KOTOR II Influence System and the Dark Side

[Stravo]

I finished KOTOR as lightside. Now I'm trying it as a Darksider and running into an issue. According to the guide that I perused in Barnes and Noble you can make lightsiders like Atton and Mira turn to the darkside and even shows a picture of what they would look like dark sided.

However as you guys that played know Mira especially is a goody two shoes so any dialogue options that I have with her that will win influence means I have to treat her nice. Yet that may lead to pesky lightside points and I certainly don't want to lose darkside mastery just to be nice to the goody goodies yet I want to corrupt them soooo bad.

ANy ideas how to get around this?

Also an addtional note, I've experimented with different saber configurations (ie. single, two handed, double bladed) and found that the double bladed saber seems to be the way to go in terms of damage and to hit. Anyone else find this the same or are there other configurations (and any crystal combos) you prefer or suggest. I want my Sith Lord to be a murder machine in melee. And did I read the description for the Sith Marauder Prestige class correctly? Can they wear armor and still use force powers?!

[Ghost Rider]

To do this you have to go to Nar Shadda Early. Literally be decently good, because being any decent of evil, you get Han Harr.

Unfortunatly no class uses armor and force at the same time, but Maraduar do get SIGINFICANT two handed feats. Though with a small trick...you can be level 40+ and crush anything.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Dual sabers generally give you better damage due to the fact that you can use two more crystals in total, so I'd recomend that.

A sith lord is easily the best class to corrupt people but isn't designed for melee, rather for force powers. (Haven't played a marauder yet)

[Master of Ossus]

Dual sabers generally give you better damage due to the fact that you can use two more crystals in total, so I'd recomend that.

Dual sabers are more effective against weak enemies, because you're sacrificing your attack bonus for more damage. It's also more versatile because you can mix-and-match your crystal combinations. Against powerful or well-armored enemies, the double-bladed saber and the single saber are better, because you'll be able to hit them more often even though you won't be swinging as much.

[Stravo]

Dual sabers generally give you better damage due to the fact that you can use two more crystals in total, so I'd recomend that.

Dual sabers are more effective against weak enemies, because you're sacrificing your attack bonus for more damage. It's also more versatile because you can mix-and-match your crystal combinations. Against powerful or well-armored enemies, the double-bladed saber and the single saber are better, because you'll be able to hit them more often even though you won't be swinging as much.

That's what I found. My double bladed saber really racked up some serious damage near the end. My light sider was 15th Level Guardian, 12th Weaponmaster and I was doling out over a hundred points in one attack, out of the 6-9 attacks you can hit with in 1 turn using Master Speed and Master Flurry together. I killed Darth Nihilus in two of those Master speed/flurry strikes and the same with Traya.

And BTW anyone else severely let down by Nihilus? You spent 3/4 of the game being told that he was so powerful that he could suck the life out of a planet and we were so beneath his notice he could not see us. I walked onto that bridge expecting a run and slice battle like the one against Malak in KOTOR. I stocked up on Medpacs and all manner of shit and next thing I know...two attacks later...that's IT?!?! WTF?!?!

[Dakarne]

Okay, Sabre wise:
I'm a bit of a Wars-purist so I go with a Single Sabre if at all possible, I also go with the Force-oriented classes a little more.

Now, Storyline wise:
I thought the entire storyline, and the fact that Revan just pissed off into the unknown regions was a bit pathetic. Nihilus was a big letdown, here I was expecting a dramatic fight with a bit of difficulty. Not happening, I had to wait until I fought Traya to have any challenge whatsoever.

[Trogdor]

And BTW anyone else severely let down by Nihilus? You spent 3/4 of the game being told that he was so powerful that he could suck the life out of a planet and we were so beneath his notice he could not see us. I walked onto that bridge expecting a run and slice battle like the one against Malak in KOTOR. I stocked up on Medpacs and all manner of shit and next thing I know...two attacks later...that's IT?!?! WTF?!?!

