SC:BW or Help I suck so bad at this

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pellaeons_scion
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SC:BW or Help I suck so bad at this

Post by pellaeons_scion »

From the eloquent title you can see Im having problems with Broodwars. Im up to mission 5 (a or b) and Im getting reamed by the computer. I think ppl know the mission IM talking about, tis the one you go for mengsks command center.

Ok, Im not the most proficient SC player, I tend to stick to RoN and AOE2, but Im not a complete retard (opinions vary with mileage :wink: ). Now I can fend off the first assault by the waves of battlecruisers, even though my losses are still substantial. But, two, three waves later, my base is in ruins. I try using my ghosts to lockdown the 'cruisers, but the computer comes in, and hits me with the EMP pulse, so no lockdowns.

I SUCK!!! I cant break out, so Im turtling behind a mixed defence, that works 50% of the time. Then if thats not bad enough, whislt the 'cruisers are hitting me from three directions (gotta admire that), my tanks are locked down, and then my base disappears under a barrage of siege cannons.

Help? Tips? Brain Upgrade? Genetic manipulation to be a tactical genius? Any would be welcome. Aside from that I really love the game, I just want to get better at it. Oh and Im refusing to cheat...even if IM getting asskicked :evil:

Ta in advance
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Chardok
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Post by Chardok »

If memory serves me, (And it rarely does) I seem to recallleaving that base close to the beginning of the mission, searching out a new mineral field, setting up a NEW base, while leaving the old one only mildly defended....as I recall, the computer didn't seem to noctice the other base, and I came from behind and ass raped him....of course..that was years ago...perhaps the programming is smarter now :)
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Spyder
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Post by Spyder »

[Rabid StarCrafter Mode = On]
There is no S in Broodwar! :banghead:
RAAAAAAAAA!
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Vendetta
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Post by Vendetta »

I did the other variant of the mission, where all you have to do is spot and splat the odd Ghost coming to point a Nuke at you.

Anyway, against Battlecruisers, use massed M&Ms. Your little dudes are far more useful outside of their bunkers, and Stimpacked. (It takes 2 hits for a BC to kill a marine, stimpack or no, and BCs fire rate is sloooow)

When you see how fast a group of stimmed marines can bugger up a Battlecruiser, you'll cease fearing them.


Valkyries are also a bonus, as they do splash damage, so they hurt ALL the BCs at once if they're bunched.
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Post by Shiva Archon »

If all else fails, go back and destroy the Physics Labs in the previous mission. Dealing with nukes is much easier than waves of cruisers, and even if you screw up and get nuked, you only lose a couple tanks and a bunker or two.

Attacking in this mission is pretty tough as well, you'll need a diverse force and probably more than one attempt. I took battlecruisers and hunted tanks while sending in tanks of my own to hit the command center. Bring along medics with Restore because you'll be getting locked down a lot, and marines are good for keeping attention off your tanks.
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Post by mauldooku »

Me, being the resident SCer here with experience, can help.

However, I'm about to play in about 2 minutes. When I'm done I'll see what I can do :)
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BlkbrryTheGreat
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Post by BlkbrryTheGreat »

Goliaths, with range upgrade, absolutly rape Battlecrusiers. Just make sure you focus your fire on one at a time (n squared rule).
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mauldooku
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Post by mauldooku »

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Goliaths, with range upgrade, absolutly rape Battlecrusiers. Just make sure you focus your fire on one at a time (n squared rule).
What he said. Goliaths with range kick the crap out of battlecruisers. Just make sure you keep upgrading their armor and weapons.

Here's some tips...I seem to remember the mission, although I'm a melee player. As such, there are several things you tend to not see in melee all that much (like the enemy having such a huge, sprawling base covering near the entire map), but there are things it seems you're doing wrong :)

First off: do you know how to clone off ghosts? It's tricky to do, but it pays off in the long run. What you do is, when you see the battlecruisers begin attacking your base, move your ghosts away from the BCs. Then, select all the ghosts, and tell them all to lockdown 1 of the battlecruisers. As soon as you give that command, shift-click to deselect one of them. Now tell your ghosts to lock down another battlecruiser. Now, shift-deselect another ghost and repeat the process. This is REALLY hard until you practice it...as such, you need to practice. Fire up a melee game with the comp on Lost Temple and try to clone off your 4 starting scvs to the mineral patches at the start. Got it?

A few more tips: in starcraft, money is everything. You can't cut off the enemy's money supply in this mission, considering how huge their base is. However, you CAN maximize your own. Make SURE that scvs are being produced constantly, all the time. Anything more than 3 pre mineral patch is a waste. however keep making them, you'll want them later. That way, when you expand to a new resource patch, you already have some scvs to send over and start mining/gas harvesting right away. Oh yeah, and 4 scvs on gas. You NEED gas if you're going factory units.

