WoW: Warlords of Draenor

[Civil War Man]

I... just... wat.

The main spoiler thread is on MMOC, but I kept up on it through reposts on SoL.

Okay. All of the characters from other timelines are chosen specifically by Kairoz. For example the alternate Baine killed Garrosh and is now the Warchief of the Horde. He is full of rage and anger. Baine had to convince him that they were the same at the core and that his decisions were wrong. Once Baine did that the timeline Baine disappeared. Similar with Kalecgos, the mad timeline Kalecgos didn't stop Jaina from destroying Orgrimmar with he tidal wave and as a result all the Blue Dragons, Jaina and everyone Kalecgos loved, died. He convinced the timeline Kalecgos that it wasn't his fault and it was Jaina's actions. Once he realized they were the same and that this was true, he disappeared.

Alright guys, another chapter has finished. Anduin finished his witness stand and concluded that Garrosh shouldn't be executed because he could change, "like his father changed."

[TheFeniX]

Alright guys, another chapter has finished. Anduin finished his witness stand and concluded that Garrosh shouldn't be executed because he could change, "like his father changed."

I've actually read something like this on the forums: Varian and Garrosh are two side to the same coin. Is their anything to this? Varian came across as a hard-ass that wanted to see the Horde destroyed, but his motivation has always been that he's pissed for the Horde keeping him as a slave (and a gladiator) and that he's pretty sure the Horde would murder everyone in the Alliance given the chance (or just enslave them all). Varian isn't evil and doesn't want to see the entirety of the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls dead and/or in chains.

Meanwhile, from what I know about the Garrosh story-arc, the heart of Yshaar (sp) couldn't corrupt him because he was already so much of an asshole there was really nothing left to corrupt. He'd damn every non-orc to slavery/death because he is a massively evil a racist asshole.

Vereesa Windrunner seriously considering letting Sylvanas murder her and raise her into undeath so she can go live with her sister in the Undercity, only changing her mind when she sees Anduin and remembers that she'd be abandoning her kids.

If there was ever a way to ensure I never read a WoW novel, that sentence would be it.

[Darmalus]

I've actually read something like this on the forums: Varian and Garrosh are two side to the same coin. Is their anything to this? Varian came across as a hard-ass that wanted to see the Horde destroyed, but his motivation has always been that he's pissed for the Horde keeping him as a slave (and a gladiator) and that he's pretty sure the Horde would murder everyone in the Alliance given the chance (or just enslave them all). Varian isn't evil and doesn't want to see the entirety of the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls dead and/or in chains.

Meanwhile, from what I know about the Garrosh story-arc, the heart of Yshaar (sp) couldn't corrupt him because he was already so much of an asshole there was really nothing left to corrupt. He'd damn every non-orc to slavery/death because he is a massively evil a racist asshole.

Basically. Varian was an asshole on account of being a traumatized survivor of the gladiator rings and that weird personality magic/split thing that never made any sense to me. Something about him being carved into two people for a while, whatever. Given a bit of time to calm down he seems to be shaping up into a decent character.

Garrosh was just a straight up racist asshole of no redeeming value. He wasn't corrupted, but it's not like the heart had any time to work on him in it's weakened state anyway so how corruptible he was is kinda up in the air as an unanswered question. Garrosh on a good day was as bad or worse than any of the sha-corrupted npcs we met.

[TheFeniX]

So, did Varian really change? Or did he just he just settle down from his extended temper-tantrum and get his shit together? I've been doing a lot of old LK content at the Argent grounds, and there's all this back and forth between faction leads. Varian is talking some shit but he is primarily concerned the Horde will break the armistice and start running rough-shod during the tournament. And his concerns seem pretty valid what with Garrosh (who isn't even Faction Lead at the time) taking every opportunity to be like "fuck all this noise, we should be killing all the Alliance because reasons. Alliance suck, Horde Strong!"

[Civil War Man]

Varian in general is kind of a mess of a character. He's engaged in a lot of scumbag behavior without anyone being allowed to call him out on it.

He holds up Gilneas's readmission into the Alliance because he doesn't like Genn, then starts negotiations to bring the Blood Elves into the Alliance without including any of the other Alliance leaders in the talks.
He yells at Jaina for disrupting those secret talks that he never told her about, then apparently in this book he yells at her because she left him out of the loop when she helped Baine retake Thunderbluff after the Grimtotem coup in The Shattering.

[TheFeniX]

So, he's just kind of a dick that think he knows what's best for the Alliance which usually blows up in his face to keep the gameplay going.

