Steam and Steel-II Casting Call

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Pablo Sanchez
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Rawtooth wrote:Okay, I can't make head nor tails of the infantry system. Could someone explain it to me?
1 point = 200 men. The most likely arrangements for land units would be regimental (2000 to 3000) or divisional (~10000) men. You can spend up to three times the point cost of a division on training and regular infantry equipment, and up to six times on artillery.

To simplify, here are some examples.

1. A division of irregulars levied with minimal training and armed with a clutter of elderly small arms.
Each body of 200 men at minimum quality costs 1 point, thus 10000 men cost 50 points.

2. A division of well-trained infantry equipped with modern bolt-action magazine rifles.
200 best quality men cost 3 points, thus 10000 men costs you 150 points.

3. A division of guards infantry equipped with modern bolt-action magazine rifles and carrying horse-drawn artillery (including maxim guns).
200 best quality men with organic field artillery cost 6 points, thus 10000 men costs 300 points (or the same as a battleship).

Cavalry works the same way, but at default they are four times as expensive. Their only real advantage is that they're way faster on the ground. Logic suggests that good men ahorse would be pretty good at police duties and breaking up minimum-quality opponents, but against anything capable of organized volley fire they'd be screwed.

A few notes:
The technology and knowledge base is around 1890, so we won't really appreciate things like "lolz my generals are so smart that they create WWI-style fortifications automatically". People don't know how to do that yet, especially in an up-and-coming former backwater like the Indian Ocean. Machineguns, for example, are deployed like artillery pieces--in wheeled gun carriages.

The basic 50-point division is capable of keeping order, manning fortifications, and so forth. However, battle artillery rules the field and a 300-point division will hammer bargain-priced opponents unmercifully. If you save pennies on your army and a division of Omani Republican Army regulars makes landfall on your coast, it'll hurt. On the other hand, for the same price as I paid for each division you could buy a whole battleship, which is probably more immediately valuable in light of how important sea control is on the map we're using.

My army is weighted at the most professional end of the scale and consumes a pretty large portion of my budget, for RP reasons. Your army is likely to both be less expensive in general and less professional/well equipped in particular.
Edit: And Chewbaca gets six resources?
They were randomly assigned, he got lucky.
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Post by Dahak »

Beowulf wrote:Nietz, your BBs seem undergunned. 2x 13" naval rifles is about half the number of guns a typical BB of this era would have. Your battlecruisers are anachronistic. The battlecruiser concept doesn't get invented until post-Dreadnought. And it's overly well armed as well. It seems even better armed than your BBs.

The protected cruisers are interestingly armed. A single 13in rifle would probably be best replaced with a quartet of medium caliber guns (7-9"). Also, by the points allocated to it, it should be 5,000 tons. The destroyer design as also interestingly armed (and classified, for that matter). Destroyers don't have battleship caliber weapons. Battlecruisers might, but not anything lighter, really (with some exceptions). Destroyer guns are meant to take out lighter opponents. A battleship gun fires too slow and moves too slowly. The destroyer is also about 4 times heavier than it should be. Destroyers in this era are about 500 tons. You have what are really protected cruisers.

On a similar note, your torpedo boats should probably actually be classified as destroyers. And have more torpedoes. And probably a slightly heavier gun. And for that matter, be lighter. While I'm tearing it apart, "slow, heavy, well-armed and armoured torpedo boats" is an oxymoron and a target. A slow, heavy, well armored torpedo boat is not going to be heavily armored enough to with stand a battleships fire, nor fast enough to be able to effectively avoid it.
IIRC it was that, whatever you deign to write in your ship description, it is just for fluff, and we use relative point values in ship strength comparison.
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Post by Beowulf »

True, to a point, but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. Also, it's slightly absurd to say that a "BB" that only has a mass of 4.7" guns will be able to fight a BB with the same points, but 12" guns, and win. And even disregarding that, armament does make some difference. A ship that's not getting hit with torpedoes is going to behave different from a ship that is.
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Post by Dahak »

