Getting a game made

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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Sarevok wrote:I got a question for the IT professionals on the board. I am part a small company that makes j2me and symbian applications for smartphones. But my real passion is in video games. This year an opportunity has presented itself to put together a solid team of programmers, modellers and musicians to create something good. The problem is I am in Bangladesh. The work we get here through outsourcing is very different from game development. The overseas companies at US or Europe don't seem to consider outsourcing game development work here yet. Even though there are tons of good technical people here like in India. We had games made by eastern european companies that made tons of money. No such precedent exist yet for games developed in here. So if I approach a publisher how should I convince them it is a good idea to publish a game developed in Bangladesh ?
Not an IT professional, but as a video gamer I can tell you that games which are made in non-English-speaking locales tend to suck if they're made for a locale that speaks a different language than their own. Some of them are atrocious, unapologetic, unholy shitbombs like a game that came out a while back called Restricted Area. I'd say it was eminently forgettable, except it was so bad it wasn't. I only played it once, for two hours, then uninstalled it and hid the box, and the memories of that shitbomb still haunt me. In addition to being an unholy union of Diablo II and Shadowrun, only sucking ten times worse than that sounds (seriously, a cyber-brain is a field-installable piece of equipment?!,) the voice acting was fucking godawful and the text made it pretty clear they settled for a babelfish translation.

Then there's ones that are... Not so bad, like one called Exodus from the Earth. They actually hired decent, native English speaking voice actors and had the script checked over by someone who spoke the language fluently and could erase about 99.9% of the ridiculousness that occurs when you run something in one language through a software translator. It was still obvious in text descriptions of items, but it made for a quirky, kind of amusing game with decent gameplay and a fairly gripping (if tragic) story. But that is by far the exception, not the rule; mostly they're so bad you lament spending some money on them and forget them in a month's time. Some of them are good enough you're glad you own them because you might at some point want to play them again, and some... Well, some will leave you scarred. If you have a real passion for video games and want to produce them for the English-speaking market as opposed to the market you live in, I'd advise you to move to North America or the UK or Australia, in that order of desirability.

If, on the other hand, you're content to be the kind of person who works on an Uwe Boll film and freely admits to anyone who asks that the only way you sleep at night is the fact that you have no intention whatsoever of ever viewing the film you helped to make, then go ahead and try to get a video game outsourcing thing going on. You might manage to make some bucks before the latest in the line of evil video game developers picks up to the fact that these games are not selling and pull the plug.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...

Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Starglider »

Covenant wrote:As an aside: How many people in game development do we have around here?
Once upon a time I was the technical director of an MMORPG start-up. Kind of fun but ridiculously stressful. Haven't been in the game industry since late 2003; I've looked at the idea of making licensable game AI libraries a few times, but it's never made commercial sense for my company.
Sarevok wrote:The overseas companies at US or Europe don't seem to consider outsourcing game development work here yet.
Frankly, that's a good thing. First world countries have already shipped enough of their technology jobs and infrastructure overseas, it would be nice if we could keep a few sectors here.
So if I approach a publisher how should I convince them it is a good idea to publish a game developed in Bangladesh?
Why do you need a publisher? What is the target platform and sales figures?
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ShadowDragon8685
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Starglider wrote:Once upon a time I was the technical director of an MMORPG start-up. Kind of fun but ridiculously stressful. Haven't been in the game industry since late 2003; I've looked at the idea of making licensable game AI libraries a few times, but it's never made commercial sense for my company.
Was that Dawn, by any chance?
Sarevok wrote:The overseas companies at US or Europe don't seem to consider outsourcing game development work here yet.
Frankly, that's a good thing. First world countries have already shipped enough of their technology jobs and infrastructure overseas, it would be nice if we could keep a few sectors here.
Seconded. Fortunately there is a barrier to such outsourcing: while people may be willing to tolerate it for their ISP's technical support and it's hard or impossible to tell where a given piece of functional software was programmed, entertainment made in one location but aimed at another tends to be poorly received by the audience; as I mentioned above, games made in non-English-speaking countries but aimed at the US tend to suck hardcore; even if it's sold on a box in a shelf doesn't mean it's going to be any good.
Why do you need a publisher? What is the target platform and sales figures?
I think the more important question is what is the target market. If he wants to produce games in Bangladesh, with a Bangladeshi development team, for the inhabitants of Bangladesh, he might have a shot. If he wants to produce games in Bangladesh for, with a Bangladeshi development team for, say, North America, well... I'd wish him well, but I might accidentally wind up buying it some day down the road.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...

Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

Covenant wrote:As an aside: How many people in game development do we have around here? As part of a small studio (three guys) I'd like to do some business chatter at some point.
I'm not exactly in game development, per se. Though, I am a recent (09) college grad with a BS in CompSci, who focused on the game development side of things and whose dream is getting into the industry. Currently, I've been fooling around with XNA trying to work up the nerve to put together a 2D game to make some income, seeing as I can't find any entry level positions in my area as of yet. My main stumbling block has been assets, my artwork sucks, and I just know anything I release will probably end up looking like utter shit.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Bradbury »

Covenant wrote:As an aside: How many people in game development do we have around here? As part of a small studio (three guys) I'd like to do some business chatter at some point.
I'm a full-time game designer. I've worked on some pretty popular games, but I don't like to post the specifics where people can google it.
Sarevok wrote: I am part a small company that makes j2me and symbian applications for smartphones. But my real passion is in video games. This year an opportunity has presented itself to put together a solid team of programmers, modellers and musicians to create something good. The problem is I am in Bangladesh.
I'm guessing, considering what the team has done in the past, that you're looking at mobile game development. I don't know much about it, but I'd be surprised if there weren't some mobile games already being made in India at the very least.

I don't think the publisher model is as strict with mobile development either - i.e., mobile games are cheaper to make thus publishers take more risks. The best advice I could give you is to make a prototype game to show a publisher that you guys have the skills they need to make a game, and then offer to build what they need, usually a licensed game (like Barbie Horse Princess). It does require a bunch of networking, so if you're serious then you should join the IGDA and post on their forums and sign up for the special interest group mailing lists - they have one for mobile game dev.

And actually, a lot of larger companies start out this way unless the company's founded by 'industry veterans'. They make mobile or web games that are cheap and based on licensed properties (like movies and books, just not the best movies and books). That usually guarantees at least some sort of return in investment due to name recognition. If you're lucky enough to make a profit beyond what the publisher takes, then you can start funding your own IPs, but most companies never get enough profit to do that.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by GuppyShark »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:\Not an IT professional, but as a video gamer I can tell you that games which are made in non-English-speaking locales tend to suck if they're made for a locale that speaks a different language than their own. Some of them are atrocious, unapologetic, unholy shitbombs like a game that came out a while back called Restricted Area. I'd say it was eminently forgettable, except it was so bad it wasn't. I only played it once, for two hours, then uninstalled it and hid the box, and the memories of that shitbomb still haunt me. In addition to being an unholy union of Diablo II and Shadowrun, only sucking ten times worse than that sounds (seriously, a cyber-brain is a field-installable piece of equipment?!,) the voice acting was fucking godawful and the text made it pretty clear they settled for a babelfish translation.

Well, some will leave you scarred. If you have a real passion for video games and want to produce them for the English-speaking market as opposed to the market you live in, I'd advise you to move to North America or the UK or Australia, in that order of desirability.

If, on the other hand, you're content to be the kind of person who works on an Uwe Boll film and freely admits to anyone who asks that the only way you sleep at night is the fact that you have no intention whatsoever of ever viewing the film you helped to make, then go ahead and try to get a video game outsourcing thing going on. You might manage to make some bucks before the latest in the line of evil video game developers picks up to the fact that these games are not selling and pull the plug.
That's right, if you want to make video games that will be popular in America, you need to belong to an American company like Sega or Sony or Nintendo! Those foreigners just don't understand what makes a game good!

:banghead:
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Coalition »

Sarevok wrote:I got a question for the IT professionals on the board. I am part a small company that makes j2me and symbian applications for smartphones. But my real passion is in video games. This year an opportunity has presented itself to put together a solid team of programmers, modellers and musicians to create something good. The problem is I am in Bangladesh. The work we get here through outsourcing is very different from game development. The overseas companies at US or Europe don't seem to consider outsourcing game development work here yet. Even though there are tons of good technical people here like in India. We had games made by eastern european companies that made tons of money. No such precedent exist yet for games developed in here. So if I approach a publisher how should I convince them it is a good idea to publish a game developed in Bangladesh?
If you point out that relative costs for the programmers are lower, meaning it would be much cheaper to develop a sequel for the same amount of money, that could work. The other stunt is getting a free Flash game editor, and letting the Bangladesh people have fun with it, seeing what they produce, and comparing it to what exists currently.

