Dark Souls: Prepare to Die?

[Dread Not]

So being a huge fan of Demon's Souls, I attended my first midnight launch last night and picked up Dark Souls. Has anyone else picked this up?

If so I think it might be a good idea to use this thread to post advice, because this game is ridiculously deep and nuanced and explains very little of itself to you.

I'm enjoying myself for the most part. Some of the things they've changed are rather peculiar. I haven't yet run into the crushing, disheartening difficulty so many critics reported. It's challenging of course, but I've been steadily making progress without too much sweat.

Personally I'm finding some of the gameplay elements like humanity and covenants confusing. I'm hoping I don't inadvertently fuck myself over.

[Stark]

I've heard that while they bang on about how it's 'HARDER THAN DEMON SOULS WOOO' it actually isn't. So long as its unforgiving but not cheap, I think it'll be awesome.

As far as I can tell, the Covenants are arranged such through the game that you might as well join the first one and then change later.

[Shinova]

I pre-ordered through Newegg, and got screwed. Turns out we were all supposed to get collector's but they got regular instead. So all our pre-orders were voided and we get a $20 coupon towards the regular version. Which happens to be out-of-stock at the moment. OTL FU Newegg.

[Dread Not]

I've heard that while they bang on about how it's 'HARDER THAN DEMON SOULS WOOO' it actually isn't. So long as its unforgiving but not cheap, I think it'll be awesome.

Yeah, it largely seems to be hyperbole. I finally got to the twin gargoyles boss fight that was the first real challenge that took me more than a couple of attempts.

As far as I can tell, the Covenants are arranged such through the game that you might as well join the first one and then change later.

There are definitely consequences to breaking covenants though there's much speculation as to what they consist of. I've read something along the lines that you will be black-listed if you break a covenant, and other players within that covenant will invade your realm. After killing the gargoyles and ringing the bell in the tower I found an NPC that seems to heavily tie into the covenant sytem. There's a "break covenant" menu option when you talk to him. I believe if you pay him souls to break a covenant you won't have to face the consequences. I didn't spend much time investigating though since I feel I have better things to be spending my souls on at this point.

The biggest WTF with the game for me so far has been with the leveling system. When you select which stats you want to level up, the menu will tell you how many souls it will cost. The problem is that it will only tell you how many souls are required if you already have the required number of souls. This means that you have no way of knowing how many more souls you still need. This wasn't a problem in Demon's Souls so it seems to be a massive oversight. I've done a bit of googling to see if I'm missing something but I've turned up nothing.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Yeah, it's still fairly difficult. Though, most of the added difficulty seems to come from the changes to the way mobs attack. They tend to have a combo they can pull off that starts with a normal single swing, which can catch you off guard if you're expecting it to stop at 1 or 2 swings.

Parrying feels a lot more limited as well.

Two bosses have given me some issues. Capras for the small area it's fought in, and Qaeleeg(?) for it's ability to vomit up big piles of lava.

On the bright side, there's a way to sell excess gear now. It available after you ring both bells.

[Dread Not]

Yeah, it's still fairly difficult. Though, most of the added difficulty seems to come from the changes to the way mobs attack. They tend to have a combo they can pull off that starts with a normal single swing, which can catch you off guard if you're expecting it to stop at 1 or 2 swings.

I was having problems with mobs as well until I discovered the poise stat. I got cornered at one point by some of those poisonous rats. Despite them being fairly weak enemies, their combined attacks were so relentless that I wasn't able to get my guard up before they killed me. Raising your poise stat with heavier armor will cause you to be less easily staggered, as will the Wolf's Ring if you want to wear lighter armor.

Personally I like that enemies are less predictable. Some of the stronger enemies are crafty little bastards, managing to dodge your swings and pull off some quick jabs quite effectively.[/quote]

Parrying feels a lot more limited as well.

I don't parry very often but I feel it's actually more generous than before. The added difficulty comes more from the wider variety of enemy attacks, making it harder to time correctly.