Next: Macromanagment. If you notice that, for example, you have 2 bases working at peak performance and only one factory, what do you do? You build more! At your first base, if its mining at peak performance, you can easily support 2 factories churning out goliaths. Add more as you take more resource locations. Make SURE that your factories (you'll want to go goliaths and tanks, with a heavy preference toward goliaths. But you need tanks too) are working as constantly as you can make them. If you start running into supply trouble, make sure than an scv or two are ALWAYS making depots.

Next: Lockdown. Its EXCEEDINGLY rare to see both battlecruisers, science vessels, and ghosts with lockdown on the enemy's side in normal melee games with a human player. Why? It costs so much to research/explore different tech trees and keep macro up! As such, an opponent in melee who as all that either sacrificed unit prodcuction for more varied tech (usually not a good move) or already has so much money that he can do whatever the hell he wants ( In other words, he won and you might as well give up now). However, in the missions this is not the case and it is exceedingly common to see all of those arrayed against you. Some things you can do:

1) Build a science vessel or two and keep them around your main forces.
The Prevention.

2) Medics with Restoration. The Cure.

You'll want to do both. Oh, and if you notice you're getting too rich (not macromanaging well) feel free to get ghosts with lockdown yourself. Locking down his battlecruisers is practically a kill right there, as I don't think the comp uses many medics if at all.

Next: Scouting. You'll need to scout to determine enemy base locations. Don't cheat with the code...that teaches you that against real opponents you can do that, which you can't :) So, to scout, there's a few things you can do:

1) Scv. Cheap, easy, fast moving. Best scout choice, all around. You won't want to do this until you have at least around 10 or so scvs at your base, as otherwise you lose too much money you could have harvested with the scv to make it worthwhile.

2) Comsat. You NEED this...if your science vessel is locked down/destroyied/ too far away, scan to locate the ghosts. Hotkey this its so damn important. Also useful to keep tabs on what the enemy is doing. As in, you already know where a base is because you scouted 2 minutes earlier, now you want to know what the enemy has built in that time before you commit to attacks.

Next: Attacking. Remember how I said that money was so important? It will be smart to wipe out enemy bases close to your territory ASAP. Partly because they tend to have very small defense, partly because the comp tends to not help out with their bcs when a border settlement comes under attack, but mainly becuase they have cash. And you don't want them mining all that cash before you reach there.

Is that it? Did I cover anything? Tell me how you're doing. Oh, and another thing: Do you/want to play online? I knoew a few peoples from this board who do.

EDIT: Typos.
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pellaeons_scion
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Post by pellaeons_scion »

Humble apologies to Spyder=Broodwar
I shall go and read Darkstars site in penance now..

Thanks for all your help people :) After many hours and much beating my head against a brick wall, I redid the mission and chose to suffer nuking instead of BC's. Took me a while, but I finally managed to get into a routine. Blocked the chokepoints east and north of the base with missile towers, bunkers, and seige tanks and a science vessel (Non existant god be praised for these). That managed to cripple the ghost irritant.

Then I basically just charged up the techtree to get battlecruisers of my own, and then slowly stomped my way in creeping along the right hand side of the screen, using marine drops to take out irritating missile turrets. Then with 8 BC's flattened the Command Center. Maybe not a great way to do it, but it worked!

Also I realised my real problem wasnt my tactics..it was my economy. I kinda realised that 4 SVC's on minerals and 3 on gas wasnt going to get me shit :D So instead by the end of the game I had 10 on minerals 7 on gas, and had occupied two other patches to keep the war effort supplied

Theres some great ideas that have been put forward that are helping this noob get better at this awesome game

And Badme? Im on a dialup. As much as Id love to play ( and get absolutely owned!) Ill have to wait to get DSL. But ta for the offer :D

<UED BattleCruiser Warspite, orbiting the ruins of Mengsk's Command Center, Augustgrad>
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Post by mauldooku »

You can play perfectly fine on a dialup, depending on your location/provider. I used AOL with a 28k and NEVER lagged unless there were more than 5 players in the game. Don't say you can't unless you tried it :)

Oh...and about econ...you should have WAAYYY more than 10 scvs on minerals. Like 3-4 per patch. As in, never stop building scvs :)

Oh, and depending on the distance to the geyser, you only want 3-5 scvs on gas. Usually its 3. If you see more than 1 scvs waiting outside to use the geyser, their wasting their time and should be gathering minerals.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny »

I think the Archon has a tip for your.
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pellaeons_scion
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Post by pellaeons_scion »

Location=australia
Dialup...uni based connection=shite
Still, it would be a good way to try and improve my skills before our next LAN session.Maybe I wont be the resident lemming this time.maybe Ill check the web, see if there are any local servers.

*madly scribbles down notes to move towards SC greatness Hah! yeah right :wink: :D Right, more SVC's..gotcha..
If apathy could be converted to energy, Australia would have an Unlimited power source.
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