Oh hell yeah, I was disappointed. Visas makes him out to be nearly invincible, he dominates the cover of the box, and he's a wuss. It kind of makes sense, seeing as how he hadn't "eaten" for some time that he would be weak at that moment, but still, a big let down. Lord Sion provides a much better fight.

As for your problem with influence and the dark side, well, I have to tell you, KOTOR2 is Jedi's game, not a Sith's. You simply cannot gain influence with some people without gaining light side points. There are always more dark side points than light side points available, though, and there are some glicthes that can be exploited. Like, IIRC, in the second fight with the Handmaiden, use the Force. She'll get pissed off because you're not supposed to. Tell her that you did it to show her that it's foolish to expect people to play by her rules in combat, then insult her. It'll get you influence with her and some dark side points. Because of the glitch, this can be repeated over and over until you win the fight without using the Force.

It's barely worth it to do KOTOR2 darksided, though. Sure, Bao-Dur starts looking like Darth Maul if you somehow manage to push that goody two shoes to the dark side, but there really aren't very many benefits. The women get made less hot by the dark side. You get psycho wookie instead of hot red head. Most of your party dislikes you. Kriea yells at you for different reasons. Unlike with KOTOR, the story changes practically not at all. And I swear I was weaker as a Sith than a Jedi, possibly because the light side ways of resolving most of the side quests are more complex and yield more experience.

[Master of Ossus]

You become massively over-powered in KotORII. Part of what made the original game so good was that it was challenging, with battles throughout the fight that required careful use of medpacs and one-time-use items. KotORII lets you run around with a character that can basically one-hit-kill anything.

[Trogdor]

Oh please, if you know what you're doing in KOTOR, it can be the same way. I remember bouncing around the Star Forge like a jumping bean on crack with Force Jump, cutting down everybody with one hit, thanks to my two lightsabers with the Heart of the Guardian and Mantle of the Force inside them.

[Master of Ossus]

Oh please, if you know what you're doing in KOTOR, it can be the same way. I remember bouncing around the Star Forge like a jumping bean on crack with Force Jump, cutting down everybody with one hit, thanks to my two lightsabers with the Heart of the Guardian and Mantle of the Force inside them.

The point is, though, that it was an accomplishment to get to be like that in the original game. The second game also FORCED your character to be a god by spoon-feeding you ridiculous items throughout the entire thing.

[Skelron]

Now, Storyline wise:
I thought the entire storyline, and the fact that Revan just pissed off into the unknown regions was a bit pathetic. Nihilus was a big letdown, here I was expecting a dramatic fight with a bit of difficulty. Not happening, I had to wait until I fought Traya to have any challenge whatsoever.

While the Storyline in KOTORII was rushed towards the end. (And while I don't want to rehash a conversation that has been done to death) It should be pointed out that the Revan disappearing is not a major weakness. Since there will be a THird part. (A third Part which will hopefully settle the current KOTOR plotline) So it does help to think of KOTOR II as Empire Strikes back, Hans been captured and lukes off to rescue him. In this case, Revan's gone missing and at last you have a clue as to where to find him, now your off to find the poor guy and save the universe.

[Stravo]

It's barely worth it to do KOTOR2 darksided, though. Sure, Bao-Dur starts looking like Darth Maul if you somehow manage to push that goody two shoes to the dark side, but there really aren't very many benefits. The women get made less hot by the dark side. You get psycho wookie instead of hot red head. Most of your party dislikes you. Kriea yells at you for different reasons. Unlike with KOTOR, the story changes practically not at all. And I swear I was weaker as a Sith than a Jedi, possibly because the light side ways of resolving most of the side quests are more complex and yield more experience.

I have come to the same conlusion. The light side gets the better goodies in my opinion (Solari crystal, Robes of Ossus, etc) and the healing ability costs you so much when you have dark side mastery that you might as well use medpacs.

The game seems to be fun based solely on the fact that you can be an asshole but you tend to lose your better characters (I find HKwhetever to be next to useless and Mandalore is meh.) Nothing like storming the Tomb of Freedon Nadd with three Jedi, a lightsided Atten, Handmaiden as the leader duel wielding and the Vissus as Jedi Support. We tore through the Sith like lightning.

