NO SPOILARZ - THE GTA IV THREAD

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

Well I just ran into my first real frustration with the controls in the mission at the Old Hospital - I take out the drug dealers just fine, but I've gotten wasted both times the cops have showed up - the auto-lock feature is just plain broken in close quarters, and gamepad controllers, as ever, are fucking retarded for free-aim. I don't know how you put up with it, really.

Fuck knows how I'm going to beat this mission really.

Don't fight the cops. Do what I did, and high tail it back to your vehicle, and get the fuck out of Dodge.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Take your time leaving the hospital. Keep in cover, pick them off with pistols. If anyone tries running up to you just pull out your shotgun and blind fire.

[Stark]

Ok, new hate; utterly idiotic ally AI that dates from 1998.

I've been trying the boatyard mission, that has 5 minutes of boring driving a car and a truck across half the city, /then/ a shoot-out, then a boat chase where you have to take out two pursuers while protecting your ally. Here's what happened so far...

Ironically, in that mission I expected Tony Soprano to get killed (I hope we all noticed he runs in like a madman while you're SMG sniping them all from in cover at the door) but he didn't. He complained a few times, but once you're out the back it triggers the boat sequence and it's easy.

Aside from the camera foreshortening the view, I don't really have any complaints about the driving. It's hard to drive if you suck, the e-brake isn't the controlled turn button anymore, and crap cars are terrible. It's fine to me; things like the Banshee are both fast and stick to the road like glue.

With regard to wanted levels, switching cars appears to have some affect on the timer once you're out of the search area. If you get out and switch to another car without being seen by a cop, you seem to almost immediately lose the stars. Not very useful at 4+ stars, but there's something going on there. The side-of-the-road cops don't seem to be able to ID you as easily if you change cars, even in the search area, which makes escaping the higher levels much easier (without random spawning beat cops constantly recentering the circle).

And the cover system 'sight lock' isn't just in autoaim, which shits me: if you're in cover, the camera 'likes' to force you to look 'around' the cover - if you're tracking a guy who's coming towards you (or around the cover) the camera tends to turn back to an 'around the corner' angle, thus resulting in your death. It doesn't help that the locks can't decide if they're locking off Niko's facing or the camera's facing; it appears to be 'whatever fucks the player up more'.

Vympel, the hospital mission is easy. Dress up like a doctor, kill the guy quietly, then run like a bastard. With armour you'll easily survive the 4ish cops shooting at you.

[Starglider]

And honestly, the whole UK rendered in a game to explore with the same amazing content added to it? Are you willing to wait two decades for that?

GTA:SA theoretically covered the 'whole' of California, which is two thirds the size of the UK. It worked just fine; the idea is to capture flavour, not real geography. All you would need is one large city (London), three or four smaller cities and assorted countryside.

I do agree with Stark that the amount of scripted shit in the later car chases is getting ridiculous. Cars are invulnerable and on semi-rubberband AI until the scripted events run out, at which point they suddenly become vulnerable. In GTA:SA, all the scripters who fancied themselves movie directors were told to go work on the rail shooter segments, where all the contrived crap actually looked cool. In GTA4, you get 'this route is blocked, go around', i.e. 'a ton of crap fell on your car and you're screwed, please replay the whole mission and avoid this alleyway next time'. Memorising levels in order to beat them really should've died in the 90s.

Also, first major glitch, did the abandoned Sprunk factory mission but the final boss was just standing their frozen. I pumped a few hundred rounds into him and a couple of RPG rounds, but no, still completely unharmed (albeit on fire); I had to reload a save. This is why 'an unreasonable number of hp' is better than 'completely invulnerable' even if you're a neurotic control-freak scripter terrified that the player might miss some of your precious content.

Vympel, the hospital mission is easy.

Not the hospital mission near the end, he's on the drug hideout bust about half way through, where you fight through an abandoned building to collect the drugs then fight a SWAT team on the way out.

[Vympel]

I've got to say the camera whilst driving is frustrating for me too - it feels wrong, somehow, totally unilke how it was in III/VC/SA, so I'm continually using the right stick to sling the camera higher - which is frustrating because I have to keep doing it.

Take your time leaving the hospital. Keep in cover, pick them off with pistols. If anyone tries running up to you just pull out your shotgun and blind fire.

