WoW: Warlords of Draenor

[Civil War Man]

Part of the problem is that the Horde races are a lot more similar to each other than the Alliance races. Yes, the Forsaken and Blood Elves in particular don't really blend in well with the spikes and animal skins aesthetic, but the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls do. Even the Goblins can pull it off if there's enough tech lying around.

Compare that to the Alliance. Gnomes revolve around high tech. Night Elves around forests. Draenei aesthetics are all about aliens and crystals. Worgen are either nature-centric like Night Elves, or Victorian steampunk if you emphasize the Gilneas connection. The only races with a more knightly aesthetic are the Stormwind Humans and the Dwarves, and even then there's a pretty noticeable difference between the Camelot-esque knights-in-shining-armor of the Humans and the Mountain Kings in expansive underground cities of the Dwarves.

I think that's the main difference. Basing all of the Horde's aesthetics on the Orcs does leave out several races, but not nearly to the same degree as basing all Alliance aesthetics on Stormwind Humans.

And that's not getting into the massive problems with creating an Alliance that is ruled over by the King of one of its member states. In a position that Blizzard has implied is hereditary, no less, going so far as to even call Anduin Wrynn the Crown Prince of the Alliance on at least one occasion before quietly deleting the reference following Alliance player complaints. That's not an Alliance. That's a Hegemony at best.

[TheFeniX]

Part of the problem is that the Horde races are a lot more similar to each other than the Alliance races. Yes, the Forsaken and Blood Elves in particular don't really blend in well with the spikes and animal skins aesthetic, but the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls do. Even the Goblins can pull it off if there's enough tech lying around.

I see the Horde bike as more a Garrosh bike. But at least that makes some sense.

I think that's the main difference. Basing all of the Horde's aesthetics on the Orcs does leave out several races, but not nearly to the same degree as basing all Alliance aesthetics on Stormwind Humans.

If they had just stolen Varian's color palette and mimicked some of his armor aesthetics, I might agree. But the Alliance bike doesn't look to fit even in an all-human Alliance. Pull off the Crests and it's completely generic. Seriously, WTF do scimitars have to do with the Alliance? I"m honestly asking because I have no idea other than Jr. needing the swooping blade for the support struts because he's become even lazier since I last watched the show. Go big or go home.

What does a chrome steel beetle with blue/gold accents have to do with the Alliance? It looks to serve as some contrast to the Horde bike that doesn't exist in the game.

There so much iconic Alliance shit they could have pulled and they didn't. Even the Horde bike gets (what I assume) are the Tusks of Mannoroth. It's definitely something instantly recognizable.

[TheFeniX]

Two weeks of making the Legendary Cloak Quest faster inbound. A new mount is available for purchase that manages to be both fairly stupid looking and have a hilariously bad run animation.

But really: Stat update time:

The Complete List
In summary, here’s a complete list of our planned secondary and minor stats in Warlords of Draenor:

Secondary Stats
Haste: (Unchanged) Increases attack speed, spell casting speed, and some resource generation
Critical Strike: (Unchanged) Increases your chance to critically strike, dealing double damage
Mastery: (Unchanged) Increases the effectiveness of your specialization-specific Mastery
Multistrike: (New) Grants two chances for your damage and healing effects to fire an additional time, each at 30% effectiveness
Versatility: (New) Increases damage and healing, and reduces damage taken
Spirit: (Unchanged, healer-only) Increases mana regeneration rate
Bonus Armor: (New, tank-only) Increases your armor
Minor Stats
Movement Speed: (New) Increases your movement speed
Indestructible: (New) Causes the item to not take durability damage
Leech: (New) Causes you to be healed for a portion of all damage and healing done
Avoidance: (New) Reduces your damage taken from area-of-effect attacks.

This is the gist of it. You can read the full article for more. Amp trinks are gone. Minor-stats seems dumb and only a way to make BiS hunting even worse. Gear competition is going to be bad, which makes me glad "normals" give each player their own loot table in WoD (IIRC, I could be wrong).

[Darmalus]

I love the new human model, it's makes the anime hair seem even sillier!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/145691 ... -6-25-2014

[Civil War Man]

I love the new human model, it's makes the anime hair seem even sillier!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/145691 ... -6-25-2014

Those are practically Andy Rooney eyebrows there. Still, considering the state of the male human model, they would have had to really try in order to make one that didn't look much better than the original.

