Europa Universalis II

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-04-30 07:23pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Graeme Dice wrote:For sitting around and massing loads and loads of cash, The Inca Empire.
You'll also be watching your inflation climb and climb, but that's another story

I think I'm sitting at around 100% inflation in the mid 1500's right now.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-30 07:30pm

Wow. That sucks. I used to think having like 20 Governers would give me super inflation-fighting powers...but no. They suck.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-04-30 07:31pm

Graeme Dice wrote:
Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Graeme Dice wrote:For sitting around and massing loads and loads of cash, The Inca Empire.
You'll also be watching your inflation climb and climb, but that's another story
I think I'm sitting at around 100% inflation in the mid 1500's right now.

GAH, what is good inflation, for a European country?

Like the best rate you can get?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-30 07:42pm

As Turkey the most I ever got up to was 1%

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-04-30 07:49pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Wow. That sucks. I used to think having like 20 Governers would give me super inflation-fighting powers...but no. They suck.

Tip: Governors are a one shot as far inflation reduction goes. Don't promote any governors until you need to lower your inflation.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-04-30 07:57pm

Yeah, I figured that out the hard way.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-04-30 09:07pm

Not if you have the latest beta patch. Or maybe vanilla 1.07, I'm not sure. Then governors combat inflation gradually, but I can't remember how much.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-04-30 09:10pm

Ted wrote:
Graeme Dice wrote:
Pablo Sanchez wrote: You'll also be watching your inflation climb and climb, but that's another story
I think I'm sitting at around 100% inflation in the mid 1500's right now.
GAH, what is good inflation, for a European country?

Like the best rate you can get?

Depends if you colonize. Spain or Portugal (depends if you play them since the AI doesn't conquer America well) will probably have a high amount because you can get to Aztec and Incan gold first. Austria will have very minimal inflation due to her single gold province but it'll go away if you conquer probably one territory since the gold inflation threshold (if gold makes up more than 40% of your income, basically) and Austria's pretty close to that. The Ottomans have easy access to the Armenian gold province and Russia does with Samara. China starts with one. That's all I can remember right now.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-01 05:23pm

How do you pay off bank loans?

Like before they are due?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-01 05:58pm

You can't.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-03 10:07pm

I finally picked up my Chinese game again since it got boring but I realized I enjoy administering instead of fighting constant wars

. The nationalism levels have lowered quite well and all that remains is +2 RR in former Malaccan lands and +3 is the ex-capitals of Vitavitavegimin and some other crap country unworth of me even remembering the name. The latest beta patch forced me to put tax collectors in ALL provinces (ugh) and that big project was just completed (1557ish). I'm about to hit the Closure of China event and I've decided that picking the most conservative choice would be best. It will preserve my gloriously bloated Shanghai CoT and give me a more mercantilist attitude, allowing me to start kicking the crap out of Ajeh in Malacca. I've also decided to attempt to let the Javan province in Java defect to Bali (or whoever) as I'm sick of having to crush revolts and then seige the city (they take it EVERY time, no clue why). I intend to devote most of my time converting the four Muslim territories (all ex-Malaccan) and weathering the revolts from the upcoming coming of the Manchu and the crappy events until then. After that mess is taken care of, I'll harness my huge economic might to subjucate all surrounding countries!

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-08 08:57pm

Chinese Empire, Overview, 1602:

http://cr1.50megs.com/Chinamaxibig.jpg

Chinese Empire, Indochina, 1628:

http://cr1.50megs.com/revoltomatic.jpg

Yellow borders represent 1622 borders. Note that Assam was annexed by Tibet, but previously stole two provinces from me through revolts.

I LOVE THIS GAME

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-08 08:59pm

BTW, this was the result of the White Lotus revolt event.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-09 10:41pm

C'mon, someone must care!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-05-11 12:30am

We dont care.