Beowulf wrote:True, to a point, but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. Also, it's slightly absurd to say that a "BB" that only has a mass of 4.7" guns will be able to fight a BB with the same points, but 12" guns, and win. And even disregarding that, armament does make some difference. A ship that's not getting hit with torpedoes is going to behave different from a ship that is.
You wouldn't even need to specify your ship to that detail. You could just have your mass, point values, and specialisation distribution. Then the whole point is moot.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Dahak wrote:You wouldn't even need to specify your ship to that detail. You could just have your mass, point values, and specialisation distribution. Then the whole point is moot.
But this is also meant to be a game of creativity, story telling, and a dollop of literary work. If we're suddenly going to let blatant absurdities pass with out a mention, indeed accept them as being equal to a good idea simply because of the numbers attached, then we will have a really fucking stupid STGOD. The numbers were supposed to enable a baseline comaprison, not as an execuse to make dumb ideas work.
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Post by Beowulf »

If someone does extensive specifications (and we all know how much STGODers love to do that), but the specs make no sense, then are we to excuse it and let it pass? This is a game of thinking (and diplomacy (and backstabbing)). Specs that don't make sense run counter to the feel of the game, and should be criticized.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Beowulf wrote:If someone does extensive specifications (and we all know how much STGODers love to do that), but the specs make no sense, then are we to excuse it and let it pass? This is a game of thinking (and diplomacy (and backstabbing)). Specs that don't make sense run counter to the feel of the game, and should be criticized.
DExactly.

There are a few exceptions. Both nit and Vanas plan on using a variety of "super Science" that is wholly out of place in the historical setting. However it IS supported by a logical backstory as well as being relativly easy to understand and implament. What needs to be looked at our things changed for the sake of being "different" If someone wants to make somethign new and different, there has to be a logical purpose behind it.

Likewise using "just the numbers" is equally a bad thing. If someone builds a ship with one massive cannon that has an ttack of "50" and someone else has a fully gunned battleship with a multiple of batteries and it has a fire power of "45" I'd hazzard a guess the second has a better chance of winning.

Also don't forgot this is a HISTORICAL game.. For those joing, there is a bit of homework and real study up on the ships and other equipment you produce.
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Post by SirNitram »

Even my power has been revised; I beleive it was Beowulf who explained to me why torpedos are the sizes they were, after I built especially large ones. And I adjusted them down.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Just a heads up, Since most of those in this played last time, I'm going to move things up. I want to get the game as started as soon as possible to try and keep it from dying out, again...

So This time next week we are starting the game itself. Get yourself ready!
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

So, the 20th of January? Perfect, enough time to finish that dammed backstory.
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Post by Rawtooth »

Almost done, just need to finish writing up the back story and I'm still waiting for that map...
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Bumping to keep things near the top of the page... I want to keep this one live people! lets show our intrerest!
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Post by Stormbringer »

I think most people that are serious have already posted their Nation and OOB. There's not much left to do and say until we start the game. I think the people that haven't are the ones strapped for time or otherwise occupied.

So aside from ironing out some people's OOBs, I think we're pretty much set.
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Post by Thirdfain »

Not to be a buzzkill, but if the OOB thread is any indication, we have too few people for a lasting STGOD at this point.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

You can count me in, I already have an OOB ready, it's just there's some extra stuff I want to get written. If I'm not done by the deadline, I can just submit what I have like last time, it's not critically important stuff.
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Post by Redleader34 »

Could someone critque my new edit to my OOB, since we now have a new deadline, and I shall sent out PM's if the other members of the STGOD aggree that the 20th is the deadline.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Why yes, there are various things in your OOB that could use improvement.

Let's start with your map and nation history, because this is important to the setting. First look at a physical map of the area. Do you see Sudan? All of it belongs to the Khaliphate, the expansionist rabidly religious Khaliphate. Now, do you see the mountains that start on the Sudanese border with Ethiopia and Eritrea? Those are what keeps your country from being overrun. I just want you to keep this in mind because it's an important aspect of your country's strategic situation. As such, it's also likely that your real border is a bit to the west, in the mountains proper.

Your history is a bit messed up. The Africans used as slaves in the United States are not from East Africa, they are from West Africa. Many people may think that a black man is a black man, but I assure you the Ethiopians can tell the difference between themselves and the tribes on the other side of the continent, and they wouldn't be particularly welcoming of these foreigners. Get a map of Africa and find Liberia (hint: Nigeria is larger and easier to find, just move east along the coast from there), that is where the United States did it's historical "send the Negroes back to Africa" thing.

Now the Navy. First thing you need to know is that in most navies, the class name is that of the first ship of that class. Essex-class aircraft carriers are named that because the first of the class is the USS Essex. Iowa-class battleships are called that because the first was the USS Iowa. You don't have to follow this scheme, but it's customary to do so.