Right now the two highest-rated comment threads on that page involve comparing the model to both the human form of Shrek from the second movie and Gaston from Beauty and the Beast.

[TheFeniX]

Right now the two highest-rated comment threads on that page involve comparing the model to both the human form of Shrek from the second movie and Gaston from Beauty and the Beast.

I have to say, I'm ok with this.

I haven't found anything, but I wonder if they're going to update any of the combat animations. I know it sounds stupid, but one reason I hated play Retribution was the 2h special animation for Humans (even females aren't great, but they're better). Both are some kind of "HASSAN CHOP!" bullshit that looks way to "floaty," with the finisher animation (for abilities like Templar's Verdict) adding in some kind of spin. I find myself spending all the time I can morphed into a Belf because the animations are just fancy.

Also, Fem Orc added to model viewer site.

[Darmalus]

Looks like they moved the Horde and Alliance capitals to PvP island.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=241421.2/wa ... -to-ashran

Can't say I'm happy about this. Middle of nowhere next to a pvp zone, what crap.

[Darmalus]

Looks like they moved the Horde and Alliance capitals to PvP island.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=241421.2/wa ... -to-ashran

Can't say I'm happy about this. Middle of nowhere next to a pvp zone, what crap.

Ghetto edit: I should have been more specific. By "next to a pvp zone" I mean the land exit of your faction capital is the pvp zone. That's closer than the Tol Barad camps!

[TheFeniX]

I think I'm done for the time being. The expansion has petered out and there's just nothing I really care to work on. We were going to continue leveling our own little guild (we should have setup years ago), but guild levels are gone in WoD, so there's no point (can't say I'm mad about this). I'm bored and the Steam summer sale is in swing. PvP is a joke and our guild is being dumb.

The first moment of idiocy was trying to carry a returning player through Thok. So, we had 1 and maybe a half healer as her Druid was only 483 and didn't have enough health to take the scream. Why we didn't carry her as DPS, I don't know. Then there's some bit about doing 25m to gear up more people, ignoring that we're losing gear to pugs, and also that pugs are terrible, and that, oh yea, I can't carry fucking everyone. Now they want to start a 10H group and I just can't bring myself to bother with hours of frustration. I finally got my at level end-boss kill and only got outperformed by a hunter 10ilvls above me, so no carry = happy.

I have multiple 90s to pick from when WoD pops, but I'll probably just end up playing my pally or DK again.

[Broomstick]

I agree, we're in expansion doldrums. No matter - I've returned to some single-digit level characters I had and I'm enjoying revisiting the leveling process. Also, pet battles/collecting, and I'm trying out a couple things like the monk class and inscription which I haven't gotten to before this.

[Civil War Man]

Looks like they moved the Horde and Alliance capitals to PvP island.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=241421.2/wa ... -to-ashran

Can't say I'm happy about this. Middle of nowhere next to a pvp zone, what crap.

This has certainly caused quite a stir. The backlash to it is reaching levels comparable to the mandatory RealID fiasco and that one Blizzcon where the devs featured Corpsegrinder going on an anti-Alliance rant filled with homophobic slurs without a lick of shame. Maybe even surpassed them, since there are apparently 19 page-capped threads on the topic in the US forums alone (there are more on the Beta, EU, Brazilian, Spanish, and German forums).

You'd normally think such a change is small potatoes next to those two PR disasters, but since the devs have managed their response to the backlash with an almost legendary lack of grace and dignity, the whole thing has spiraled out of control. There was one tweet where one of them revealed that there wasn't any work put into making Karabor and Bladespire into faction hubs, so it's possible that Blizzard had made the decision months ago and were intentionally concealing it from the customers. There was the half-assed attempt at a lore explanation to justify the change that was immediately torn to pieces by the angry fans. There was the unintentional admitting that following Blizzcon is a complete waste of time and money (saying that hyping Karabor and Bladespire as faction hubs wasn't a promise because they were just "bullet points on a powerpoint slide"). And then there's the petty sniping at angry fans, like Bashiok asking for bizarrely personal information about someone complaining about the change in an apparent attempt to justify being able to call the person immature and dismiss his complaints out of hand.