I'm playing as Prussia, by 1550, I've got Norway, with Iceland, Denmark, Poland, Lithuania, and about all of northern Germany, with Austria soon to become part of my empire.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-11 12:34am

Oh yeah, well Malakassar stole all of the otherwise completely Han Chinese island of mine and Indochina has virtually returned to the beginning of the game in terms of borders.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-11 07:12pm

Oh God...now going through the Outward Expansion revolts. It's 1441, and I'm scraping by at the skin of my teeth. I lost Korea, my Indochina conquests have either defected or declared independence, I had to take out two bank loans, and my army is in shambles.

I've won almost every battle, but there's SO DAMN MANY revolts. When does it end?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-11 07:29pm

Errr, I never had that problem in my game...then again, I wisely put off conquests until after revolts. But don't even reconquer them, when you get to the End of the Ming Dynasty events and the horrors before that, you'll know why. Just look at my maps. Spent all of your time colonizing and conquering ONLY the countries on the Indochinese islands and concentrate on converting the populations (only when you have a good administrative monarch, larger chance of succeeding). That way you'll be able to at least hold on to most of your investment. If you want to risk India, go ahead and try to colonize but only colonize them one level. Hopefully they wouldn't have grown up to city-level by the revolt time. Make all of the Indochinese nations your vassals and you'll at least get some cash out of them.

To combat rebels, build pure-cavalry armies. You'll most likely be fighting on plains, which gives cavalry a bonus.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-11 07:51pm

Hmm...good idea, but on all the islands I only have a 1-12 percent chance of a successful colonization.

Wait, when do these revolts end? And there's MORE? When?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-11 09:03pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Hmm...good idea, but on all the islands I only have a 1-12 percent chance of a successful colonization.

Wait, when do these revolts end? And there's MORE? When?

1) That's why you research naval tech up to transports, fill them with cavalry, and kill the natives.

2) Hehehehehehe:

Strategic Decision, which you chose Outward Expansion:
-6 stab
5 years RR of 8
Move to Beijing (Please say you did):
-1 stab
The Emperor has been Captured! c.1449:
-3 stab
8 years RR of 3
(You also get an event after the 8 years where the Emperor is returned and get a stab boost of +3)
Repair the Great Wall (You get it twice):
Don't even bother doing it, there is no utility and you get a stab bonus for refusing each time.
Japanese Pirates Attack! c.1523:
Choose Combat the pirates, which will cost you -300d so save up. This saves you from a more damaging pirate event.
Closure of China c.1557:
Up to you, two options involve either a stab boost or reduction of 1, two involve a CoT in Canton coming into being and giving Portugal the province with Macao in it. It'll probably revolt and revert back to you after a while, though. Choose what you want.
The Arrival of the Jesuits c.1581:
Choose No for a stab +2 and to disable a rather nasty event that comes later with lots of RR and -stab.
Famine! c.1588:
Short name, painful event. Choose Try to alleviate the suffering for -1 stab and -1000d. Save up, you can't afford the bad choice.
The Manchu Rebellion c.1615:
Choose We are too weak to crush the rebels for -3 stab and 5 years RR of 5. The other choice is hell.
The Cult of the White Lotus c1622:
Choose Let the forces of the Empire crush the Rebellion! for -500d, -3 stab, and 20 years RR of 10. Yes, twenty years. If you have possible revolters, they'll probably break away from your enlightened rule.
The Financial Crisis c.1640:
Choose No, our subjects are already angry enough! for +1 stab. A bunch of provinces lose 1 tax value point, but you don't want the other choice of more revolts.
Li Zechang's Rebellion c.1644:
Choose Let us negotiate with him and get -3 stab, 1 year RR of 5, -1000d, and 10k troops will desert from an army.

You want the Manchu independant in 1644, too, though I doubt you'll be conquering them. Also, save your game sometime before April 25th.

The Fall of the Ming Dynasty, April 25, 1644:
Choose Throw our lot in with the Manchu and proclaim the Qing Dynasty and get -3 stab, 10 years BB of 5, a bunch of revolts, five 10k desertions (I doubt you'll have such an army anyway), and lose a bunch of research value.

Now, after you choose "Throw our lot in...", the Manchu will get an event that confirms your choice and you inherit the Manchu country. You will then get another event after this that renames you Manchu and 5 years RR of 5. Sometime before the late 1680s you will get a Manchu event that will transform you back into China if China does not exist. I'm not sure if this will give you Manchu culture somewhere along the line, but it doesn't really matter. If the Manchu AI does NOT choose accept your union proposal, simply reload the game until it does.

