STGOD: A Dead Art?

[Starglider]

The disquiet platforms are a cool idea, but they aren't going to work for the game.

Ok, I will move the 20 points into better communications instead. That would be consistent with the rather-fast-but-not-instant comms I seem to have been using in the pre-game roleplaying.

EDIT: Updated my OOB (the platforms are still there but they have no operational capability - entirely consistent with the Kiroter'nah tendency to run lots of impractical mad science projects based on Progenitor technology they don't really understand). Updated the summary to reflect changes by me and HSRTG.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Crossroads could you add a name to nt01jones's purple Stellar Dominion hex in the next version of the map please? And what is that anonymous light green hex on the upper right edge?

Are you talking about single Pink Hex next to RedLeader? I've been waiting ages for someone to tell me who that belonged to.. As for the Hex in the far corner, I have no idea, must have been an accidental painting.

Will make changes shortly

[rhoenix]

Revision 6 of my OOB is now complete. "Fire-control" has been removed, and the navy redesigned to account for the change in tactics.

...I do hope I haven't missed anything else, that took me a while to fix properly.

EDIT: ...Make that revision 6.2. Thank you for pointing out my math and tactical errors, Starglider.

[Crossroads Inc.]

New Map New Map! Move down, move down!


EDIT: theres still a boat load of players not in there and names are already overlapping... Im itching for that 3D map to help things out.

[Surlethe]

STGOD: A Dead Art?

Obviously not.

More on topic, I'm interested in participating, but there's no way I'll be able to keep up with threads that balloon in four pages per day, plus all keeping track of fluff and stats. Is there, say, a low-intensity, low-effort way of playing, or are STGODs only for the dedicated?

[Starglider]

Is there, say, a low-intensity, low-effort way of playing

No.

or are STGODs only for the dedicated?

This one is.

In case you missed it, there was a major argument earlier that ended in a minor retcon. This was caused by me missing one word in a post I wasn't expecting to mention me, in a busy period, which caused another player to do something they wouldn't have otherwise, which eventually led to a mod ruling that you miss anything from now on, you live with the consequences however inappropriate your actions. Serious continuity breaks are pretty much unavoidable if you don't at least try to read everything.

[Hotfoot]

Is there, say, a low-intensity, low-effort way of playing

No.

or are STGODs only for the dedicated?

This one is.

In case you missed it, there was a major argument earlier that ended in a minor retcon. This was caused by me missing one word in a post I wasn't expecting to mention me, in a busy period, which caused another player to do something they wouldn't have otherwise, which eventually led to a mod ruling that you miss anything from now on, you live with the consequences however inappropriate your actions. Serious continuity breaks are pretty much unavoidable if you don't at least try to read everything.

However, if people do a better job of tagging their posts, then such issues are mitigated. The tagging is simple enough, state the general location and rough time the event is happening. That way, people that are there can pay attention.

[rhoenix]

In case you missed it, there was a major argument earlier that ended in a minor retcon. This was caused by me missing one word in a post I wasn't expecting to mention me, in a busy period, which caused another player to do something they wouldn't have otherwise, which eventually led to a mod ruling that you miss anything from now on, you live with the consequences however inappropriate your actions. Serious continuity breaks are pretty much unavoidable if you don't at least try to read everything.

Just as an aside, I still say that having the STGOD games in their own forum, with as many threads as necessary for the game (even make it like the Hall of Shame, where only mods can make threads or something) would be much less confusing for more casual and curious players to jump in, and not feel like one just walked over someone's Magic:TG card collection.

More on topic, I'm interested in participating, but there's no way I'll be able to keep up with threads that balloon in four pages per day, plus all keeping track of fluff and stats. Is there, say, a low-intensity, low-effort way of playing, or are STGODs only for the dedicated?

Heh, the official game thread hasn't even been made yet, either. As I understand it, the game is supposed to be relatively low-impact and effort, but the legion of new players bringing new ideas necessitated new mod rulings en masse. Once things properly start up, they should calm down by quite a bit. This is just "oooH! must play with shiny object!" syndrome with most of us, just because we've never played in an STGOD before.

EDIT: Added comment to Surlethe.

[Tasoth]

Your mobile mothership and 'Retaliation' are not going to happen.

