Ace Combat 4's "Strategy"

[Starglider]

Superbombers in the later missions? I don't recall any super aircraft in AC04 at all. The closest ones were the Tu-160 Blackjacks.

There's a B-70 in 'Breaking Arrows', which is as close as reality got to a superbomber. It's flying pretty high and fast, but not realistically so, otherwise you wouldn't have a hope of intercepting it.

[Sephirius]

Superbombers in the later missions? I don't recall any super aircraft in AC04 at all. The closest ones were the Tu-160 Blackjacks.

That's what I was referring to. IIRC there's the Blackjacks in Shattered Skies (as well as an SR-71!) in Shattered Skies, and in Emancipation there's a Squadron of B2 Spirits, which I would refer to as superbombers due primarily to the cost of purchase, maintenance and capabilities compared to a BUFF or a Bear.

[CaptHawkeye]

Sephirius has the same idea I had about the Blackjacks. We only see them once, late game, and they're comparatively advanced aircraft to Bears. Their were plenty of important operations early in the game that called for their use but we never saw them. Sky Eye was rather surprised to see them in Emancipation which points to me that encounters with them were rare or might not have even occurred prior. (His data on them being gathered from spies in that case.) This leads to me to believe they were limited production models in AltEarth. By the time of emancipation Erusea probably lacked the necessary time and resources to make them work as well as they'd hoped. So they were rushed to the front in small numbers, with minimal escort, and zero defensive systems other than their apparently insufficient speed.

I bet AltEarth's teenage loser Erusea wankers always claim that "Erusea would have won if they had more Blackjacks and super planez..."

[Sephirius]

Sephirius has the same idea I had about the Blackjacks. We only see them once, late game, and they're comparatively advanced aircraft to Bears. Their were plenty of important operations early in the game that called for their use but we never saw them. Sky Eye was rather surprised to see them in Emancipation which points to me that encounters with them were rare or might not have even occurred prior. (His data on them being gathered from spies in that case.) This leads to me to believe they were limited production models in AltEarth. By the time of emancipation Erusea probably lacked the necessary time and resources to make them work as well as they'd hoped. So they were rushed to the front in small numbers, with minimal escort, and zero defensive systems other than their apparently insufficient speed.

It's my view that the Blackjacks were a limited production run by Grunder Industries, and only produced during the Belkan War (cause we see more there than any other AC).

I bet AltEarth's teenage loser Erusea wankers always claim that "Erusea would have won if they had more Blackjacks and super planez..."

Well, they definitely picked the best frontline fighter

(Fuck yeah, Terminators!
inb4 F22 fanboys)

[Starglider]

It's my view that the Blackjacks were a limited production run by Grunder Industries, and only produced during the Belkan War (cause we see more there than any other AC).

There were quite a lot of Yuktobanian Blackjacks involved in the strike on Sand Island (the 'First Flight' mission from AC5).

[Edward Yee]

I bet AltEarth's teenage loser Erusea wankers always claim that "Erusea would have won if they had more Blackjacks and super planez..."

I think they were looking at the wrong continent... sounds like something the Belkan-wankers (in universe) would have said.

[Sephirius]

It's my view that the Blackjacks were a limited production run by Grunder Industries, and only produced during the Belkan War (cause we see more there than any other AC).

There were quite a lot of Yuktobanian Blackjacks involved in the strike on Sand Island (the 'First Flight' mission from AC5).

I think those were B1-B's.

[Starglider]

I think those were B1-B's.

Sorry, you are correct. I forgot that Yuktobania inexplicably has a fair number of US aircraft despite being mostly a USSR-analogue. They even have some Vulcans!

[Adrian Laguna]

I forgot that Yuktobania inexplicably has a fair number of US aircraft despite being mostly a USSR-analogue. They even have some Vulcans!