I don't know if it would be as satisfying with some darksided characters like HanHarr, etc.

And another thing, this may seem silly but the KOTOR games really require your backup to be Jedi as well to be as effective. In KOTOR my party tended to be me Bastilla and either the Tiger Girl or Jolee depending if I wanted a heavily combat oriented team or wanted to show off Force powers.

I rarely used Carth after I got Jollee, even rarer still did I use Canderous or the Wookie and I never used T4 or HK.

In KOTOR II I find that my team as a lightsider tended to be Force using Handmaiden and Kreia. I rarely if ever used Mira, Mandalore or preforce user Atten.

It would be nice if the non Force using characters could be more useful or guns weren't so nerfed. BUt hey, its a game about Jedi right?

[Trogdor]

I'll conceed that you basically wind up a god character in KOTOR2 whether you want to or not, but what ridiculous items were there? It seemed to me that the cause of the power increase was the new feats, force powers, the fact that your VP regenerated over time, and the raising of the level cap. The only such item I can think off of the top of my head is the "Your name" crystal, which I missed the first time through. Hell, in Kotor they made you raid the ancient Sith's tombs for crying out loud.

[Stravo]

As an added aside concerning the KOTOR storyline. It gets really old really fast when EU people have to write plots like "You thought these were the Sith but out there you'll find the REAL Sith and they are SOOooooo Scary powerful that it makes movie era villains look like children."

Movie era should be the ideal and not the thing to always surpass.

Palpatine? Pfftttt...let me introduce you to Exar Kun who could destroy planets and extinguish stars.

Darth Vader? LOL. Nihilus absorbs planets and Sidon can regenerate himself at will. Vader got his legs cut off and burned and he needed help to survive and a suit. Sidon can be chopped up, bones ground to dust and still walk around unaided with any wimpy suits.

That annoys me. You can make compelling storylines without trying to upstage the foundation storyline of your universe.

Now we have a possible Great Old Ones Sith hanging out beyind the Rim. I pray its not that cliched.

[Stravo]

I'll conceed that you basically wind up a god character in KOTOR2 whether you want to or not, but what ridiculous items were there? It seemed to me that the cause of the power increase was the new feats, force powers, the fact that your VP regenerated over time, and the raising of the level cap. The only such item I can think off of the top of my head is the "Your name" crystal, which I missed the first time through. Hell, in Kotor they made you raid the ancient Sith's tombs for crying out loud.

Things like the YOURNAME Crystal can be so unbalancing. I was nowhere near the cap and my character was sporting stats like Strength: 30 Wisdom: 25 due to the buffs granted by some of these items.

I found the combat easy even at the lowest levels. I rarely died unlike KOTOR where I was always saving before entering every room. There are some levels I can walk through and only save to make sure I make things like key persuausion rolls, etc.

By the end of the game I was sporting skill levels like 25 in persuasion. I resorted to pouring points in skills I never used like Stealth and Demolitions.

And again I was nowhere near the level cap.

In KOTOR you had to be careful what you put skill points into and what Feats you took. In the sequel I was taking feats because I just leveled out everything I wanted.

[Steven Snyder]

Oh hell yeah, I was disappointed. Visas makes him out to be nearly invincible, he dominates the cover of the box, and he's a wuss. It kind of makes sense, seeing as how he hadn't "eaten" for some time that he would be weak at that moment, but still, a big let down. Lord Sion provides a much better fight.

The reason that Nihilus was such a wuss is because the main protagonist was a 'hole in the force'. So when Nihilus tried to drain him, there was nothing there to sink his teeth into. So all that expenditure of energy that Nihilus used, gave no return.

Nihilus killed entire planets, Keira selected the protagonist because he was the only one she could find that was immune to this particular power.

[Trogdor]

As an added aside concerning the KOTOR storyline. It gets really old really fast when EU people have to write plots like "You thought these were the Sith but out there you'll find the REAL Sith and they are SOOooooo Scary powerful that it makes movie era villains look like children."

