Processor Performance Question (Celeron vs Pentium III / IV)

[Kitsune]

I am looking at getting a new (likely used laptop) within the next few months...perhaps with my bribery check from the US Government.....

I have a Pentium III / 850 Mhz laptop (which is OK for most applications) but it only has a 40 Gig HD. As well, the laptop fell and hit a wireless card in the PCMIA slot and took out the slot.

I have been seeing the same basic laptop (May have a 1 Ghz processor instead of an 850 Mhz) I have at Ebay for the 180 to 250 with S/H. That is most likely what I plan to buy and just get a 120 Gig HD and just go with that. My roommate was a mobile broadband card but we are almost never in a situation to need it at the same time so we should be able to share it.

Keeping my eyes open, I was looking at a used laptop at a local pawn shop. They wanted way too much for it being a Celeron 1.2 Ghz machine with only a 40 Gig HD. They wanted $399 for it. As well, the previous owner had loaded the computer down with junk and would likely have to wipe and start over.

What I am curious about is for most practical applications, how do Celerons really compare to Pentium III / IV processors). I know that the Celerons have less processor cache. For example, is a Pentium III 850 as fast as a Celeron 1.2 Ghz for most common roles?

[Resinence]

Celerons also have a slower front side bus speed iirc (the main bus that everything else uses to communicate with the CPU), if your laptop is a Pentium M, then there is probably a ~10% speed difference between the two processors... Hardly worth the price. If it's an actual desktop pentium 3, it's probably faster than the celeron.

[Uraniun235]

As well, the previous owner had loaded the computer down with junk and would likely have to wipe and start over.

The first thing I'd do on acquiring any used laptop would be a wipe and reinstall. But that's just me.

(Well, okay. Maybe the second thing. But you get the idea.)

I would suspect that a Celeron running at 1200MHz would be able to outpace a full P3 at 850MHz; I don't think they're that crippled. I could be wrong.

[The Grim Squeaker]

400$?
Dude, just get an Asus Eepc, for a hundred bucks less or more, it's a 900MHz processor (Sadly) (Although I'm unsure as to how it would perform), but it's tiny, cheap, and everything in it works well and isn't used.
There'll be a newer 530$ version coming out in a few months with Intel's Atom processor that will probably get a speed boost as well.

[Uraniun235]

Hell yeah man 7" screens and tiny keyboards are awesome!

[Ace Pace]

It depends on whether it's the cacheless Celerons or does it have some cache. If it's cacheless, just avoid it.

[DaveJB]

The Celerons in EeePCs are actually underclocked to about ~650MHz, so it won't be any faster than a Pentium III.

Anyways, the trouble when you're dealing with Celerons is that there's so many different types (Pentium 4 based, Pentium M based, Core Duo based, Core 2 based). Judging by the clockspeed I'd say it's either a Pentium III or Pentium M based Celeron. Probably the former in fact, since it would be called a "Celeron M" if it was based on the P-M or anything newer. Therefore it should be a bit faster than the P-III 850, since the >1GHz P-III Celerons weren't actually crippled all that much.

[Sarevok]

400$?
Dude, just get an Asus Eepc, for a hundred bucks less or more, it's a 900MHz processor (Sadly) (Although I'm unsure as to how it would perform), but it's tiny, cheap, and everything in it works well and isn't used.
There'll be a newer 530$ version coming out in a few months with Intel's Atom processor that will probably get a speed boost as well.

The main problem with the Eepc is it's tiny 4-8 GB flash hard disk. While it is fine for many such as me Kitsune mentioned even the 40 GB hard disk of his old machine was not sufficient.

[Netko]

As well, the previous owner had loaded the computer down with junk and would likely have to wipe and start over.

The first thing I'd do on acquiring any used laptop would be a wipe and reinstall. But that's just me.

(Well, okay. Maybe the second thing. But you get the idea.)

I would suspect that a Celeron running at 1200MHz would be able to outpace a full P3 at 850MHz; I don't think they're that crippled. I could be wrong.

Depending on the Celeron in question, you are very likely wrong. On the desktop side, I had the pleasure of working on a 1700mhz PIV-gen Celeron (cacheless) that was simply utter crap - an AMD 900mhz original Athlon (~PIII clock for clock performance) utterly demolished it, even loaded down with the usual crap XP tends to acquire in a year when not administered by someone competent. Today, said Athlon is still in use at my dad's architectural office that I help out with "IT stuff", while the Celeron sits in storage, and will probably be used as a light file/backup server once I find the time to recommission it - its so bad at any realistic user workloads that nobody wants to inflict it even on the interns, especially these days when you can get a decent dual core with gobs of RAM for under 1000$.

[The Grim Squeaker]

400$?
Dude, just get an Asus Eepc, for a hundred bucks less or more, it's a 900MHz processor (Sadly) (Although I'm unsure as to how it would perform), but it's tiny, cheap, and everything in it works well and isn't used.
There'll be a newer 530$ version coming out in a few months with Intel's Atom processor that will probably get a speed boost as well.