On the bright side, there's a way to sell excess gear now. It available after you ring both bells.

Seriously? I haven't gotten that far. I feel like a bit of a moron now for ditching all that loot that was cluttering up my inventory. I miss Stockpile Thomas.

Out of curiosity what have been your impressions of the online? I've read tons of people's complaints about difficulties playing with friends and the like. Personally I haven't been able to get any co-op working, and the messages are more useless than ever. Way too many idiots posting "I did it!" and "Good luck!" Do you know what the effects of having your messages voted up or down are this time around?

[Stark]

I think parry is pretty effective; I'm one-hitting most badguys. I like that the enemies can change their timing if you're parrying blocking or whatever. I'm not finding the game very difficult so far.

Maybe I'm going the wrong way, but it seems like there's a lot of grinding to be effective. The only thing I don't like about the combat is the really long recoil interrupts from guys more powerful than you (not helped by my weak-ass dude).

And man, can we have a 360 control setup? We have two distinct types of shoulders, unlike PS3, so the layout is kind of daft.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

I spent a while trying to get used to the parry timing, but it always feels a little off from where it was last time. But, timing's not my strong suit.

Two very useful things:

Kicking is somewhat wonky, being a flick of the Left stick and R1, but it's pretty useful for knocking those spear/shield zombies out of their guard. Though, it's screwed me over a couple of times. Not fatally yet... unlike the back hop...

If you're in body form, you can summon an NPC before most bosses. They're on the stupid side, but they can tank an equally stupid amount of damage. The one I did took an AoE that would have killed me if I wasn't guarding, and barely lost a 1/16th. Some of them may need to be killed as Black Phantoms first, which only show up in body form.


As for online, it's pretty much like Demon's Souls. You can only be invaded by PVPers in Body form, can only summon support in Body form, and can only be summoned in spirit/hollow form. And it's all fairly random and hands off as to who will get who. I do believe there's a Soul Level range though, at the least for PVP.

[Stark]

I've had no luck actually getting guys to enter my game; triggering their summon signs always fails.

While the game isn't hard, there a some pret dodgy decisions made. Most bosses are only dangerous because of the area they're in; open area bosses like the belltower guys are trivial. After ringing the first bell I'm a bit at a loss where to go (besides the Capra demon) and the guy I released from prison is kinda just sitting ere saying he'll leave eventually. Sherry annoyed a dragon into giving me a ridiculous sword that one-hits pretty much all non-bosses, which makes the bosses even more annoying by contrast.

Still, eight hours on one character and im still having fun.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

If you want it, a general walk-through of the game. Starting from the beginning, going to the second bell.
Spoiler

From Firelink shrine, head up toward the bridge in the distance. Work your way through the town.
- There will be a building early on with two Spear/Shield Hollows on it. The first merchant of the game is beneath them.
-The stairs near the Firelink Bonfire lead down to an elevator. Taking this down, you will be able to access a blacksmith in New Londo. He is down a fairly hidden staircase in the cliffside. He also sells a catalyst and some basic spells.

After the Taurus demon, you need to sprint across the bridge. (May or may not work with the dragon not on the opposite side.) Dodging to either side in the middle will work, but you need the stairs on the right hand side.
-There's a shortcut in the lefthand door underneath the bridge. Interact with the ladder to drop it to the last bonfire.
-Underneath the bridge, you can shoot the dragon's tail to receive a sword. It's very nice for the early game, but upgraded weapons that scale can reach higher.

Continuing past the boar, you path will split somewhat. The left-hand lead to the front of the church, and lets you open the portcullis, but a hollow will close it when they respawn... Hanging right leads you to a small area with two sword hollows and a crossbow. From here, the path into the woods leads to a blacksmith.
-He sells the basic upgrade stone [Titanite Shard (800)] for taking your gear up to +5. He will also be able to make Divine weapons, (which keep the skeletons in the catacombs from raising back up.) and Raw weapons.

