STGOD: A Dead Art?

[Imperial Overlord]

The only one that has sent me a clear timeline is Dark Hellion at this point. I have PM exchanges and "I was only slightly involved" dance from those that have PM'd me so far.

I asked for clear chronologies of actions to the best of the player's knowledges.

I am not getting them.

This is not making me a happy mod.

[Starglider]

AFAIK, this is what happened (OOC):

1 ) I lay an anomaly minefield along Acidburn's border facing Dark Hellion, because it seemed like the most vulnerable one.
2 ) Eight of Rhoenix's ships get teleported to Acidburn's far border and stuck in the anomalies, due to a misunderstanding regarding their location.
3 ) I get a mod warning of eight unknown ships inbound and make the first main thread post.
4 ) Rhoenix points out that they are in fact his ships and we'll have to deal with that.
5 ) ISU ships flying out to intercept, but the eight ships cloak before the intercepting ships get there.
6 ) UCBooties flies in and blows up several of Acidburn's outposts, which have actually been stripped of personnel and anything valuable.
7 ) Kiroter'nah ships fly back to intercept those ships but they also get away.
8 ) The Chamara ship in orbit over the NGTO council site starts jamming the Herald probe (along with the planetary defence net), then grabs it with a tractor beam.
9 ) It blows up. No one is terribly surprised.
10 ) Switching to plan B, the Chamara ship deploys a rough copy of the probe and drags it down into the atmosphere with a tractor beam.
11 ) The Chamara ship pretends to miss a few times then blows up the decoy.
12 ) Computer records are wiped or altered by advanced ISU AI. Some memories are altered by Chamara psionics.
13 ) A message is sent to the NGTO representatives at earth, which gets there fairly fast since it's direct and at +20 comms.
14 ) The fact that the probe suddenly stopped transmitting becomes apparent to the Herald homeworld, probably around the time that the news Acidburns is complaining about being attacked does.
15 ) The Heralds send a message to their earth emissary telling them that they lost contact with the probe, that ships are flying around all over the place on the Nephilim border, and that's all they know.
16 ) A fleet starts to build up in Nephilim space.

This has been explained to Dark Hellion several times over by Darkevilme, myself and I believe several other players. The events relating to his probe have already been modified at his request, and I believe everyone involved would be happy to accommodate any other sensible suggestions. In retrospect we really should've warned him OOC, but we were trying to RP our way out of having Rhoenix's ships suddenly appear the way they did.

[Imperial Overlord]

This could have been avoided or easily retconned if you had been more forthcoming. rhoenix told me his ships were going to participate in joint fleet maneuvers around Nephilim space and nothing else about his route or destination. He got placed where fleet maneuvers were occurring in Nephilim space.

I still don't have a full list of participants.

Rushed, large scale multinational coalitions moving a lot of stuff around tends to set off alarm bells in every watching intelligence agency. You should have posted a lot more in the main game threads or to a mod for those reasons alone.

[Starglider]

An edit to the above: Dark Hellion states that his probe was actually in deep space. The best explanation is that another NGTO ship decloaked and blasted the probe (I volunteer the K.O.S.C. Euthaniser, which was in the area). The Chamara ship did the run with the decoy separately, probably from further out, though the records may just have been retrospectively altered to show the Herald probe incoming from the outer solar system. If Dark Hellion would like to have the probe get a signal off to the effect of 'help being shot at... (static)', that sounds fine to me.

The incident with Rhoenix's ships is not the fault of Imperial Overlord, apparently he did not get sufficiently detailed descriptions of where everyone was operating.

[Spyder]

Incidentally, I PM'd Thirdfain a full explanation of events surrounding that freighter. Just so everyone knows I'm not making it up as I go along.

[Imperial Overlord]

Okay from what I can tell the following is occurring:

1) a bunch of nations got together and decided to manufacture incidents to whack on Hellion.

2) they faked hostile fleet movements, stripping and blowing up some old outposts, and a dangerous probe to frame him. They blew up the fake probe, so despite it probably not at all matching one of Hellion's the fact that it is in tiny pieces and their governments are lying through their teeth it should still work internally. Telepathic memory alteration and records alteration are done to seal the deal.

3) There have been very rapid fleet movements by a number of powers and extensive communications both before and during the incident. Anyone competent intelligence agency watching the participants probably knows the fix is in, although the wargames do provide decent cover. Dark Hellion with +50 foreign intel and knowing it isn't he isn't doing any of this stuff certainly knows the fix is in.

Anyone want to argue with this or have comments or corrections?

[Hotfoot]

Incidentally, I PM'd Thirdfain a full explanation of events surrounding that freighter. Just so everyone knows I'm not making it up as I go along.

For the record, it's usually a good idea to inform more than one mod, especially if one of them has said he wouldn't be on much for the next few weeks, like Thirdfain did.

And I think that applies to everyone. Also, don't just PM stuff. Actions should be Overt unless you specifically have mod approval/interaction. Anyone found metagaming will be punished later.