Movie era should be the ideal and not the thing to always surpass.

Palpatine? Pfftttt...let me introduce you to Exar Kun who could destroy planets and extinguish stars.

Darth Vader? LOL. Nihilus absorbs planets and Sidon can regenerate himself at will. Vader got his legs cut off and burned and he needed help to survive and a suit. Sidon can be chopped up, bones ground to dust and still walk around unaided with any wimpy suits.

That annoys me. You can make compelling storylines without trying to upstage the foundation storyline of your universe.

Now we have a possible Great Old Ones Sith hanging out beyind the Rim. I pray its not that cliched.

Nihilius didn't really bother me. Sure, he could kill planets with the Force, but he HAD to keep killing planets, preferably those with Jedi, or starve. I mean, look a him when you catch him hungry. He's a weak little bitch! It's obvious why Palpy wouldn't take that power if he could.

And even with the flaws you pointed out, the KOTOR games are still better than much of the EU. Look at the new books that are coming out. It's the same basic plot as the NJO: extra-galactic civilization comes and attacks the SW galaxy, rawr!

At least KOTOR had the good sense to change the nature of the conflict. With Revan the war was out in the open. Everybody knew it was happening. The Sith war machine was blatantly trying to crush the Republic. With KOTOR2 it's a shadow conflict. Only the players knew it was happening and it was obvious that the Exile wouldn't be getting any parades at the end, regardless of what he did.

[Trogdor]

Oh hell yeah, I was disappointed. Visas makes him out to be nearly invincible, he dominates the cover of the box, and he's a wuss. It kind of makes sense, seeing as how he hadn't "eaten" for some time that he would be weak at that moment, but still, a big let down. Lord Sion provides a much better fight.

The reason that Nihilus was such a wuss is because the main protagonist was a 'hole in the force'. So when Nihilus tried to drain him, there was nothing there to sink his teeth into. So all that expenditure of energy that Nihilus used, gave no return.

Nihilus killed entire planets, Keira selected the protagonist because he was the only one she could find that was immune to this particular power.

That makes a whole lot of sense. Never thought about that before. Thanks.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Oh hell yeah, I was disappointed. Visas makes him out to be nearly invincible, he dominates the cover of the box, and he's a wuss. It kind of makes sense, seeing as how he hadn't "eaten" for some time that he would be weak at that moment, but still, a big let down. Lord Sion provides a much better fight.

The reason that Nihilus was such a wuss is because the main protagonist was a 'hole in the force'. So when Nihilus tried to drain him, there was nothing there to sink his teeth into. So all that expenditure of energy that Nihilus used, gave no return.

Nihilus killed entire planets, Keira selected the protagonist because he was the only one she could find that was immune to this particular power.

This makes a whole lot of sense, fits the plot and everything, but it's still an awful fucking anti-climax and it's not like Sion or Traya pose much more of a challenge, is it? I don't think I used a single healing thingymabob against Sion and Traya was pretty weak too.

[Civil War Man]

It's barely worth it to do KOTOR2 darksided, though. Sure, Bao-Dur starts looking like Darth Maul if you somehow manage to push that goody two shoes to the dark side, but there really aren't very many benefits. The women get made less hot by the dark side. You get psycho wookie instead of hot red head. Most of your party dislikes you. Kriea yells at you for different reasons. Unlike with KOTOR, the story changes practically not at all. And I swear I was weaker as a Sith than a Jedi, possibly because the light side ways of resolving most of the side quests are more complex and yield more experience.

I agree with the overall sentiment (I usually don't like being the bad guy anyway), but I have a couple things to add:

1) I always found Bao-Dur, dark or light, a little creepy. Probably just his weird puckered face and voice.

2) Evil Handmaiden doesn't look that different from Good Handmaiden, except she wears darker eye shadow and lipstick. Evil Visas doesn't really change, though I think it's because a) she starts out evil, and b) you can't see most of her face anyway. Evil Mira I've never seen, since the times I played evil I always got Hanharr.