The idea behind the mothership point was actually to have something for a player to attack with the Vak actually lacking a planet. It's assailable, but would just require someone to scout it out or follow a family pod home when they left a system. With no retaliation, I'll just have to put more family pods into play as I get the points for them.

[Covenant]

Also, there IS a low-impact way to play, and I'm currently playing it. It's called not trying to involve yourself with everyone else's business at all times. The massive orgy on Earth is not going to be a neverending thing. If your species is relatively secluded and doesn't feel like being that guy who always barges into a conversation, then there's plenty of opportunity to limit your sphere of interest and have therefore fewer things to handle.

Trying to keep up with EVERYONE is going to be hard. But if you tried to keep up with your corner of the map's goings on--instead of all the diplomatic teaparties--then you can definately play lighter. While such a playstyle may lack the kind of finesse you might expect from a wheeling-and-dealing type of nationstate, not everyone is. Just don't expect to be making headline news with everyone unless you want to read all the posts.

[Tanasinn]

Can points in EW be used against interdiction, or is raw drive power the only thing that'll do?

[Hotfoot]

Your mobile mothership and 'Retaliation' are not going to happen.

The idea behind the mothership point was actually to have something for a player to attack with the Vak actually lacking a planet. It's assailable, but would just require someone to scout it out or follow a family pod home when they left a system. With no retaliation, I'll just have to put more family pods into play as I get the points for them.

The translation is this: you need an assailable production center. There needs to be a way that you could be taken out of the game, and the way you have your OOB as of right now, that is not possible.

Can points in EW be used against interdiction, or is raw drive power the only thing that'll do?

EW works against EW and damage, not interdiction. Drives are the only thing that work.

[Tanasinn]

Okay, then, my OOB's up. It should clock in at a full 1500 points.

I'll change things around as necessary for the rules, but this will probably be the state of my fleet and forces as the game gets going.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I Have a Question!!!

[Question]

Can we spend points on something, and not say what they are? IE have a secret force? Like, build some unknown ships and IG make sure no one knows about it?

[Covenant]

I Have a Question!!!

[Question]

Can we spend points on something, and not say what they are? IE have a secret force? Like, build some unknown ships and IG make sure no one knows about it?

As in... in your OOB, or in your in-game purchases? I would consider all current forces equally 'unknown' to each other. The first person to contact my Dinosaurs will be seeing them for the first time, so they can't possibly know what my ships are.

[Hotfoot]

Well, here's the thing. Out of game knowledge should be kept out of game. Hence, if you wanted to destroy the production capabilities of someone who has obscured it, you wouldn't be able to magically know where it was right off the bat, you'd have to spend time looking for it.

So you should be able to put secret projects in your OOB without people reacting to it. TOTALLY secret projects can end poorly, but it is possible with very close mod support, and for something like this, I'd think all the mods would have to agree on if what you wanted to do was workable.

[Crossroads Inc.]

AH see, there it is, I wanted to know just HOW secret a 'secret' project could be. Am mostly thinkiong of something in the far future, but wanted to ask now before commiting myself.

When the time comes I will probably post it to clear with mods.

[rhoenix]

AH see, there it is, I wanted to know just HOW secret a 'secret' project could be. Am mostly thinkiong of something in the far future, but wanted to ask now before commiting myself.

When the time comes I will probably post it to clear with mods.

Don't underestimate the power of PM or IM messages for clarification. I've certainly (ab)used this more than once to make sure I wasn't stepping into anything.

[rhoenix]

Alright, I've updated my OOB with fluff about my infantry and cleaned up a few sections as well.

Also, quick question about troop transports - what is the appropriate bonus for these? I have +4 to marine capacity on my Hel ships, but I was informed that a bonus to marine capacity is not a bonus, whereas bonuses to boarding was. May I get a clarification on this?

[Rawtooth]

Question, is it possible to develop the tech, or does the tech already exist, for interdiction mines?

I was wondering if we could get a rule of thumb for how many more hexes a ship with +engines could move. If there hasn't been one, I'd go for every +10 is another hex that the ship can move...

And just to make sure, even though I'm already certain that it does, I'm guessing having a cloaked ship be interdiction or EW support will make it easier to find.

[Imperial Overlord]

Starglider has interdiction mines. FTL speed hasn't been set in stone yet, although we are going for about "Star Trek" levels so going to another star system will take time. Yes, your cloaked ship making noise will make you easier to find.