[rhoenix]

3) There have been very rapid fleet movements by a number of powers and extensive communications both before and during the incident. Anyone competent intelligence agency watching the participants probably knows the fix is in, although the wargames do provide decent cover. Dark Hellion with +50 foreign intel and knowing it isn't he isn't doing any of this stuff certainly knows the fix is in.

The only thing I would raise objection to is that the fleet movements weren't meant to be rapid - taking at least a week, perhaps more of game time to get the entire fleet assembled for awe-inspiring camera angles as it stands now.

[Imperial Overlord]

3) There have been very rapid fleet movements by a number of powers and extensive communications both before and during the incident. Anyone competent intelligence agency watching the participants probably knows the fix is in, although the wargames do provide decent cover. Dark Hellion with +50 foreign intel and knowing it isn't he isn't doing any of this stuff certainly knows the fix is in.

The only thing I would raise objection to is that the fleet movements weren't meant to be rapid - taking at least a week, perhaps more of game time to get the entire fleet assembled for awe-inspiring camera angles as it stands now.

That is rapid. FTL travel isn't overnight in this game.

That means there is no debate whether or not to send in a fleet. The fleet is just sent.

No diplomacy is being done, or consideration of the evidence or strategy (yes they undoubtedly have plans locked away somewhere. Having the plan and deciding to use it can take time). The fleets are told to assemble and then dispatched.

That is quite fast and screams "manufactured incident and prepared response" to me.

[Starglider]

The only thing I would raise objection to is that the fleet movements weren't meant to be rapid - taking at least a week, perhaps more of game time to get the entire fleet assembled for awe-inspiring camera angles as it stands now.

Indeed. Some of the ships are coming from earlier exercises in TGA space, some are coming from their home systems. I suppose the mechanics question is whether the attack starts at the end of this 'turn' or the start of the next one, since that determines whether new ships will be built in time to fight in it.

That is quite fast and screams "manufactured incident and prepared response" to me.

Oh absolutely. Even internally, I have no doubt there will be some amusing RP in the near future as the conspirators start to get uncovered. Still, at least stuff is actually going to start blowing up now.

[Dark Hellion]

Umm... Starglider, we haven't worked this probe thing out at all yet. I am still very upset about what is going on, and I am still waiting for you guys to suggest some real solutions. I have been willing to lose about 1/5 of my factions fighting power, despite the fact that I am the one getting screwed over here. So far, you haven't made a single real compromise, you have just rationalized out your course of actions, taken without any consent or advicement from me. I am not posting to call hits until we deal with this.

[Imperial Overlord]

Umm... Starglider, we haven't worked this probe thing out at all yet. I am still very upset about what is going on, and I am still waiting for you guys to suggest some real solutions. I have been willing to lose about 1/5 of my factions fighting power, despite the fact that I am the one getting screwed over here. So far, you haven't made a single real compromise, you have just rationalized out your course of actions, taken without any consent or advicement from me. I am not posting to call hits until we deal with this.

So far as I know they have only posted blowing up one probe of yours near their planet. Which seems well within their abilities, no matter how they bungled their execution. They then blow up some of their own stuff and your AI brains crunch the numbers and realize things are going down hill. They are still amassing their fleets at this moment in time. That's how things will stand unless I hear reasons to do something differently.

[Academia Nut]

So that there are no misunderstandings, the current pirate hunting expedition I and Imperial Overlord have engaged in will be for NPC pirates and will be nowhere near Bootswellington space, got that UCBooties? We're not gunning for you yet.

[Spyder]

Incidentally, I PM'd Thirdfain a full explanation of events surrounding that freighter. Just so everyone knows I'm not making it up as I go along.

For the record, it's usually a good idea to inform more than one mod, especially if one of them has said he wouldn't be on much for the next few weeks, like Thirdfain did.

And I think that applies to everyone. Also, don't just PM stuff. Actions should be Overt unless you specifically have mod approval/interaction. Anyone found metagaming will be punished later.

With the way I've set my empire up it's probably better I don't be overt and rely on people not to metagame, every time I action something we'll be slogging through metagaming cases from now until the real Poland becomes a space empire. It'll be one retcon after another.

Just look at what happens with the meagre details I do drip feed. A distress signal from a commercial freighter gets intercepted and one nation suddenly deploys a war fleet and mobilizes their spy network and another shows up and says "Hey Starborn, what's up?"

I chose Thirdfain because I trust him not to metagame and he's not directly involved in the incident. I could also send it through to Nitram but I thought seeming as he was there he might enjoy the mystery for the time being.

[Darkevilme]

Dark hellion, again i must be the bearer of bad news. IC'ly you have no true allies, the coalition is not going to save you as they're not a mutual defence pact and you have the whole staged evidence with the blown up stations, phantom ships and fake probe against you. So there is no magic relief fleet coming. Next point, cause yes it gets worse, there is no way after mobilizing the grand armada the NGTO is going to be waging anything but total war on you. Finally from the IC side, 1/5 of your power is nothing, certainly ridiculous in light of the big bad fleet.