The main problem with the Eepc is it's tiny 4-8 GB flash hard disk. While it is fine for many such as me Kitsune mentioned even the 40 GB hard disk of his old machine was not sufficient.

The new model (900) has an 8.9 screen and a 12/20 GB HD. There are also a slew of competing tiny laptops, such as the HP 2133 Mini-Note pc which has a HD option, the things are popping up like crazy. (They also expanded the keyboard slightly, while the HP has a near full size/80%? keyboard)

If he's using it for practical, basic applications (Web browsing, maybe some powerpoint/Word stuff) then that is easily enough storage space. I remember my gaming machine having a 40GB HD, and word files don't take up that much space.
If he does have more intensive needs (Photos, games), then an ancient 1.2GHZ laptop with a 40 gig hard-drive wouldn't be enough anyway.
Kitsune, was I off with my guess as to what your "Typical" uses are? (Also, it's still enough storage for a good few gigs of porn and music in addition to everything else ).


EDIT: Asus website - http://eeepc.asus.com/global/900.htm

[Ace Pace]

400$?
Dude, just get an Asus Eepc, for a hundred bucks less or more, it's a 900MHz processor (Sadly) (Although I'm unsure as to how it would perform), but it's tiny, cheap, and everything in it works well and isn't used.
There'll be a newer 530$ version coming out in a few months with Intel's Atom processor that will probably get a speed boost as well.

Right, because we all want tiny annoying keyboards. It depends on personal preferances, the ASUS EePC might fit his needs, but the screen/keyboard would be a deal breaker for many people.

[Kitsune]

I have a 40 Gig on the one I am using now and have to use Draconian methods to keep down the data.

My desktop keeps all my music videos but I keep a massive library of PDF files and music on my laptop. I have 20+ Gig of music by itself and about 15 Gigs of PDF files. I haver cut both down on my laptop to fit them in but just want expansion space. An 80 Gig would likely work but figure give myself a bit extra and go with a 120 Gig.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Depending on the Celeron in question, you are very likely wrong. On the desktop side, I had the pleasure of working on a 1700mhz PIV-gen Celeron (cacheless) that was simply utter crap - an AMD 900mhz original Athlon (~PIII clock for clock performance) utterly demolished it, even loaded down with the usual crap XP tends to acquire in a year when not administered by someone competent. Today, said Athlon is still in use at my dad's architectural office that I help out with "IT stuff", while the Celeron sits in storage, and will probably be used as a light file/backup server once I find the time to recommission it - its so bad at any realistic user workloads that nobody wants to inflict it even on the interns, especially these days when you can get a decent dual core with gobs of RAM for under 1000$.

P4 based Celerons didn't range as low as 1200 MHz, so it's almost certainly P3 or P-M based, making it a lot faster than the 1.7 GHz Celeron you're talking about.

[Sarevok]

Right, because we all want tiny annoying keyboards. It depends on personal preferances, the ASUS EePC might fit his needs, but the screen/keyboard would be a deal breaker for many people.

Ace raises a good point. The EePC looks nice in publicity photos but when you actually hold one in your hands it is fucking tiny. It feels clumsy like a PDA. It is a great machine no doubt combining portability of smartphones and PDAs with power of a real computer. But the tiny keyboard and screen makes it an unlikely replacement for a full sized laptop.

[fusion]

Or if you want to buy online you can get this comp: AVERATEC 7155-EA1 for $399 at consumer depot.

[Kitsune]

Anyone know how large the Caches are for the Pentium 4M?

[Ace Pace]

Pentium M(Banias) has 1MB cache, Dothan has 2MB.

[phongn]

Anyone know how large the Caches are for the Pentium 4M?

The Mobile Pentium 4 and Mobile Pentium 4-M have 512KB of L2 cache and 8KB of L1 data cache.

[Kitsune]

I have been looking at a variety of used Dell C640 Laptops (I currently have a Dell C600 but its PCMIA slots are dead) and many seem to have Pentium 4 Mobile processors

Trying to make sure that the processor would not be too badly stripped as far as performance.

[phongn]

Trying to make sure that the processor would not be too badly stripped as far as performance.

The Mobile Pentium 4 runs very hot, battery life is typically poor and the biggest issue with performance on laptops tend to be the slow hard drives.

[Kitsune]

Is this running very hot something I should be concerned about specifically?

[phongn]

Is this running very hot something I should be concerned about specifically?

It is if you want to put it on your lap or use it on a surface that could block the vents. The processor may also thermally throttle itself it it gets to hot, or go into emergency shutdown.

[Kitsune]

I have a llaptop "pad" I use with my present laptop which should prevent the problem with either the vents being covered up or it being too warm to be on my lap...the 850 can get pretty warm as well