[Starglider]

Question, is it possible to develop the tech, or does the tech already exist, for interdiction mines?

I have 'interdiction minelayers' which actually create diffuse space anomalies instead of laying physical mines. The reasoning behind that is that space is a huge and unless your physical mines are either very fast or very powerful it's unlikely that an enemy would come close enough for them to have an effect. Alternately you could just go for cloaked explosive mines and lay them right outside the enemy fleet yards. Nasty, but highly risky to your (presumably cloaked) minelayer.

And just to make sure, even though I'm already certain that it does, I'm guessing having a cloaked ship be interdiction or EW support will make it easier to find.

EW support while cloaked is pretty much impossible because a) the fact that cloak is 'double blind' (so no way to detect where other ships are, what systems they are using etc) and b) home-on-jam is trivial for this technology level. Similarly you can't leave a cloaked ship somewhere and have it intercept comm traffic without decloaking. I was pushing it a bit when I sent a one-way message to my currently-cloaked ship; I justified that as it being like the ELF messages sent to submarines in real life (very low bandwidth and receive only - and I do have +20 to comms).

EDIT: Summarised Tanasinn. Points add up but his fleet is extremely complicated. I ignored some advantages that seemed to just be general combat capability (e.g. 'fighter control'). My guess is that unless otherwise specified a ship is assumed to have reasonable capability against all sizes of opponent, so loading it up with extra light point defence guns /and/ heavy anti-capship guns seems a bit pointless - might as well just take a higher base value.

[Tanasinn]

(I've actually just ditched the "advanced fighter" capability, since it was essentially just point-defense with a different name)

As for my use of bonuses like anti-cap and anti-fighter/light craft (called point-defense in my OOB), I was of the impression that some smaller ships could hold an edge on bigger ones if they added points of focused anti-cap weapons rather than general combat points. I figured that cap and fighter defense would work similarly: a ship with boosted cap-defense would more easily deal with heavy guns than if it generalized to boost combat ability through base points. Am I mistaken there?

[Starglider]

I was of the impression that some smaller ships could hold an edge on bigger ones if they added points of focused anti-cap weapons rather than general combat points.

That's correct. But some of your ships have extra light guns and extra heavy guns. Are these supposed to have an edge on everything except light cruisers, which they have a mysterious weakness to?

a ship with boosted cap-defense would more easily deal with heavy guns than if it generalized to boost combat ability through base points.

I am not clear how it is possible to have passive defence against heavy guns that does not also work against light guns and fighters. Several people tried to have 'strong shields' and 'heavy armour' which were declared equivalent to general combat ability, since they basically make the ship work better against everything.

Incidentally I am thinking about reworking my earlier 'starship grudge match' simulation project into the basis for a VSTGOD later. If you'd like to see detailed fire control, weapon and sensor ranges, each individual piece of armour plate having its temperature and stress tracked, modelling of compartment depressurisation and internal explosions, simulation of power distribution and ammo/fuel capacity etc etc perhaps you'd like to participate in that game if and when it happens.

[Tanasinn]

That's correct. But some of your ships have extra light guns and extra heavy guns. Are these supposed to have an edge on everything except light cruisers, which they have a mysterious weakness to?

Well...that's not how I intended it. Those ships divide up between especially heavy guns and more heavily-specialized point-defense than is standard. I figured having fewer points into highly specialized guns was a reasonable tradeoff for a bit more defense against light ships and missiles than would be normal for a ship of that point value. They would have to fight harder against light capital ships too small and agile for really big capship guns and too large for point-defense, but I figure that's what escorts are for, whose guns are smaller as one goes down the line, even if they do put a premium on their bigger guns. Am I being reasonable by doing this?

I am not clear how it is possible to have passive defence against heavy guns that does not also work against light guns and fighters.

My cap-defense isn't really passive, as explained in my shield fluff. Shipboard computers use a combination of sensors and predictors to (pretty accurately) tell which heavy battery is going to fire next and the region in where it's going to hit. The ship's computers then overcharge the shield in that area by drawing from safe zones on the shield or power reserves. Tracking tons of fightercraft and light guns is harder, because they tend to be more numerous, fire faster, and have low power signatures that make sensing the coming sledgehammer harder. Or, at least, that's how I intended it.[/quote]