There's a new post concerning raid content in WoW through the years. Of note, I want to see the mental gymnastics of classic raiders as they try to argue against a comment like this:

Therefore, applying the tried and true principles of Internet forum logic, Lucifron was clearly more challenging than Garrosh—or any boss in the past 5 years for that matter. OK, maybe not. The delay was due not to the bosses’ difficulty, but rather the fact that it took even the most dedicated groups with extensive raiding experience from past MMOs that long to assemble a sufficiently large group of level-60 players who had obtained the appropriate dungeon and endgame quest gear. In many ways, that was the most challenging aspect of classic WoW raiding: the logistics of assembling and maintaining a sufficient roster with sufficient gear.

The barrier to entry was stupidly high, as it was in a lot of MMOs, for WoW's original raids.

New players joining the game during the summer of 2006, at the height of Naxxramas progression, had virtually no hope of ever seeing Kel’Thuzad. At best, they might level quickly and get enough dungeon gear to join a guild that was still doing Molten Core.

And this is why people railing against "free" 496 gear given out in the Timeless Isle need to just shut up. There's no point in spamming MV or ToES, just to get into ToT and spam that, just so you can get into SoO and start doing actual current content. None of this "welfare gear" is giving players free Heroic Garrosh kills, or even normal mode kills. Flex isn't exactly brutal considering how geared pug leads want you, but it's also not a cake-walk like LFR.

This came to a head in ICC where a lot of "hardcore" players consider it the death-knell of "true raiding" completely ignoring that only established guilds really had a shot at downing even normal mode LK and this was at a point where you could walk into the instance almost over-geared for it. Had that same concept applied back in Classic, you'd have had a lot more boss kills just due to the simplicity of the mechanics back then.

[Civil War Man]

That's a decent way of putting it. Old raids had a higher barrier for entry. There was only one size and one difficulty. Newer raids, while more mechanically complex, have their difficulty masked by multiple difficulties and quality of life improvements. So it didn't matter that, during Wrath for instance, Firefighter, Alone in the Dark, and Heroic Lich King were some of the most difficult encounters that Blizzard had ever produced by that point in the game. Disgruntled players saw how quickly the easier versions of the fights were cleared and based their opinions about the expansion's overall difficulty around the easier modes. Something which has only gotten worse with the additions of LFR and Flex.

[Broomstick]

The elite players were also pissed off at the rabble being enabled to reach the end game, they're the sort that views the rest of the player base existing to serve them. Blizzard at some point realized that the Average Joe was never going to be elite but, since he was paying the exact same subscription fee, Average Joe also wanted to see some of the end game.

Personally, I though the solution of making a "dumbed down" version of the end game accessible to virtually everyone who put some effort into it, while maintaining a much harder version of the end game for elite players was a good solution. But then, what do I know? I'm one of those pansy-ass casual players.

I've actually not bothered with raiding in Panderia. I did some from Burning Crusade through Cataclysm, but that was enough for me (although my guild raided in Vanilla I never did manage to level and gear up sufficiently to join the raiding parties. With later expansions the old guard did take anyone who wanted it through earlier raids, which I thought was pretty cool).

[TheFeniX]

That's a decent way of putting it. Old raids had a higher barrier for entry. There was only one size and one difficulty. Newer raids, while more mechanically complex, have their difficulty masked by multiple difficulties and quality of life improvements.

There's a side-effect to this: even in cata, guilds were clearing BWD and BoT bosses in green questing gear with a few pieces of 333 and 346 gear. With the emphasis now on mechanics, rather than gear checks, guilds with a competent group of raiders can blow through content many pugs have issue with. They then assume the content is trivial, which is anything but true. The "difficulty" shift was immediately apparent.

They do have a point though. Even though mechanics shift a lot in Heroic content, you're still farming normals for a few months, then doing the same bosses, only upping the ante. That can get boring.

So it didn't matter that, during Wrath for instance, Firefighter, Alone in the Dark, and Heroic Lich King were some of the most difficult encounters that Blizzard had ever produced by that point in the game. Disgruntled players saw how quickly the easier versions of the fights were cleared and based their opinions about the expansion's overall difficulty around the easier modes. Something which has only gotten worse with the additions of LFR and Flex.

Exactly, and I'm pretty sure a lot of it comes down to their insistence of a "raiders club." They earned the right to that content and just accessing it should be reserved for those that could put in the time.