I've left out any other Chinese events that do not involve stability or ones that do that happen after you become the Manchu. If you really want to know, search around the EU2 directory for an events folder and search for "major_chi.txt".

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-11 09:16pm

1) That's why you research naval tech up to transports, fill them with cavalry, and kill the natives.

I'll do that when my empire stops falling apart.

-6 stab
5 years RR of 8

Gr.

Move to Beijing (Please say you did):
-1 stab

You get -300 gold, and it moves to Hebei, right? I think I did that.

The Emperor has been Captured! c.1449:
-3 stab
8 years RR of 3
(You also get an event after the 8 years where the Emperor is returned and get a stab boost of +3)

God, no...

The Manchu Rebellion c.1615:
Choose We are too weak to crush the rebels for -3 stab and 5 years RR of 5. The other choice is hell.

If I don't annex them completely, do I dodge this bullet?

The Cult of the White Lotus c1622:
Choose Let the forces of the Empire crush the Rebellion! for -500d, -3 stab, and 20 years RR of 10. Yes, twenty years. If you have possible revolters, they'll probably break away from your enlightened rule.

Fucking hell.

The other option CAN'T be as bad as that.

Li Zechang's Rebellion c.1644:
Choose Let us negotiate with him and get -3 stab, 1 year RR of 5, -1000d, and 10k troops will desert from an army.

...there's no better choice?

The Fall of the Ming Dynasty, April 25, 1644:
Choose Throw our lot in with the Manchu and proclaim the Qing Dynasty and get -3 stab, 10 years BB of 5, a bunch of revolts, five 10k desertions (I doubt you'll have such an army anyway), and lose a bunch of research value.

...what's the other choice?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-11 09:54pm

You get -300 gold, and it moves to Hebei, right? I think I did that.

Good.

If I don't annex them completely, do I dodge this bullet?

This is the GOOD event.

The other one is triggered if they aren't independant and it is called Emperor Chongzhen Commits Suicide. That will effectively give them a huge powerbase and you get tons of nasty, like desertions and RR and -stab...tons of stuff.

The other option CAN'T be as bad as that.

-5 stab
25 years RR of 15
5 random revolts (the "good" option gives you two random ones)

...there's no better choice?

The other one is this choice on crack, basically, but no cash. This choice is worth every ducat.

...what's the other choice?

The "die-hard independance" option gives the Manchu a ton of your territories and you basically have a fun Southern Ming Hell for a very, very long time. Don't do it.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-19 05:49pm

As a coastless Bavaria, I am colonizing St. Helena...

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-05-22 07:08pm

It's the late 1660's and I'm kicking ass as Russia. Novgorod went indy on me after a series of revolts and has over 66K troops in their one province, so I'm slowly amassing a large army to annex it again. I took a few provinces from Sibir, Nogai, and the Uzbek and then expanded down the Siberian corridor, so now I'm leaving the Khangates and their worthless provinces alone.

I conquered the Golden Horde, diploannexed Suzdal, got all of Novgorod's other territories and Finnmark from Sweden. I also diploannexed Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine, and am eyeing a diploannexation of Armenia.

I vassalized Ryazan and Kazan, and they both still hate me, though they're in worthless territory so I'm not going to bother with them.

I've fought my way onto Asia Minor, taking Hellas, Taurus, Angora, and Konya from the Ottoman Empire. This is made possible because I chose to remain with the Byzantine Church, thus giving me NP shields in several Ottoman territories.

The European front is largely quiet. A war with Poland or Sweden might be coming after Novgorod is annexed.

I've also began a North American empire. The colonization of Conneticut and Bangor provided a base, and I just recently annexed the Lenape. A quick colonial war with France will net me Chesapeake, and then I'm going to crush the Hurons and the Iroquis. Then I guess I'll extensively colonize unsettled Asia and Siberia.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-05-22 08:44pm

Baw haw haw, kill those steppe barbarians!