In the Ace Combat verse it seems that the industries that manufacture combat aircraft are not very big on national loyalty. Apparently they sell to everyone, so everybody has access to pretty much the same kinds of aircraft as everyone else, though some nations do favour certain things over others. Interestingly, stealth aircraft have been partly inverted: Both the F-117 and B-2 bombers are used by more Eastern nations, with Yuktobania having both and Erusia the second, but I don't recall seeing either Osea or the ISAF field either. Meanwhile, stealth fighters are mixed: I don't think Erusia had any, while ISAF definitely had F-22s. For the other war, the Yuktobanians have F-35s and Su-47s (which are stealth in the AC 'verse), while Osea has F-22s.

[Edward Yee]

If you count Zero (at Avalon) and 6 (in the last three missions), you also have antagonist F-22s flying alongside aggressor Sukhois. I'm not sure whether the combat aircraft manufacturers are even supposed to have any particular national loyalty, considering the extent of plane types' proliferation even in the "good" games, and there's no guarantee that there's, say, a Mikoyan-i-Gurevich Design Bureau, Sukhoi, Lockheed Martin, that exclusively produces the plane designs associated with them out-of-universe.

P.S. One of the first lessons of Over G Fighters: Hitting afterburners as in AC to missile dodge is a bad idea.

[Starglider]

Interestingly, stealth aircraft have been partly inverted: Both the F-117 and B-2 bombers are used by more Eastern nations, with Yuktobania having both and Erusia the second, but I don't recall seeing either Osea or the ISAF field either.

As a fighter pilot, you likely wouldn't see them anyway; sending fighters to escort stealth bombers / strike aircraft would be kind of pointless.

[Shroom Man 777]

If I recall correctly, in Ace Combat Zero when you're firebombing that city Dresden?, the Belkan stealth fighters that are sicked on you are F-35s.

Osea also has YF-23s in Wizard squadron, coupled with F-16XLs.

The Yukes also have Nimrod maritime bomber aircraft, which is an old British workhorse. Which is kind of weird.

[Edward Yee]

If I recall correctly, in Ace Combat Zero when you're firebombing that city Dresden?, the Belkan stealth fighters that are sicked on you are F-35s.

Osea also has YF-23s in Wizard squadron, coupled with F-16XLs.

The Yukes also have Nimrod maritime bomber aircraft, which is an old British workhorse. Which is kind of weird.

That's all accurate, except the city is Hoffnung. Incidentally, the only F-35 variant shown in Ace Combat is the F-35C, which leaves one to wonder what happened to the -A and -B variants.

[Sephirius]

If I recall correctly, in Ace Combat Zero when you're firebombing that city Dresden?, the Belkan stealth fighters that are sicked on you are F-35s.

Osea also has YF-23s in Wizard squadron, coupled with F-16XLs.

The Yukes also have Nimrod maritime bomber aircraft, which is an old British workhorse. Which is kind of weird.

That's all accurate, except the city is Hoffnung. Incidentally, the only F-35 variant shown in Ace Combat is the F-35C, which leaves one to wonder what happened to the -A and -B variants.

Maybe not justified as cost effective and dropped?
(much like what may happen in real life if that trainwreck continues)

[Vendetta]

Incidentally, the only F-35 variant shown in Ace Combat is the F-35C, which leaves one to wonder what happened to the -A and -B variants.

It rounds out the carrier jets, there'd be little to no difference between the A and the C variants in the game, and the engine can't handle player controlled STOVL aircraft (AI VTOL craft have always had wonky physics in AC games)

[Edward Yee]

Maybe not justified as cost effective and dropped?
(much like what may happen in real life if that trainwreck continues

Why not just deem it the F-35 then, unless somehow the -A and -B designations were needed for placeholders' sake. In both of the F-35C's appearances, the Belkan and Circum-Pacific Wars, the F-35C's STOVL could just have been simulated by a shorter takeoff distance than the other planes, although I don't know how the vertical landing would have been simulated, carrier or not.

What've the VTOL craft been like? I don't recall seeing them take off in the AC games.