Normally, I'd agree with them, if the raids weren't tied directly to the story experience. I honestly wouldn't mind if "heroic" raids were wholly separate affairs that were just super-bosses with different/better gear. But there's no point in Blizzard doing that because the raiders pushing that kind of progression are not the ones filling their coffers. As much as they like to claim otherwise, raiders have never been what made WoW popular. Raiders should be thankful Blizzard even continues to tune Heroic content instead of grousing about how any casual can slay Garrosh and get gear 50ilvl below what they are rolling for.

[Civil War Man]

The elite players were also pissed off at the rabble being enabled to reach the end game, they're the sort that views the rest of the player base existing to serve them. Blizzard at some point realized that the Average Joe was never going to be elite but, since he was paying the exact same subscription fee, Average Joe also wanted to see some of the end game.

I don't know if that's entirely fair. Usually when you see the complaining about the casuals, it's typically not an actual elite player. The guys getting world firsts typically don't care whether the casual guilds are clearing the raids after they've already finished Heroic. Most of the self-professed elites are posers, often with half or more of their gear being LFR drops. These are usually the people who complained about Wrath 5-mans being too easy, then complained even louder because they ran into a brick wall right off the bat when Blizzard upped the difficulty in Cataclysm. It's less that they are pissed that the rabble are able to reach end game, and more that they are pissed because they are part of the rabble. They want Blizzard to tune end-game content so they can clear it, but not anyone they deem less skilled than them.

[Broomstick]

Yeah, OK, what you said.

I don't interact with people doing world firsts, just the wannabes so that tends to color my perceptions.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah Civil War Man hit the nail on the head here, while there's some players with overblown egos cause they can do world firsts aka people I call elitists , they're a minority, the true problem is the wannabe elitists who have all the overblown "I'm better then you" attitude but none of the actual skill.

[Minischoles]

Speaking as someone in a top 10 EU guild - none of us give a shit about others reaching endgame. We're off in our own little bubble and we really don't mind what most players do with their time.
Those who do care are the forum elitists, the slow progress people who like to think of themselves as 'elite' - the same people who'll insist they cleared Naxx40, or did Firefighter pre-nerf when it's fairly clear they didn't.

My only complaint about the opening up of content is the many different difficulty modes we have now, and the effect that has had on the game. With so many different difficulty levels, we're seeing vast ilvl differences that make the entry barrier into the game absurd.
Take how it is currently, even if you pay to boost a character or have a ton of Timeless Gear, say you reach full timeless gear and get ilvl 496. You're still nearly 30-60 ivls below most long term players, that's a gear gap that's unassailable and it's because of the multiple difficulties - LFR, Normal, Flex, HM - and it doesn't look to be getting any better with WoD.

[Darmalus]

Well, in WoD it looks like heroic 5 mans and LFR will be the same ilvl. So there will only be 3 raid gear levels, Normal Heroic and Mythic.

I'm not sure what else can be done, since Blizzard feels there MUST be an ilvl jump of at least 13 ilvls between difficulty levels. Not sure Mythic raiders would be happy with the equivalent of CM gear, but I don't know how many Mythic raiders are in it for the gear and how many for the challenge.

[TheFeniX]

Part 2 of the blog is up. A couple of things concerning changes to raiding in Cata:

The feature was tremendously popular, and it allowed more players than ever before to experience the conclusion of an expansion’s major story arc, as millions of players defeated Deathwing, compared to the thousands that had defeated Kel’thuzad back in 2006.

Now, I don't know if this is off the cuff, but "thousands" defeating a boss central to the lore is pretty God damn low when you consider WoW subscriber numbers even now.

We learned a lot from Dragon Soul about how to design content for Raid Finder. We endeavored to preserve encounter mechanics where possible, but had to significantly adjust unforgiving abilities—especially those that allowed a single player’s mistake to result in the entire group’s failure.

No shit. Just Inferno Strike in LFR hits for like 300k, which is usually only half a DPSs health. So even the dumbest players can survive it and see the content. And personal loot was probably the best idea Blizz ever had when it came to LFR and Flex raiding. The Dragon Soul system wasn't terrible, but seeing a piece you could really use drop and knowing getting it was a crap's shoot at best was killer. Also, the "I'll buy that from you" shenanigans held up the almost glacial pace of the raid. Not that this doesn't happen when pugging raids.