[Darmalus]

There are times I wonder if Ghostcrawler was really that much of a stabilizing voice of reason, or just an amazing face man.

[Highlord Laan]

There are times I wonder if Ghostcrawler was really that much of a stabilizing voice of reason, or just an amazing face man.

He was a great face man. Bashiok is just an officially protected troll.

[Sharp-kun]

There was one tweet where one of them revealed that there wasn't any work put into making Karabor and Bladespire into faction hubs, so it's possible that Blizzard had made the decision months ago and were intentionally concealing it from the customers.

Sorry, but so what?

Is all game development meant to be some public thing where the players are told everything that's planned / changed? Perhaps no work was done as they hadn't done anything either way as faction hubs weren't being worked on at all until they made a decision. Or maybe they did decide months ago and just didn't say. So what?

I didn't even care where my faction hub was as long as it was cool. I still don't care as I don't know how cool it will be (wherever it is). I didn't have any attachment to Bladespire and wonder why people that haven't even played it do.

You can argue that it could have been handled better, but I don't see what the fuss is about in the first place.

[White Haven]

So, as a long-past former player, I can't help but look at this latest shitstorm, see 'they've moved the capitals!' and check a map for where Ironforge is.

[Darth Yan]

Not sure that this matters Spoiler

but apparently thrall and jaina made peace in the book "war crimes" and Jaina was able to admit that No most orcs aren't garrosh. Not sure how it will play out but hey, it's kinda nice.

[Highlord Laan]

Not sure that this matters Spoiler

but apparently thrall and jaina made peace in the book "war crimes" and Jaina was able to admit that No most orcs aren't garrosh. Not sure how it will play out but hey, it's kinda nice.

Nah. It's cringe worthy. Jaina had every justification for her actions and shift in personality, and every reason to be a hardliner where the horde is concerned. But that was too "edgy" or some other bullshit to metzen and the other lawful stupid overdrive morons, and Jaina has been written as once again embracing being a doormat for the horde. So now Alliance players will have to deal with more neutral, turn-the-other-cheek bullshit from Jaina, and magnitudes more hand wringing, vapid, naive stupidity from metzen's conscience avatar, Anduin.

[Lord Revan]

Jaina wasn't just hardliner against the horde, she wanted wanted to kill them all just like daddy.

Please tell makes an orc baby too young to even move on his or her own or an old orc so senile and frail that all he can do anymore in brag about past glories and embrass his/her children such a threat to the alliance that they deserve to die for the crime of existing and that's just orcs there's also other races in the Horde, if your idea of peace is killing everyone on the other side don't be surpriced if said other side objects to that idea.

And it's not like orcs are incapable of peaceful co-existance, they co-existed for years with the Draenei on Draenor before the rise of the Fel/Iron Horde.

Now pre-cata Jaina was a bit too trusting and naive but it doesn't mean she needs to advocate to genocide to not be "soft", WC3 Jaina didn't exactly like the orcs pre-Mt. Hyjal indeed she thought uniting forces with the Horde was talk of a mad man (direct quote "Unite with them are you mad!"), personally I'd like her to be a voice of reason in the alliance leadership.

[TheFeniX]

Jaina wasn't just hardliner against the horde, she wanted wanted to kill them all just like daddy.

Eh? I never got that from the game. It was "dismantle the Horde" not "kill all of them." The Horde, at that point, was a Military regime. She has every right to see it destroyed. Even in a rage and the aftermath of Darnassus, she still took loads of Horde prisoners rather than just slaughtering them all. This is a plot-point in the Idle of Thunder questline.

Please tell makes an orc baby too young to even move on his or her own or an old orc so senile and frail that all he can do anymore in brag about past glories and embrass his/her children such a threat to the alliance that they deserve to die for the crime of existing and that's just orcs there's also other races in the Horde, if your idea of peace is killing everyone on the other side don't be surpriced if said other side objects to that idea.

As opposed to kidnapping women/children (non-combatants) and forcing them to fight for sport in your capital? Orgimmar is pretty bereft of other non-combatants, so actually razing the city isn't a bad idea because it's a fortified military base at that point, nor do I buy the idea that Jania wanting Varian to wipe out the Horde leadership and what's left of their army means "kill all the orcs."