I think I'm having bad luck more than anything else. If those cops weren't getting in my face so this:-

[quote4)Died when a target got close, the targeting refused to lock, and the enemy SMGed me to death at leisure. [/quote]

Drove through a toll booth, didn't pay the $5, cops ram me into a traffic jam killing half a dozen people. Police in the game are either "off" and do nothing or "on" and in full-on Robocop everything must DIE! mode. There's no escalation of force except for bringing in more cops and SWAT (NOOSE?) teams. Whatever happened to PIT manoeuvres?

Really? I find the cops on 1-star to be completely harmless. They won't chase you at all, really, and if they do, they're not out to kill you. Their attempts at ramming at 1-star are anemic.

[Stark]

Not the hospital mission near the end, he's on the drug hideout bust about half way through, where you fight through an abandoned building to collect the drugs then fight a SWAT team on the way out.

Yeah, I forgot I'd finished the game! LOL!

The abandoned building level was also easy. Cover + freeaim = headshots = you win. The gun combat is generally so easy the 'a guy got beside you so you can't lock them, see them or shoot them but they killed you' thing stands out as really frustrating. Again, I only killed maybe the first 3-4 swatties before just legging it back over to the carpark; they're horrible shots, unlike the REAL swatties you get from 4 stars.

Hey Starglider, that Sprunk mission was fucking horrible. He's a great case of Mr Invincible before you get up there, and then there's the 'exciting' escape. The best part for me was there was a guy standing on the level UNDER him, but the lock wouldn't switch to him and I couldn't see him (as my dude was in the way) so I got wasted the first time I tried. Second time I carpeted the roof with nades before I went up there and hoped the cutscene didn't glitch.

I just want to remind everyone that this is a 10/10 100% perfect game.

[RogueIce]

With regard to wanted levels, switching cars appears to have some affect on the timer once you're out of the search area. If you get out and switch to another car without being seen by a cop, you seem to almost immediately lose the stars. Not very useful at 4+ stars, but there's something going on there. The side-of-the-road cops don't seem to be able to ID you as easily if you change cars, even in the search area, which makes escaping the higher levels much easier (without random spawning beat cops constantly recentering the circle).

I've actually wanted to try out a few things with the search grid, like swiping a car unseen, then driving back to see if they automatically recognize you. I'd also be interested in ditching my car that they know I have and running to a hiding place, then seeing what happens if they find my now abandoned car.

Anyway, I like the new system. You really can kill people in a back alley and get away with it. And they are a bit smarter. I killed the guy behind the counter in the internet cafe and the other people ran out to call the cops. One cop runs in and I kill him pretty easy. Well I wait in there for awhile, and see police cars zooming about outside and think that maybe they just missed me or something.

That is until six cops came bursting inside and lit my ass up.

A similar thing happened when I was fucking around with cheat codes and shot up a bunch of cops by the waterfront, and downed a police chopper with an RPG. I managed to run away and get into a back alley somewhere, with a new chopper overhead. I tried to down it but could never get a good angle. I had quite awhile back there and figured they had lost me (this was before my internet cafe shootout) but again, they were apparently just marshalling their forces because about seven or eight SWAT guys came in at once and just gutted me.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's pretty funny hearing all these sob stories over bad shooting and driving. Maybe I'm just such a damn good playa and not a hater, LOL.

Honestly, scripted events = dumb, but necessary. Otherwise, relying on the lazy ass function of auto-aim is pretty hilarious. Now I'm used to the camera, I find driving whilst being able to shift the POV to be better than previous games now.

[RogueIce]

It's pretty funny hearing all these sob stories over bad shooting and driving. Maybe I'm just such a damn good playa and not a hater, LOL.

Honestly, scripted events = dumb, but necessary. Otherwise, relying on the lazy ass function of auto-aim is pretty hilarious. Now I'm used to the camera, I find driving whilst being able to shift the POV to be better than previous games now.

I can see the scripting events thing. I mean really, would the final mission for Vlad have been as good if you could ram his car off three blocks from the bar?

The driving really depends on the car. One thing I like though is the LCPD Impala type. I've done that Bourne Ultimatum 180 movie so many times with that thing, and it never gets old.