Heading inside the church, there will be a large knight with a mace. He can be hard, as his moves track fairly well, but he doesn't guard much so should be able to be poked to death. Behind him is a Firekeeper Soul, which allows you to upgrade your Estus Flask back in firelink.
-The gold gate is an elevator back to Firelink, it opens up once you take it down.
-Upstairs, you can find a cell holding Luctric. He'll escape eitherway, but can be interacted with back in firelink for a while if you free him. He has a quest that resolves in Anor Londo, right before it's boss.

After the Gargoyles, and the ringing of the bell, you should have a new key. It unlocks the door all the way back under between the Taurus demon and the Dragon-bridge. This leads up to the Capras Demon. Who isn't hard, but the fight tends to be decided in the first 10 seconds because of the two dogs he has. Most advise hauling ass for the stairs, this worked for me.
-Immediately before the fog-gate is a staircase that goes down. There's a staircase up that leads back to the aqueduct, and opens a merchant. As well as a locked door that opens with the key from Capras.
-At the other end of this area is a door that opens to the key sold by the first merchant, opening it releases the first Magic Teacher. As well as having a body-in-a-pot with his gear.

After capras, you head into the depths. There's a shortcut hidden behind some boxes that drops you onto a ledge with a spider shield (Blocks Poison buildup!) and allows you to snipe a mini-boss to death without retaliation. You should go through the pit filled with water first though, as this allows you to free the Pyromancy teacher. ROLL into his pot, else wise you run the risk of damaging him, and causing him to go hostile.

After the miniboss, explore the tunnels to kill a wizard, -then- go down the waterfall behind the miniboss. If you don't kill the wizard, he apparently makes the next boss much harder. Be careful of the weird lizards down here. They cause curse, which will kill you then halve your max HP indefinitely, until healed. It also apparently stacks.
- Once you've reached the large room opposite the waterfall, there's a somewhat hidden stairway that opens a shortcut.
- There's also a merchant there, he mainly sells Crystal weapons, which have a high damage, but low durability, and cannot be repaired.
-The door behind him leads to Blight-town. Your next destination, and thoroughly painful area.

You will shortly reach the Gaping Dragon. You can cut off it's tail to receive a weapon. (It has a huge strength requirement though. 2handing seems to require about 2/3rd of the listed amount.) You should never stay infront of it, as it has a very fatal grapple. It also has a huge AoE, never got hit by it, but it covers a very large area and moves slowly.
Other than that, it's cake. I actually beat it on my first try. (3 for Taurus, 5 for Capras. Taurus knocked me off the tower twice, Capras is just cheap.)

Blighttown, first half is a long serious of rickety, cobbled togather scaffolding. The second half is a swamp that causes poison. The boss, and second bell, is on the island that is covered in knarled roots. There is a semi-hidden bonfire in the swamp. It is along the right-hand wall, just before some wooden "elevators".

Of note: There is a way back to the Asylum. Once you have the Undead Parish <-> Firelink Shrine elevator, you should notice an area you could walk out onto. Do so, and work your way up. There is an item on the roof you should be able to reach, it is a key to the other gate on the 2nd floor of the asylum. This lets you get a ring that allows you to move at full speed in all conditions. There is... a surprise... where you fought the Asylum Demon though.

[Dread Not]

I've had no luck actually getting guys to enter my game; triggering their summon signs always fails.

I finally got one to work earlier today. It got kind of ridiculous when I discovered my controller's battery was much lower than I thought it was. I had to scramble to plug it in while still fighting the boss with my companion. I spent quite a lot of time in human form but have yet to be invaded though.

While the game isn't hard, there a some pret dodgy decisions made. Most bosses are only dangerous because of the area they're in; open area bosses like the belltower guys are trivial.

Funny. The belltower gargoyles were one of the more troublesome bosses for me. I beat the tutorial boss, the Taurus demon, the Capra demon the Moonlight Butterfly, and the Gaping Dragon on my first attempt. I got stomped by the Wolf Sif and the new and improved asylum demon.