Hell, the Alliance couldn't be bothered to demand surrender or even "Hey, why don't you return all those Theremore citizens you've been torturing?" Really, any Alliance motives are going to be secondary/ignored in favor of bullshit about Garrosh and Thrall, so no surprise there.

And it's not like orcs are incapable of peaceful co-existance, they co-existed for years with the Draenei on Draenor before the rise of the Fel/Iron Horde.

They aren't capable of it on Azeroth, although that's mostly gameplay contrivances. Talk all you want about "Not all Orcs are like Garrosh," but a metric shit-ton of them, enough to require the combined forces of the Horde rebels and Alliance military to push out of Orgrimmar, were willing to side with him because of "Loktar-ogar" or some shit. And there wasn't any of this follow the leader bullshit, they fully agreed with his idea to crush Azeroth under a boot.

Sidenote: Maybe the books go more into Jania's state-of-mind because the game sure as fuck doesn't. But I'm not reading that when the writing at Blizz is already so poor.

[Civil War Man]

The orcs co-existed peacefully with the Draenei for years on Draenor, but if I remember correctly the two races had almost no interaction with each other prior to the Orcs' attempted genocide, which started well before drinking demon blood on the word of something that they thought was the spirit of one of their ancestors. Bringing up the Draenei as an example of the Orcs peacefully co-existing with another people does not exactly do the Orcs any favors.

[Darth Yan]

The thing about what happened is that they still traded on occasion and didn't hurt each other. Rise of the Horde actually does go into details, with Thrall flat out stating that denying their role in what happened and being victims is to ignore the full horror of what happened. I can see why they bought Kil'jaeden's lies since a.) shaman were highly respected and b.) this is a spirit society where the spirits actually interact with the orcs. It also mentioned how many of the older orcs (saurfang, drek'thar, the older veterans of shattrath,) were genuinely haunted by what they had done (saurfang implies in game that many of the older veterans ended their lives because they couldn't live with what they done.). The fact they had limited contact made it easier (Durotan smelled a rat because he had gotten to know some of the draenei, and thus the lies didn't quite click.)

Fenix, Jaina's genocidal phase was in Tides of War. part of it was the mana bomb residue making her angry but she almost destroyed Orgrimmar. Kalec pointed out that she was using the same logic arthas used to justify the culling of stratholme (and also points out that a.) given that Arthas had no other options because Mal'ganis and Kel stacked the deck against him whereas the other alliance members were trying to find another way and had time to, she was actually being worse and b.) that when you got down to it she was using the same artifact garrosh used to fuel his mana bomb for a similar reason (blowing up a city filled with civillians).) After realizing that she was doing the same thing she mellowed out somewhat and decided that while she wasn't going to go nice she wasn't going to kill all orcs either. That's a fair stance and should have been followed on in game (i.e. Jaina is willing to fight Garrosh, but once he's taken down maybe be open to peace.) It's more on a personal level Thrall and Jaina have finally mended the fence that was torn down in Tides of War.

[Darmalus]

While I like that Jaina has calmed down from the whole genocide thing, as a peaceful character she ultimately has no place in a universe of only war these days. Which is a shame, since it's less interesting for it.

What ever happened to all those belf civilians locked up in Dalaran? Killed? Deported? Forgotten?

[Lord Revan]

Regent-lord Lothe'mar seemed to imply that at least during the time of the fighting in the Thunder Isle Dalaran was still holding them captive as far as Quel'thalas knew meaing they hadn't been deported or publically excuted, that doesn't mean they hadn't forgotten in the depths of the Violet hall and simply starved to death though.

Also as far as I know there's no info on what happend to those prisoners after the Siege and sacking of Orgrimmar

[Civil War Man]

So the Quarter 2 earnings report came out today. It looks like between the massive content drought and a number of generally unpopular decisions or PR missteps (like the Ashran capitals, Azeroth Choppers, and Pardo's comments about the lack of diversity in WoW's cast), the subscription numbers dropped by 800k, down to 6.8 million from 7.6 million, a drop of about 10.5%.

I've heard speculation that one of the reasons they are requiring people to log in as one of their characters in order to claim the Horde chopper is to keep subscription numbers buoyed through Quarter 3, since Warlords is probably not going to be released until September or October at the earliest, which would put it in late Q3/early Q4.

[Darmalus]

I think I missed the diversity comments, when/where were those?