Suggestions for your OOB:

Orion class - This ship is over gunned, drop the 9" guns to 8".

Globe class - You're obviously going for a protected cruiser here, but the execution is all messed-up. What the hell is a 67 ton gun supposed to be? Where are the light guns? I suggest you put two twin 9.45" guns and 8 5.51" guns*. Then add maybe 12 of those 20mm automatics. The torps are okay. I'd get rid of the turrents, you're not making a monitor (type of ship), just put your main guns in armoured barbettes.

*The measurements are weird because, being based of a French design, it's got metric units. The guns are 240mm and 140mm respectively.

Warrior class - That's based on no British ship I've ever seen, and what is dual-decked supposed to mean? If you want something with a big-ass punch, then here's a good armament: 4 13" guns, 10 6" guns, 20 20mm automatics, 6 torpedo tubes.

Monitor class - That is not a torpedo boat. A torpedo boat is 300 tons at most, more likely only 100 or 200. It's also woefully under armed. At 2500 tons what you've got there in an unprotected cruiser. I would first drop attack to 15 and up speed to 8. It's a patrol boat, it needs a modicum of speed to catch pirates and stuff. Good armament would be: 2 6" guns, 8 4" guns, 10 20mm autos. Hold the torpedoes, that's what real TBs are for.

Suggested Torped Boat - If you want a real torpedo boat, make one that's worth 2 points and give it +1 something.


Army - Dude, your army is all over the place. It's a real mess. My very first suggestion is you retake a look at how to build armies:
Thirdfain wrote:Raising Armies
Required resources: Cotton, Food, Sulfur
Cannon/Machine Guns: Iron, Coal

You recieve 200 men per point spent, or 50 men mounted on horse, further points can be used to increase capability up to 3 times their cost, or up to six times their cost if they have modern artillery.
Another way to express this is that you can spend 1-6 points per 200 infantry and 1-6 points per 50 cavalry. More than 3 points per 200 men/50 horses indicates the presence of artillery.

Note that resources won't be an issue until after the game starts, for now you can buy anything.

You should redo your army list keeping the above in mind and also separating your cavalry and infantry formations. Make separate entries for formations of differing quality and type. Also, you can't buy an enhancement to speed. The only way you can make an army fast here is to mount it on horses or not give it artillery. High quality troops might be trained to march faster (ie, 3pts per 200 men troops). Finally, the .69 calibre Harpers Ferry rifle would be something you would put on the absolute lowest quality troops, meaning the 1pt per 200 men ones, anything higher should use Jarmann M1884s. You might need a calculator, I suggest you get one.


Fortresses - You don't spend points on each element of a fort. Just write "100 point fortress" and you're done.


Naval Transports - Naval transport capacity is abstracted, you don't buy individual ships for that. Each nation automatically starts with 1700 points of shipping capacity. I strongly recommend that you don't buy extra shipping just yet and instead transfer the 800 points into your army and navy. Particularly the army since you share a land border with other nations.
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Post by Stormbringer »

I see we missed the deadline for starting. Is the game dead (again) or are people just waiting for Crossroads to start the main game thread?
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Post by Cincinnatus »

I think Crossroads is waiting on a couple of people to finish their OOB's.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Cincinnatus wrote:I think Crossroads is waiting on a couple of people to finish their OOB's.
I thought so.

I'll repeat what I said before. I think this needs to get underway soon rather than waiting for the slow pokes. They don't seem inclined to finish and it'll just kill the game waiting for them forever. They missed the deadline, let's go already.
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Post by Raesene »

If someone wants to check my math, you're welcome ;-)

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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Are we gonna do this or are we not gonna do this?
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Post by Stormbringer »

Adrian Laguna wrote:Are we gonna do this or are we not gonna do this?
Considering we're two weeks past the starting deadline, it looks like the answer is not. Which is a shame.
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Post by Raesene »

Stormbringer wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:Are we gonna do this or are we not gonna do this?
Considering we're two weeks past the starting deadline, it looks like the answer is not. Which is a shame.
So nobody is wondering where my squadron is going :cry: ?

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Post by Stormbringer »

Raesene wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:Are we gonna do this or are we not gonna do this?
Considering we're two weeks past the starting deadline, it looks like the answer is not. Which is a shame.
So nobody is wondering where my squadron is going :cry: ?
Not really. Not because people don't care but that they're looking at the game as a forlorn hope.
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