And some new stuff on the WoD front:

PvP gear in Warlords will no longer have PvP-specific stats. Instead, it will scale up to a higher item level as soon as you enter a designated PvP area, such as an Arena or Battleground, or as soon as you enter PvP combat anywhere else in the world. If you’re out questing with PvP gear, your items’ base item level will be used while fighting back the Iron Horde, but the second that raiding Druid tries to gank you, your higher PvP item level kicks in and you’ll have the upper hand. Each piece of PvP gear will have its PvP item level displayed clearly on its tooltip, so there’s no guesswork involved.

So, we're back to LK where if you were on a PvP server, you quested in PvP gear. Except now we're in a state where your stats will change on the fly in WPvP? I can't put my finger on it, but this system does not seem like a good idea. It just blows chode years ago when I got into this game, the guild my buddy and I were supposed to join up with was on a PvP server.

The Resillience only PvP gear worked quite well. Yes it sometimes gimped classes that weren't meant to be hit and PvE heroes got mad they rolled on a PvP server and fought at a disadvantage in WPvP, but the new system doesn't seem to be anymore friendly, especially WRT to melee classes like Ret.

The Warlords of Draenor expansion will also bring some major improvements to the way PvP gear is earned. For starters, we’re vastly improving the bonus rewards you can earn from doing Random or Call to Arms Battlegrounds. At the end of a match, you’ll earn a Bronze, Silver, or Gold Strongbox—or possibly all three. Which Strongboxes you earn depends on how well your team did in the match, but you can still earn them even if your team doesn’t win.

Honor gear is very easy to come by in WoW, which is a good thing. But why copy SWTORs lotto box system when you don't have the atrocious reward system it had? I came in too late on MoP to really slam some PvP. I might consider pushing a rating in WoD now that I have 2 more 90s to pick based on how fun they are to play.

What actually burned me out of PvP in Cata wasn't that Frost DKs where pretty fucking strong (too strong) before 4.X (.2 I think) turned them into Necro Bots, it's that what you had to do to keep them viable using Death Strike at the expense of everything else. You could not afford to use any abilities that actually synergized (ugh) with the class, unless you were stuck at range and using Howling Blast to keep up pressure. It made wins easy as Hell in Arena and made you a beast in BGs, but it was so goddamn boring. Prot Pallies were so fun to PvP with back then, but everyone knew that wasn't going to last and was merely a byproduct of PvE balancing making them overtuned for PvP.

I'm thinking Rogue because Rogues do it from behind and now also (with the changes to backstab) from side-to-side as well.

[GuppyShark]

I rolled a rogue back when TBC hit just for the PVP but I enjoyed the class so much it became my main. The combo point system made even a stand-and-deliver fight interesting as there was a lot of depth to the system - I was rogue #2 in my guild, our top rogue almost always beat me on DPS even when I outgeared him, there was definately a strong skill element to playing the class well.

[Sharp-kun]

The feature was tremendously popular, and it allowed more players than ever before to experience the conclusion of an expansion’s major story arc, as millions of players defeated Deathwing, compared to the thousands that had defeated Kel’thuzad back in 2006.

Now, I don't know if this is off the cuff, but "thousands" defeating a boss central to the lore is pretty God damn low when you consider WoW subscriber numbers even now.

Kel'thuzad had a ridiculously stupid barrier in the form of the four horsemen (# of well geared tanks required) and to a lesser extent Saphiron (frost res).

I would not be surprised if thousands is accurate.

[TheFeniX]

I rolled a rogue back when TBC hit just for the PVP but I enjoyed the class so much it became my main. The combo point system made even a stand-and-deliver fight interesting as there was a lot of depth to the system - I was rogue #2 in my guild, our top rogue almost always beat me on DPS even when I outgeared him, there was definately a strong skill element to playing the class well.

Rogues right now are topping charts, but the go-to raid spec (Combat) is almost as mindlessly boring as DW Frost DK. Mut spec pushed ahead and is even worse due to Envenom refreshing SnD: it's a brain-dead DPS spec. Subtlety is hella fun though. The burst can be insane and you can usually pull way ahead of your gear depending on how well you manage Shadowdance, Vanish, Prep+Vanish to keep find weakness up for as long as possible. The problem is, positioning is paramount and you can't DPS without backstab, which is why I like the coming changes to it.

I would not be surprised if thousands is accurate.

Me neither. It just makes it even harder to justify the barriers to entry to older raid content when less than 1% of your playerbase can bother with certain content. Gearing 10-25 people off BiS just to down a boss is also a dumb idea, but I've seen more than a few "hardcore" guy try to justify it.

