3 rooms, rather than the whole level, each time I died.

I kinda like the way Halo does it - it saves it automatically, every so often, but it chooses the save points.

[Styphon]

interestingly enough, I now face the prospect of not being able to "cheat" this way...

as I said in a recent vent, I recently purchased a copy of Breath of Fire III that my PS2 refuses to play... and the only PS1 emulator I can find that works with my computer (it's Mac OS 9) has no way of saving...

so it's going to be very interesting trying to play that game...