3) Speaking of Hanharr, he's fun to play with as a darksider. He's really the only character you gain experience from by being cruel to. And if you break his will, he gets fun bonuses. That and he's by far the best non-Jedi fighter in the game. A KOTOR Wookiee that fights well was sort of a breath of fresh air from the incapacitation magnet known as Zaalbar.

4) IMHO, one of the few things worthwhile being darkside in KOTOR 2 is that you need to be evil to gain influence with HK-47, and when you have high enough influence, he'll express his opinions about select members of the group he travelled with in the previous game. Oh, and he gives you tips on killing, but you're already good at that.

5) The robes are much, much prettier in KOTOR 2.

[Civil War Man]

Sorry for the double-post, but I just had to add a few things.

Stravo, you mentioned your character was a Guardian/Weaponmaster. You can twink the character more by starting as a Sentinel. Sentinels develop an immunity to immobilizing force powers, gain skills significantly faster than any other Jedi, and aren't really worse at combat than a Guardian in any significant way. The only advantages the Guardian class really has is jumping (which cannot be used at all until you make your lightsaber) and a couple extra feats.

As for the prestige classes, they're basically just there to give you a chance to switch to a different type of Jedi in the middle of the game. Started out as a Sentinel, but want to be better as lightsaber combat? Become a Weaponmaster/Marauder! You were a Consular, but want to be a ninja? Become a Watchman/Assassin!

[GeneralTacticus]

I'll conceed that you basically wind up a god character in KOTOR2 whether you want to or not, but what ridiculous items were there? It seemed to me that the cause of the power increase was the new feats, force powers, the fact that your VP regenerated over time, and the raising of the level cap. The only such item I can think off of the top of my head is the "Your name" crystal, which I missed the first time through. Hell, in Kotor they made you raid the ancient Sith's tombs for crying out loud.

Well, there's the Kaiburr (spelling?) crystal, which gave you bonuses to (IIRC), Constitution and Wisdom, plus extra regeneration; the Barab Ore Ingot, which gives you +2-16 Fire damage when you add it to your 'sabre; the Pontite Crystal, which does +1-10 Cold damage and gives you +2 Charisma, and probably a lot more than I've forgotten.

Worse than that, though, are the upgrade items that you can construct. For isntance, the Pure Rylith Power Cell adds +2-20 Energy damage to a ranged weapon. The Ostrine Edge (for melee weapons) gives +2-16 Cold damage and resistance to heat. And there are lots more like that. With a bit of work, you can make a bog-standard vibrosword deadlier than any lightsabre, and with the Force Deflection/Redirection powers, it doesn't even have the disadvantage of being unable to deflect blaster fire.

And the armour? Anybody remember the Biorestorative Underlay? You could add it to any decent Jedi or Sith Robe, and the ebst ones gave +3 CON and a Regeneration of 3. Or how about the Flexibility Underlays that could be added to medium or heavy armour, which somehow gave you a DEX bonus?

As for the Influence system and turning people to the Dark Side - my advice is just to take the LS points and get rid of them later, either hoenstly, or through one of the Infinite DSPs bugs; aside form the previously mentioned one with the Handmaiden, there's one on the Dantooine landing pad with the protcol droid. Repair it, and it will call you a Jedi, which makes the nearby mechanic very angry. Threaten him into silence (DO NOT kill him), and he'll go back to what he was doing, and you'll get DSPs. You can then go through same dialog tree again, with the same result, and keep doing it over and over until you hit Dark Side Mastery again.

Also, I should point out that even if you've been as nice as can be to your NPCs, and picked up lots of Light Side points as a result, they'll still become Dark Jedi if you're Dark Side when you train them. My favourite example of this is my corruption of the Disciple as a female character; I had a conversation with him that basically consisted of me smiling and nodding and saying "Yes, the Jedi were good; yes, the Republic is important; yes, I'll help save the Republic and rebuild the Jedi Order." I end the conversation, open another one, and the Disciple says something along the lines of "You're right. Fuck the Jedi, they're all idiots. I want to be evil like you."