It's one of my big issues with the Legendary Cloak (even if it is BiS) in MoP: it creates a "timesink" filter pugs love to use when forming groups, inflates your iLvL, and gives you access to the chance at warforged gear. A lot of players take it as a sign of "skill" when it's really just "can you spam LFRs over and over and win 2 BGs over the course of 3 months). Imagine if SoO past.... Nazgrim required it in order to down the next boss. Yea, no.

[TheFeniX]

Sexy Nelfs, fangs added. Can't say I'm all that concerned, but the emphasis on female models is getting kind of chuckle worthy. I also like the ending comments of the article to be a "but we have a woman working on these sexy female models, so it's all ok" followed by "Hey, I'm a woman who does things. I like the things I do." Why not just have Tamara write the fucking article? Meh, maybe I'm just reading too much into things.

But, the whole circle-jerk of super-awesome artistic "stuff" is always worth a laugh. The models look good, don't get me wrong. But is cranking out some well-done 2008 model/texture work really something you need to play off as this huge time-consuming affair that requires entire teams to handle when some guy in his basement is cranking out much nicer stuff for free because he just loves breasts enough to make it worth his while (looking at you Skyrim modding community)?

Just get one of the less weird animators from the Elders Scrolls modding community to do a /facepalm emote in 2 hours using Blender. Day 1 purchase.

Anyways, Flex hit with another string of nerfs to the Garrosh fight. Probably getting ready to unload thousands of 548 heirlooms onto the masses. Wiped last week on Garrosh 10m at 0% (27mil). Words cannot express my disappointment, even though I rocked 330k. Warforged Quest givers also given more XP. Guess they were popular griefing targets like the Classic Flying trainers when cata popped. That said, I have stomped more than a few wayward Horde trying to kill her, and our server is still dead as Hell.

[TheFeniX]

Finally got that damned Garrosh kill and I didn't have to get carried, even though the group did. Did 310k as 3rd DPS under a 575 Rogue and 580 Tank. I consider that a win.

Anyways, model viewer updated with Male Tauren and Female Gnomes.

Also, Chopper-gate. I haven't watched the episode and in fact had to hear from a guildy about the whole thing. Basically, the Horde Chopper won by a landslide and now that mount will be made available in game to the faction that won. Alliance players are pissed that not only did the Alliance chopper look like shit, but there was about no way the Alliance was going to win the vote, even if the Horde Chopper was made out of dung. The vote was also botted to Hell and back with instructions being given in trade on how to do so. Although, botted is the wrong word, the vote site didn't track IPs, only cookies.....

And the more important point is the xmog belt on my Mage causing graphical issues since the tassels are an actual physics object and clip into the character model, causing them to stretch out across my entire screen when they do so. Oh and it looks nothing in-game like it does on the armory. How much money do they make off this game?

[Grumman]

Also, Chopper-gate. I haven't watched the episode and in fact had to hear from a guildy about the whole thing. Basically, the Horde Chopper won by a landslide and now that mount will be made available in game to the faction that won. Alliance players are pissed that not only did the Alliance chopper look like shit, but there was about no way the Alliance was going to win the vote, even if the Horde Chopper was made out of dung. The vote was also botted to Hell and back with instructions being given in trade on how to do so. Although, botted is the wrong word, the vote site didn't track IPs, only cookies.....

Clearly next time they should have both teams make an Alliance bike, and let people vote for the one that doesn't suck.

[Civil War Man]

Next time they should make it a contest where players submit designs for Warcraft-themed X, have the players vote on the best one, and then put the winner(s) into the game for everyone.

I would not be so insulting as to elevate this whole thing to the level of a -gate, but this whole Chopper this was a total debacle. It was meant to rally support for the two factions, but in the worst possible way, since only one side would get anything while the other got jack shit. And it even failed at that, since there was zero input from players on the design and it was pretty much a foregone conclusion which faction would win the vote. A lot of people speculated that they would relent and put both bikes in-game, because not doing that is moronic, but so far Blizzard has been sticking to their guns of only giving one faction a mount. On top of that, apparently with the exception of the devs on each team, most of the people working on the bikes don't even play WoW. And then on top of that, during the big reveal they admit that in-game model for the winning bike won't be ready until the Warlords of Draenor release, when they hadn't even started sending out Alpha Test invites at that point. So anyone who closely followed the whole Azeroth Choppers series has basically just been watching the devs jack off. A common theme over at Scrolls of Lore is that one or more of the lead devs are going through a mid-life crisis and that they are building these EPIC CHOPPERZ to scratch that itch.

