Mass Effect 2

[Ford Prefect]

Does anyone else think there's something highly homo-erotic about how Shepherd approaches Kaiden for conversations, like they're about to grapple and make out right then and there?

Would you blame him? Have you seen Kaidan's hair?

[Stark]

Kaidan is a far more attractive person than Ashley the Retard. I was glad when she died for no reason due to a forced bit of plotting.

[adam_grif]

The Shepard I'm dragging into Mass 2 went sexless because Ashley is a xenophobic dick, and I can't stand Liara at all.

Seconding the motion for Kaiden being > Ashley.

[Ghost Rider]

Does anyone else think there's something highly homo-erotic about how Shepherd approaches Kaiden for conversations, like they're about to grapple and make out right then and there?

Sheppard's choices are

Blue Chick
Manly woman
Womanly man.

Really...it would've flowed better if Kaiden wanted Male Sheppard. Ashley is a bit too butch in both graphic and attitude, and Blue Chick is for "LESBIANS IN SPACE!" along with the James T Kirk option.

[adam_grif]

There's 2 blue chicks actually, the Asari Consort in the Citadel is the other one. You do a quest, then say that a gift of words wasn't really what you had in mind for a reward.

I discovered this by accident during my renegade playthrough, since being ungrateful is the option in the "renegade dialogue" part of the circle.

[Gramzamber]

How is Kaidan "womanly"? Oh he talkes about his feelings and dares to complain when you act like a dick, this is the sole domain of pussies and women because we all know all male characters should be hardcore lugnut chewing Marcus Fenix gorilla clones.
Mind you I don't get the hate for Ashley either. She's macho? Yeah, she's a space marine, not a stripper. She's mildly prejudiced against aliens? In a plot that is basically "ALIENZ R DUMB ALL HAIL HUMANITY" why is she singled out?

[Ghost Rider]

There's 2 blue chicks actually, the Asari Consort in the Citadel is the other one. You do a quest, then say that a gift of words wasn't really what you had in mind for a reward.

I discovered this by accident during my renegade playthrough, since being ungrateful is the option in the "renegade dialogue" part of the circle.

That counts about as much as Dragon Age's random "Sex-them up chick.".

[Aaron]

The Shepard I'm dragging into Mass 2 went sexless because Ashley is a xenophobic dick, and I can't stand Liara at all.

Seconding the motion for Kaiden being > Ashley.

Strange as it sounds, I actually find Ash rather amusing. It was comforting I suppose to be able to point to her and go "yeah, she's the racist, religious nut."

I'm playing through again, to setup a character to take into ME2 and I find myself wondering if you get to carry your cash forward. I'm also hoping they get rid of the unstoppable cut scenes and the "jump gate of doom" sound effect that makes my desk vibrate.

[Gramzamber]

Remember kids, "I believe in God" = religious nut.

[Aaron]

Nah, it was the combination of racism and religion that made her a nut. I still like her as a character though.

[adam_grif]

There's 2 blue chicks actually, the Asari Consort in the Citadel is the other one. You do a quest, then say that a gift of words wasn't really what you had in mind for a reward.

I discovered this by accident during my renegade playthrough, since being ungrateful is the option in the "renegade dialogue" part of the circle.

That counts about as much as Dragon Age's random "Sex-them up chick.".

Haven't played Dragon Age, but I understand what you're saying.

How is Kaidan "womanly"? Oh he talkes about his feelings and dares to complain when you act like a dick, this is the sole domain of pussies and women because we all know all male characters should be hardcore lugnut chewing Marcus Fenix gorilla clones.

Womanly. As in, having characteristics associated with women. Whether or not you think that's an arbitrary association or not doesn't really make a difference.

[Gramzamber]

Womanly. As in, having characteristics associated with women. Whether or not you think that's an arbitrary association or not doesn't really make a difference.

So what does that mean, he has a vagina?
Or are we indeed getting into arbitrary and possibly misogynist territory here "oooh he complains a lot, he must be a woman, because REAL MEN never complain about anything ever. Hoorah!"

[adam_grif]

So what does that mean, he has a vagina?
Or are we indeed getting into arbitrary and possibly misogynist territory here "oooh he complains a lot, he must be a woman, because REAL MEN never complain about anything ever. Hoorah!"

Yes, arbitrary characteristics. Ask the dude who said it what he means specifically, but don't pretend you don't understand that there are a whole bunch of characteristics, some arbitrary and some with a biological basis between the physical and social attributes of men and women.

