What's wrong with the WOTC D20 Star Wars RPG?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-07-14 01:09am

For the whole "OMG, everything stops at level 20!" line, I would like to point out that this isn't necessarily a failing of the d20 system (though the system does start to break down beyond approximately level 30 to 35, becoming simply ludicrous at 40), but rather the idiocy of the SWd20 writers. The system as written allows for unlimited levels in theory, but for all practical purposes the d20 roll becomes meaningless as bonuses rise to +40 or more.

(This isn't even a failing of D&D as Stofsk mentioned. Epic (that is to say, 20+) level progressions are contained in the Dungeon Master's Guide rather than the Player's Handbook in the 3.5 edition, and there are multiple NPCs in the major published settings that are far above 20th level, the most prominent being Mordenkainen and Elminster.)

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-07-14 07:14am

Rogue 9 wrote:For the whole "OMG, everything stops at level 20!" line, I would like to point out that this isn't necessarily a failing of the d20 system (though the system does start to break down beyond approximately level 30 to 35, becoming simply ludicrous at 40), but rather the idiocy of the SWd20 writers. The system as written allows for unlimited levels in theory, but for all practical purposes the d20 roll becomes meaningless as bonuses rise to +40 or more.

True, true.

To be honest, a d20 is too big a probability range anyway. To perform any action with regularity is a dicy proposition at best (heh). They should have used a d10, 3d6, 2d8 or something else, perhaps open-ended.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-07-14 03:20pm

A d10 is really the perfect die. I found that it has just the right range and just the right number of probability gradients. Roll 2 of them and it's a d100. And you don't have to do any mental gymnastics in your head to figure out the % chance of success.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-07-14 09:43pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:A d10 is really the perfect die. I found that it has just the right range and just the right number of probability gradients. Roll 2 of them and it's a d100. And you don't have to do any mental gymnastics in your head to figure out the % chance of success.

Have you tried this before? What happens if you change the core mechanic from d20's to d10's, all the time? For it to work (be compatible with d20 systems without overhauling everything), you would probably have 10 + 1d10. That would guarantee an "average" roll.

Heroes should be above average all the time anyway. I like your idea, I'm going to steal it (if I ever get around to playing lol).

Brian

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-07-14 09:53pm

brianeyci wrote: Have you tried this before? What happens if you change the core mechanic from d20's to d10's, all the time? For it to work (be compatible with d20 systems without overhauling everything), you would probably have 10 + 1d10. That would guarantee an "average" roll.

Heroes should be above average all the time anyway. I like your idea, I'm going to steal it (if I ever get around to playing lol).

Brian

Except the average roll would be 15 instead of 10. That's a pretty hefty raise.

Instead, if you want the bell curve to be more interesting, try substituting the d20 for 2d10. You'll never get a natural 1, but give "2" the same meaning and you're all set.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-07-15 01:35am

The probability of getting two d10s to both get ones isn't quite as likely as 1/20, however. In fact it may be 1/100, but my 1 year college education can't confirm that after midnight. It's not 2-20, it's (1-10) + (1-10).

It's something that affects D6 to a much higher degree; a roll of 5d6 has a range of 5-30 but you'll end up the middle 4 or 5 numbers almost half the time, which wouldn't be the case if you had a single roll to make rather than adding up 5. You won't get lucky as often but the average is a much more solid median.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-07-15 01:55am

Utsanomiko wrote:The probability of getting two d10s to both get ones isn't quite as likely as 1/20, however. In fact it may be 1/100, but my 1 year college education can't confirm that after midnight. It's not 2-20, it's (1-10) + (1-10).

...and that's precisely the reason why I mentioned you'd want it -

if you want the bell curve to be more interesting

- see? The bell curve of the d20, coupled with the skill levels in WotC's little abortion, makes the game horridly random. I mean, honestly, were you under the impression I wanted to exchange the d20 for a mechanism that didn't differ at all, or what?

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-07-15 02:18am

I read everything in your post properly, except I somehow skipped over the words 'bell curve'. Whoops.

So you're absolutely right, it would be an interesting curve of results and I mentioned it reduces the amount of extremes.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-07-15 02:43am

Utsanomiko wrote:I read everything in your post properly, except I somehow skipped over the words 'bell curve'. Whoops.

So you're absolutely right, it would be an interesting curve of results and I mentioned it reduces the amount of extremes.

Never mind, I overreacted anyway. I think the results you're looking for there could be approximated by letting results "2" and "3" be the same as a "1" on the d20. Otherwise, there's the ever-popular 3D6... shorter curve, but excellent spread.