After ringing the first bell I'm a bit at a loss where to go (besides the Capra demon) and the guy I released from prison is kinda just sitting ere saying he'll leave eventually.

The Depths is the natural path I believe, but there's still the two other paths from Firelink shrine, plus all the branching paths of Darkroot Forest. I'm gradually working my way through both the Depths and Darkroot. There's an unlockable door a short ways into Darkroot Garden. I find the human enemy hunters in there to be a quick easy source for souls.

That dude you freed is Lautrec. He'll kill that woman who upgrades your Estus flasks if you progress to a certain point in the game. You can get an item from her corpse that will allow you to track him down and retrieve her soul to bring her back to life. Or you can just kill him while you have the chance. You'll get his sweet ring and some humanity, but miss out on some other loot.

The more I progress in this game the more I'm floored by the crazy shit that From put in here. They really upped the ante with the enemy variety and different environments this time around. I went one direction and ran into a massive hydra surrounded by crystalline titans, then fled in the other direction only to end up in a valley full of dragons that spit lightning. The danger of the curse ailment had me in a panic when I ran into those gas spewing toads. Then there's the fact that while cursed you can actually harm ghosts. And then I discovered how to make it back to the asylum for some sweet loot. The little hidden secrets were one of the many things I liked about Demon's Souls, and they've really expanded on that element.

I'm just saddened that despite all the improvements they made to the game design, they made so many blunders as well. I've already mentioned the issue with the leveling menu, and there's the issues with the online functionality.

But then there's the framerate that seems to bog down at the most peculiar times. For me it's usually been in nearly empty rooms for no apparent reason. From didn't really improve on the quality of the graphics a whole lot, other than making the world more open and continuous, so it would have been nice if they could have at least provided a stable framerate. Demon's Souls had a dodgy framerate in a couple areas, but I would say Dark Souls is worse in that regard.

I'd say the new lock-on system is a step back as well. IIRC, you didn't have to jerk the right stick so quickly to change targets in Demon's Souls, and I really don't see a reason for the change. I also didn't like having to switch between catalysts and talismans to cast spells and miracles respectively. Dark Souls makes it even more difficult by adding pyromancy to the equation which requires equipping a flaming fist thingy. I also think they should have added a free-aim system for magic like they have with the bow. You have next to no hope of hitting anything with magic if you don't get a lock-on, which is an issue in some situations. Though I will say that it is awesome that you can now two-hand a bow while it's equipped in your left hand.

And then there's the menus, which I find more irritating as well. Mostly it's due to not having access to Stockpile Thomas. I got the Bottomless Box which helps matters considerably, but the manner in which it works is very peculiar with you shifting numbers from one column to another, rather than just selecting which items you want to store. I would have liked multiple weapon items and the like to stack, and maybe have different tabs for different weapon and armor types.

However, none of these shortcomings are keeping me from enjoying the fuck out of this game. It's just a little disheartening to see From Software take steps back in areas that were perfectly fine in Demon's Souls. It's still one of my favorite games of the year so far, and I haven't played anything else all week. I constantly want to go back to play more, and I'm betting I'll sink at least as many hours into it as I did Demon's Souls.

[Stark]

I foolishly chose a thief, so every boss fight is just combat roll city. The Capra demon kills me in one hit through a shield, and the area is too complex for agility so he can fuck off and die. Good thing I didn't pay for the game.


The lock-on is pretty fucked, and you can't aim with crossbows either. The whole menu interface is pretty bad, but I've played Armoured Core so I know From can do a lot worse. the hatboxes on many attacks (especially bosses) are WAY too big, so you need a huge area of empty air to actually 'dodge' them, which is quite lame. That said the their armour is so bad I generally take it all off for bosses, so y'know.

[Shinova]

My copy arrived yesterday and played couple of hours last night. My first death was, like most, out of recklessness to a couple of skeletal mooks. Good times.