Even though long hair, wearing mascara and prominent jewelery are arbitrary characteristics for a woman to have, someone who possesses them is "womanly", because they are characteristics associated with being a woman by our society. This is not a normative statement but a descriptive one.

If this is not what Ghost Rider meant, I'm sure he'll be happy to correct me. But until we get some kind of confirmation, it's just being dishonest to try and tell him he's being misogynistic for something that could in no way be construed as such.

[Gramzamber]

He's not the first to call Kaidan "womanly" and I'll never understand why, since Kaidan does not have long hair, wear gaudy earrings or makeup or look feminine since he's about as square jawed as you can get without being the typical man-gorilla seen in a standard sci-fi FPS.
I am overall a little sick of the Kaidan bashing. And the Ashley bashing for that matter. Especially when it comes to her appearance. I'd rather have her than the "look! titties!" companions they're giving us in ME2. Which might be moot if the armor is all as generic as in ME1 but still.

[Starglider]

You would have to be delusional to consider Kaidan 'womanly'. He's more stereotypically masculine than at least half the men I know, and for that matter most of the guys posting here.

Ashley was religious and racist enough to be irritating to me, but I have a low tolerance threshold; really it was very mild and consistent with her backstory. Having just one major character showing those negative traits to a mild degree actually made humanity look better than if no one showed them, since it's more like we realistically made slow social progress against them instead of TNG magicking them away by writer fiat.

Liara was vaguely pathetic out of combat. Of course the debate over canonical love interests is rendered irrelevant by the undeniable fact that Tali is by far the hottest character in ME1.

[adam_grif]

Liara was vaguely pathetic out of combat. Of course the debate over canonical love interests is rendered irrelevant by the undeniable fact that Tali is by far the hottest character in ME1.

Aren't you forgetting about somebody?

I'll give you a hint. His name starts with W and ends with rex.

Reow!

[Gramzamber]

If Tali takes her helmet off in ME2 and we see buck teeth and a mustache I will cackle at everyone who swooned over her exageratted hips.
Also I found her personality a mite annoying. Stop trying to be more renegade than me, Tali! That's my job!

[Vendetta]

If Tali takes her helmet off in ME2 and we see buck teeth and a mustache I will cackle at everyone who swooned over her exageratted hips.

I want to see them troll the internet by making Tali a furry or something.

Though obviously there's them who would think that was even better.

[adam_grif]

Taking off her helmet means getting lethal infections, so the outcome is positive no matter what she's revealed to be.

[Agent Fisher]

With regards to Ash being racist, it does make sense, considering her family had been ridiculed and blacklisted in the military since her grandfather surrendered to Turians during the First Contact War. So, I get where she's coming from. It seemed like the Williams were a family with a long military tradition. And that was ruined by aliens. So, her having a dislike of aliens makes sense.

[GuppyShark]

Ashley was religious and racist enough to be irritating to me, but I have a low tolerance threshold; really it was very mild and consistent with her backstory. Having just one major character showing those negative traits to a mild degree actually made humanity look better than if no one showed them, since it's more like we realistically made slow social progress against them instead of TNG magicking them away by writer fiat.

Apparently religious beliefs are so uncommon in Mass Effect that when she says she thinks her pa is "watching over her" Shephard's response can be "Watching over you? You just said he was dead."

I found her poetry more offensive.

[open_sketchbook]

Exactly. Religion is dying out among humanity in Mass Effect; not magically handwaved away, but dying. Ashley would probably be seen in-universe as a fanatic for believing anything at all, but she's pretty reserved about her faith. Now, I'm no apologist; because you're not in other people's face about your stupid beliefs doesn't make you any more of a retard, but people treat her like some sort of Nazi space crusader when she's actually just a flawed, human character.

[Gramzamber]

You do realise you can play Shepard as being the atheist or religious (hello "no atheists in foxholes" crack that makes me want to shoot anyone who says it) or just not care during that scene?
I fail to see how this indicates the state of religion among humanity overall.

[open_sketchbook]

She's concerned of being accused of being a fanatic over her quiet, personal religious beliefs. I'd say that's pretty indicative.

[General Zod]

I'm thinking Ashley just gets flak because she's a main character so her thoughts on aliens were always out front. Anyone remember how cagey and paranoid the rest of the Normandy crew was over the thought of having aliens aboard?