One thing I wish is that the police car spotlights worked. I don't know what use they'd have in this game, but given the multiplayer with Free Play and everything else, the machinima possibilities of this game are great (especially when it gets to PC, assuming MP features are kept) and police car spotlights (and the choppers too, but I haven't hijacked one of those yet aside from the Blackhawk ones via cheats) would add an element to that.

[Stark]

Oh jesus. Did someone just call a Knight Rider turn a 'Bourne Ultimatum turn'? Dear lord.

Wait, people are cheating?

[RogueIce]

Oh jesus. Did someone just call a Knight Rider turn a 'Bourne Ultimatum turn'? Dear lord.

Sorry if we're not all fans of old '80s TV shows.

Wait, people are cheating?

I long ago ditched that for story missions, but it's still fun to punch in some cheats and go fuck around (then reload when you want to go do something for real).

Of course I now have to remember to turn off AutoSave, just in case, but oh well.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I have to admit, when I'm in the Infiniti like taxi cab, I feel almost like I'm Bourne. I even did the proven tactic of reversing off a building to evade capture at one point (I fell through the windscreen, caught fire then 'sploded. They never showed that in Ultimatum).

[Stark]

I long ago ditched that for story missions, but it's still fun to punch in some cheats and go fuck around (then reload when you want to go do something for real).

Of course I now have to remember to turn off AutoSave, just in case, but oh well.

Yeah, I've turned off autosave too; there's nothing left to do but fuck around. The idea that I'd need more ammo or whatever than is freely available is just terrifying.

And bad action movies appropriating maneuvers that are as old as prohibition = lame.

[Starglider]

Otherwise, relying on the lazy ass function of auto-aim is pretty hilarious.

Manual aiming doesn't help with the 'target got too close to you' issue. Under some conditions you can hammer the fire button and nothing happens expect for some spastic twitching.

Now I'm used to the camera, I find driving whilst being able to shift the POV to be better than previous games now.

The only good thing about the camera controls is the fact that you can easily shoot the SMG in any direction while driving. Of course this is a trap; it makes you believe that you're supposed to shoot at the target car in the 'chase and destroy' missions, when in fact they're invulnerable until they have a scripted crash. But it's nice for the boat fights.

I mean really, would the final mission for Vlad have been as good if you could ram his car off three blocks from the bar?

Yes. The solution would be to give him some escort cars that you'd have to fight through to get to him. Of course, this is another thing that requires good enemy AI and thus probably wasn't available in the release timeframe.

and police car spotlights (and the choppers too, but I haven't hijacked one of those yet aside from the Blackhawk ones via cheats)

GTA:SA had player-usable spotlights on the police choppers. I expect GTA4 doesn't.

[RogueIce]

So is it just me or do cars no longer automatically explode when flipped upside down? Granted I don't think you can flip the thing back over and drive off (and really I've found it a lot more uncommon to flip over and stay that way compared to past GTA games) but I haven't seen them catch fire and explode yet.

Also, I love the attention to detail (I know, I know, dead horse). The individual emergency lights on the police cars can get shot off (and I'm assuming if I roll it the whole lightbar will get smashed, like the taxi roof ads and such).

[Starglider]

Also, I love the attention to detail (I know, I know, dead horse). The individual emergency lights on the police cars can get shot off (and I'm assuming if I roll it the whole lightbar will get smashed, like the taxi roof ads and such).

That isn't so much 'attention to detail' as 'comes for free when you have a decent physics engine and car component model'. The basic GTA4 engine is sound; that's why I'm looking forward to the first 'refined' GTA game R* makes with it.

[RogueIce]

Yeah, I've turned off autosave too; there's nothing left to do but fuck around. The idea that I'd need more ammo or whatever than is freely available is just terrifying.

Well you have to keep in mind, I've been playing off a friend's Xbox with a rented copy of the game (which had to go back today ) so I haven't really had the opportunity to even unlock the second island yet, let alone build up a legitimate arsenal.

GTA:SA had player-usable spotlights on the police choppers. I expect GTA4 doesn't.

Which only turned on at night. I never really saw the ability to control them though.

GTAIV lets you turn on headlights during the day now. I have no idea what kind of use that is, but it's there. It'd be nice if you could turn them off at night (rather than having to smash your front end to do it) but oh well. Maybe next game...