OOC side now, whining is not good, nor is constantly lying that we haven't consulted you or talked to you or told you what's going on when you asked us.

whew i'm sorry just had to get it off my chest.

Oh and as an addendum, we suggested the reprogramming thing as a valid result, you ignored it, stop lying that we didn't suggest anything.

[Dark Hellion]

Fuck off Dark you asshole. You blew up MY fucking probe without informing me, manufactured an incident on MY boarder without informing me, and are now using it as Causus Belli for total war. This is a OOC conspiracy of the highest order, and exactly what mods are here to avoid happening. I am officially renewing my request for a total retcon of all this fleet build up. Had they coresponded with me, they would have known that the probe was seriously smaller than a Cap ship missile, located in deep space, and designed to Self-destruct if attacked or if capture attempts were made. With the way communication times are, I would only lag behind a few hours on the info, and I have the benefit of total transperancy on my side. I can show completely unedited data to the Coalition, where as you can't, and do you think that your allies are going to stay with you when they realize that it is a fake? Besides the fact that I am supposed to have a treaty of friendship with the U.S.A that you guys have completely interrupted and fucked up because you never gave me a chance to take the short recess from the Coalition thread that was needed to do so.

Your inevitability speech is fucking bullshit, and you know it. It is only inevitable because you never gave me a chance to respond, and never gave me a chance for damage control. I didn't know what really happened until 4 fucking PM today, despite this event happening over 2 days ago real time and is directed entirely against me.

Fuck off and die jackass.

[Imperial Overlord]

All further posting regarding this matter should be in OOC and game threads for clarity. No secrecy at all on this mess.

And Dark Hellion, they can gang up and frame you. Even if they do a crappy job of it.

[SirNitram]

The 'People are manipulating events to declare war!' spiel won't actually get you anywhere. It happens in real life.

[Dark Hellion]

I don't mind that at all SirNitram. But their continued pretense that they have some Huge, Irrefutable case for war is total bullshit and any and every faction with high intelligence scores should see this instantly. And how do they expect to maintain a 7 or 8 faction allied fleet when they find that the reasons for war are a lie, and they are fighting a faction who has civilization survival as its highest priority over personal safety, with absolutely fanatical and highly competant military forces who are going to make them pay for every inch of ground or space? I just want them to acknowledge that this is the far more logical possibility, and I would like to be able to retcon the Treaty of Friendship with the U.S.A that I discussed with Hawkwings on Sunday, before this whole fiasco started.

[SirNitram]

Their case for war is entirely IC. Deal with it in the in-game thread. And since you're hardly giving an ironclad reason for the retcon...

[Dark Hellion]

My case for the Retcon with Hawkwings goes like this. Had they contacted me about this event, I would have explained the details of the probe to them. They could have then discussed with me doing exactly what they are doing. We would have worked it out and the events would have transpired similarly to what had happened. However, I would have asked them to allow me to RP my already scripted event with Hawkwings before hand. As they did not consult me, I did not get the chance to RP with Hawkwings before this whole fiasco happened. Had they followed proper protocol, I would have had the RP completed, and as they did not follow proper protocol, I should not be punished for their mistakes.

[SirNitram]

'Proper Protocol'?

[Dark Hellion]

Informing involved parties or mods about actions in game that affect other parties.

[Starglider]

A couple of things.

We did indeed open up an IM room and Dark Hellion came in and clarified that his probe must have been destroyed in deep space, then stated that he was prepared to accept the loss of one planet and 20% of his fleet before the 3800pt attacking armada and four players worth of ground armies ran away in defeat. He also made it clear that he expected to be rapidly rebuilding and have 'massive political capital' after this victory.

Crossroads then suggested that after blowing away a reasonable chunk of the Herald fleet and landing some ground forces, a combination of Nephilim and ISU AI assets might be able to hack into the Heralds enough to reprogram them to be a bit more sane, thus allowing Dark Hellion to stay in the game. Frankly the alternative looks like a glorious death by some combination of orbital bombardment and massive ground invasions. The invaders will of course have to answer for all this, but that's where the game gets really lively.

No one involved has anything personal against the player of course, the Heralds are just the most obvious target to get things moving. It'll take a fair while to get that huge fleet moving, so certainly you should go ahead with any RP involving possible allies and claiming you're being framed.

[Acidburns]

Come on, I know your a pissed cause your ebil robot race is gonna get wiped, but are things really going to be different with a retcon? You'll just be set up again, better, slower.

It's not about winning, or even surviving, its a creative writing exercise. Unfortunatly we're all here cause we like shit blowing up and not hugs and kisses, so someones gonna get blown up. Surrender... or go out with a bang, bright shortly but brightly. I want to shed a tear as the last Herald Emmissary expires, a last salute as he raises his plasma cannon to the sky to the God-Machines of Xyxlx know that his race will never match their glory. Or something like that.