The best way to present the idea is to outsource part of the game development (i.e. art, a few sounds, etc) to a few companies in Bangladesh. Show how the standard of living in Bangladesh, combined with the exchange rate, allow for that part of the game to be made cheaper. There might be a higher failure rate for items produced (due to translation issues or similar), but the final cost was lower than for an American team (I.e. a tripled failure rate, but the teams cost 1/4 of an American team means it only cost 3/4 what was budgeted). Point out that their success rate will increase as they understand what is wanted faster. You get one foot in the door at a time, slowly showing that they can develop a similar quality game, for cheaper, until the whole game is being developed.

The other stunt is writing a genetic algorithm program, and using that to design the graphics. You have a text description of the critter, and a 5x9 grid of randomly generated pictures. You select a few pictures that do not resemble what you want, the algorithm drops that code, and makes a random design based on the remainders (plus a randomly changed image). You repeat that over and over, until it looks like what you want. Maybe a text box to tell the program how many you want to click on before it reshuffles the code? This will take a while, so be ready to click on a lot of pictures that you don't like.

I'll bet American programmers don't like me now.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

GuppyShark wrote:That's right, if you want to make video games that will be popular in America, you need to belong to an American company like Sega or Sony or Nintendo! Those foreigners just don't understand what makes a game good! :banghead:
You do realize that Nintendo has more than sufficient money and interest in making it's games good outside of it's native land? It's also not an outsourcing project; outsourcing involves giving a task to people who are being paid much less than you would otherwise pay them; Nintendo makes good stuff for their home market, and they hire translation teams to make them good elsewhere. What he was suggesting sounded more like the projects I mentioned than Nintendo.

Also, I said "tend to suck", not "invariably will." Nintendo is also a console developer, not a PC game maker.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...

Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
JointStrikeFighter
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by JointStrikeFighter »

THe word you are looking for is "multi-domestic"
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by adam_grif »

Also, I said "tend to suck", not "invariably will." Nintendo is also a console developer, not a PC game maker.
Doesn't really matter. Factor 5 made the highly successful (and awesome, until 3) Rogue Squadron games. Take a guess where they operate out of. Guerrilla Games is Dutch. Tetris was made in... well you know. Crytek? UBISOFT?!

Although it might be true that game development is concentrated in Japan and English speaking countries, and thus that's where most of the good games come from at the moment, it's not like great games coming from elsewhere is unknown. It's just that the industries aren't as well developed. There's no reason that if they were developed, they would automatically be inferior to domestically produced games or sell poorly.
Stark wrote:It'd be funny if eastern european developers weren't so awesome.
Get out of here Stalker. Get out of here Stalker.
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Stark »

Look it's not MY fault those guys snorted all of THQ's money and never finished their game.

Metro, Space Rangers, the King's Bounty re-release, hell, even shit like Guild 1400 and ROTK. If only foreign countries produced more soulless re-releases of KotoR and Starcraft? :lol:
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by adam_grif »

Hey, you forgot to mention Big Rigs!
Look it's not MY fault those guys snorted all of THQ's money and never finished their game.
On the contrary, without so many bugs and unpolished elements, STALKER wouldn't be nearly as... charming as it is.
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Stark
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Stark »

I hear Call of Pripyat is 80% of what they wanted for STALKER, but y'know four years later I just don't give a shit. :lol:
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by Solauren »

One way to do it would be to see if you can liscence an existing game engine you like (i.e you mentioned Half-Life), find a much of moders, and pay them to mod Half-Life into the new game you want.

Another way is to pick a platform, find a good set of development tools for it, and then find some College/High School students to help you build it.

Fortunately, for X-Box development, the tools are largely free. (Visual Studio Express, XNA Development Plug-in)
You'd just have to snoop around.

But, before you do, get your game down on paper first, so they know what they are getting into, and what you want.
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Re: Getting a game made

Post by salm »

The question is how complex and long is the game going to be. With 50K you could make something like a small, short game similar to the games which are made for advertisment purposes. A small driving simulation for a car company for example. It would be really, really short though and depending on the concept you´d might simply have to sacrifice some ideas if they prove to complicated to implement in the short time frame of development.
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