[Admiral Valdemar]

Manual aiming doesn't help with the 'target got too close to you' issue. Under some conditions you can hammer the fire button and nothing happens expect for some spastic twitching.

Point blank range firing is a piece of piss. But I don't know about you, I try and avoid letting anyone get within five metres of me if I can help it. Not had any problems with CQC battles though.

GTA:SA had player-usable spotlights on the police choppers. I expect GTA4 doesn't.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they do. I'd have to check again, it wasn't really something I cared for. Anyway, even if not, GTA IV has a lot more to offer. I'll leave the sucky plot and protagonist with ZOMG TARGATABLE SPOTLITE ACTIONNS for now.

I really wish I could record some of my best deaths. Being able to plough through several squad cars and brave the SWAT raining fire on me... only to then have what's left of my life taken by a guy in a scooter bumping into me at 10 MPH is comedy gold.

And I'll never tire of the fly-through-windscreen-becoming-Swiss-cheese-before-hitting-ground death.

On attention to detail (which truly is good enough to jerk off to), I like how a hard landing can bend axles too, rather than just pop tyres. I wondered why my Esperanto (don't laugh) was skewing to the right when the tyres were fire. Bloody wheel was nearly coming off.

[RogueIce]

That isn't so much 'attention to detail' as 'comes for free when you have a decent physics engine and car component model'. The basic GTA4 engine is sound; that's why I'm looking forward to the first 'refined' GTA game R* makes with it.

I'll admit I am no l33t programmer, but even with the 'decent physics engine and care component model' they still had to take the time to add in "police lights break when shot" and so on. Instead of just having them indestructible like they used to be.

One thing I'm curious to try is to see what happens with the light effect if you do shoot off all the lights and turn on the siren. I never did try that and I won't have the chance to do so for awhile.

[Starglider]

I'll leave the sucky plot and protagonist

Is that really relevant when people here are going LOL I FINISHED THE STORYLINE IN 634 MINUTES WHAT NOW? and OMG THE MULTIPLAYER IS THE AWESOME PART? Tons of fun little stuff to do and world variety are what matters for long term value.

[Stark]

I'm actually glad they dropped so much functionality from SA. The only thing I really miss are the dragons teeth. The cops CAN attack choppers with choppers, but the AI is very poor - even gunships will hover side-on to you and let the guy in back try to bring you down instead of using the miniguns unlike in SA where the choppers were extremely aggressive. The cop choppers also can't keep up with you - they appear to have 'search for ground targets' behaviour and that's it.

[Admiral Valdemar]

When you go to the lengths they went to to make a full Internet and TV station network to go with the radio stations, I think that kind of thing was just to be expected. They have the raw processor power and engine to do it, so why not?

[RogueIce]

I'm actually glad they dropped so much functionality from SA. The only thing I really miss are the dragons teeth. The cops CAN attack choppers with choppers, but the AI is very poor - even gunships will hover side-on to you and let the guy in back try to bring you down instead of using the miniguns unlike in SA where the choppers were extremely aggressive. The cop choppers also can't keep up with you - they appear to have 'search for ground targets' behaviour and that's it.

On that note, on the above mentioned "trying to down second chopper with RPG" thing, I did try to take out the gunner with my sniper rifle to see if it could be done. Alas, the SWAT team showed up and filleted me before I could shoot him.

[Stark]

If they dropped a lot of stuff, the swatties are now WAY more dangerous. In the older games they were just slightly more durable cops and stealing a swat van was easy - now they're psychos and stealing a swat van is so hard I've only done it once (in MP when they showed up for someone else, no less).

[Admiral Valdemar]

If they dropped a lot of stuff, the swatties are now WAY more dangerous. In the older games they were just slightly more durable cops and stealing a swat van was easy - now they're psychos and stealing a swat van is so hard I've only done it once (in MP when they showed up for someone else, no less).

This is true. The first time I came across them I thought "I'm having that van" and as soon as I stopped to try and ambush them, they shredded me on the spot. I didn't even get a shot off. If it had been GTA III, I'd have been able to run up and hijack the van with minimal trouble. Hell, the tank was easy enough to get that way if you knew how.