And the cherry on top of this whole thing is that Orange County Choppers did their own unofficial choppers, and in my honest opinion did a much better job with them.
OCC "Good Guy Bike"
OCC "Bad Guy Bike"

[TheFeniX]

I've finally taken some time to actually look at some pictures of both bikes. Now, I could sit here and ask stupid questions like "what do scimitars have to do with the Alliance" and "Where is the blue?" and just pick the thing apart. But what's really telling to me, the Horde bike looks like something Garrosh would ride. But the Alliance bike captures nothing about Varian Wyrnn.

The Paladins don't even really exist as a force in the Alliance anymore (at least as far as I can see) as they're all busy doing neutral stuff. So, why channel that knight in shining armor shit?

And the cherry on top of this whole thing is that Orange County Choppers did their own unofficial choppers, and in my honest opinion did a much better job with them.
OCC "Good Guy Bike"
OCC "Bad Guy Bike"

Take the stupid spikes off the red bike along with the goat skull: I would get a class M for it and I don't even care for choppers all that much.

[Lord Revan]

The Paladins don't even really exist as a force in the Alliance anymore (at least as far as I can see) as they're all busy doing neutral stuff. So, why channel that knight in shining armor shit?

You've seen what Stormwind footmen look like right? Also while while Order of the Silver Hand isn't officially part of the alliance Paladins still are a major cultural symbol for Stormwind and a major political force within the Draenei. Also the Brotherhood of the Horse seems to have been reformed at some point after Warcraft 1 as Stormwind has non-paladin knights as well maing the "Knight in shining armor" being the only unifying theme the Alliance has as it's shared By both Stormwind and Draenei (with a bit of a scifi/anime twist but still), while the look of the dwarves, gnomes, Night Elves and Gilneas is unique to them.

Remember that the Emblem of the Alliance is the coat of Arms of the Kingdom of Stormwind so they're culture and look you first think when you think of "Alliance", same way when you first think of "Horde" is think of Orcish look and culture and not for example Blood Elven culture and look even though the Sin'dorei are just as much part of the Horde as the Orcs.

[TheFeniX]

You've seen what Stormwind footmen look like right?

Yea, they look like footman wearing standard plate. They look like soldiers. In fact, a lot of expansion stuff has gone away from the shiny. Now, you can claim something like lawbringer set just doesn't translate well into ~2010 graphics, nor do many of the old PvP/PvE sets. But as I look around Alliance areas, this polished mirror plate stuff just isn't around anymore and really doesn't fit the theme of the Alliance. Admiral Taylor is the only NPC I can recall off-hand who really rocks that stuff, and there's still more gold and blue than silver.

Also while while Order of the Silver Hand isn't officially part of the alliance Paladins still are a major cultural symbol for Stormwind and a major political force within the Draenei. Also the Brotherhood of the Horse seems to have been reformed at some point after Warcraft 1 as Stormwind has non-paladin knights as well maing the "Knight in shining armor" being the only unifying theme the Alliance has as it's shared By both Stormwind and Draenei (with a bit of a scifi/anime twist but still), while the look of the dwarves, gnomes, Night Elves and Gilneas is unique to them.

There's been no notable Paladins in WoW since LK and they were neutral. Yes, the Alliance has Paladins, but mostly in the form of Player Characters. And PCs in WoW don't get to write lore. Meanwhile, just for one example: relevant Horde Shamans? Oh yea, they got those covered.

Remember that the Emblem of the Alliance is the coat of Arms of the Kingdom of Stormwind so they're culture and look you first think when you think of "Alliance", same way when you first think of "Horde" is think of Orcish look and culture and not for example Blood Elven culture and look even though the Sin'dorei are just as much part of the Horde as the Orcs.

Yea, ok so, where's the blue on the chopper? Where's the gold? Where's the contrast? There's some blue and gold trim, that's it. The rest is, what I assume, highly polished steel. Like, the entire fucking bike: He couldn't even get the crest of the front right. Not only is it ugly, as I said, it captures nothing about the current Alliance, maybe not even the original Alliance. Meanwhile, there's so many elements of the Horde bike that fit with the Horde.

The Alliance bike isn't an Alliance bike, it's a "generic fantasy kingdom" bike (channeling Horde b.net poster there) with a poorly done Alliance crest on the front. I could throw a Lannister crest on the front instead and claim it's a Game of Thrones bike it's so damned generic.