[CaptHawkeye]

I've cooked up an idea for a new Strategy page. It'll be a fanfiction of sorts setup in Star Wars and will simulate a large naval war between the Empire and the Mon Calamari. I'm disregarding the EU for the sake of it and using mostly the movies to back it up. It'll be a fanfiction told in the style of this Ace Combat Strategy page.

Some initial background assumptions are...

A. The Rebellion's Ships and many of its commanders are predominantly Mon Calamari. Thus the Calamari still have an autonomous world the Empire does not control or they would not have any shipyards. This makes sense in context with the Rebel Alliance. No Insurgent ever had a chance at success without support from much stronger nations. The Rebels would not have a fleet like the Rebellion without some kind of international support. Where would they hide their shipyards and drydocks?

B. Obviously the Empire would know the ships are Calamari and would seek to conquer their planet. As a single world Mon Calamari would never stand a chance. So this has led me to believe that the Calamari are a vast multi-system nation like the Galactic Empire. And that they've been fighting a largely successful defensive war against the Empire. Though they are slowly losing to the Empire's vast industrial superiority.

C. The Mon Calamari's rivalry with the Empire is comparable and will be based on Germany's rivalry with Britain during World War 1. The Mon Calamari have largely succeeded in maintaining their space through the concept of "Fleet in Being." While on the ground, their most important strategic worlds were heavily fortified during the Clone Wars and are thus well prepared for extended sieges.

D. The Mon Calamari, due to their inferior industrial base, cannot stomach the losses the Empire can. So they are unable to carry the war to the Empire. This is where the Rebellion comes into play. The Calamari fund and support the fanatically devoted, if under equipped, Rebellion without needing to risk their own forces. Even if the Rebellion is very small, it will still force the Empire to spread units thin and withdraw supplies and personel from the Calamari home front.

F. The most important speculation, the Empire and the Mon Calamari operate vast fleets of dreadnoughts. I brought this idea up with Stark in chat weeks ago.

I think the Empire has tons of Executor sized vessels. Executor is a Star Dreadnought. Not a one of kind class of super ship the EU likes to masturbate too. It's a battleship, and it has many hundreds of sisters. What's my evidence for this speculation? Two words: Death Star.

If the Empire can build the Death Star, and not one, but TWO, then OBVIOUSLY it can build many hundreds of Executor sized dreadnoughts. Easily. Why don't we see them? Because all we see in the movies is the Empire hunting the REBELLION.

Think about it, is the Empire going to waste loads of dreadnoughts hunting for a bunch of backwater terrorists? My belief is they're all on the Calamari front serving in the Empire's "Grand Fleet" to oppose the equally well armed if somewhat fragile Mon Calamari "Combined Fleet." The Emperor only committed Executor to the search for the Rebellion AFTER the Death Star was destroyed. The Death Star itself was destined to serve on the Calamari front. Freshly commissioned, Tarkin wished to use it to police the home front single handedly so the Empire could again devote forces to the Calamari.

I think Star "Destroyer" is a literal term, and that ISD's are indeed destroyers. Compare their size to Executor, then compare a typical DD's size to say, Iowa. ISD's are the most frequently seen vessels in the movies usually performing high speed pursuit and police work. Ideal jobs for destroyers.

I will expand on all of these points in a few weeks when I start a topic. Until then i've got finals to study for.

I'm hoping to work with fractalsponge do discuss ideas as to how Imperial and Calamari dreadnoughts would look like and function. His 3D models have been excellent thus far and are very close to what i'd envision Imperial Dreadnoughts look like.

[CaptHawkeye]

Maybe not justified as cost effective and dropped?
(much like what may happen in real life if that trainwreck continues)

Perhaps they were simply extended prototype models and true production on the line was delayed until the C model. Making the A and B largely negligent in the F-35's life span.

[Sephirius]

Maybe not justified as cost effective and dropped?
(much like what may happen in real life if that trainwreck continues)

Perhaps they were simply extended prototype models and true production on the line was delayed until the C model. Making the A and B largely negligent in the F-35's life span.

Also quite possible. In response to your other post, I'm thinking about starting a Strategy of AC5 post much like this one.