FALLOUT 76

[Eulogy]

You know, I'm glad I didn't buy this game. Or any recent triple ayyy game, for that matter. For the low low cost of not spending $60 I can totally skip all the grind and not worry about getting my shit hacked.

[Gandalf]

I love the phrase "usual Bethesda glitch" in there. Evidently this game is so messed up that things need to be tiered.

[TheFeniX]

Explore, look for little interesting bits of the world, if you just treat this like Boarderlands and rush to get to max level because that's where the best gear drops you'll never enjoy this game. Try doing quests like the Mistress of Mysteries or go explore a location and come to your own conclusion about how things were going before everybody died.

That MIGHT be good. That ONE (and maybe a few other) things. The Silver Shroud questline in F4 was one of a few shining gems in an otherwise incredibly flat and boring game. That doesn't excuse the rest of the game being "oh hey, look at that. Looks interesting. Whoops, just more Raiders to kill and loot."

Okay, you have a personal issue where a collection of BethFaced pixels yammering while a junky camera pans around gets you to pay attention while a holotape that you can listen to at your leisure doesn't do anything for you. That one is all on you.

Actually, it's on a rather large portion of people who got roped into the game. But I'm not big on appealing to popularity: you're still missing a very big point. You're basically saying "the way they did it was terrible, so just don't try." This kind of thinking is pretty terrible for the medium. On top of that: other Fallout games had both holotapes and NPCs to talk to.

You left because you were supposed to help rebuild but the real story is figuring out what the hell happened. The area wasn't nuked and yet everybody is dead. Go solve that mystery and if you see a few neat stories along the way that's the goal.

That sounds like a really interesting plot idea for an indie walking simulator you pay $5 for.

Then play more Div2, nobody forced you to buy this, play it, watch content about it, or bitch here about it.

Yea, but IT'S FUN. And unlike F76, it doesn't cost me $60 (or $35). VALUE! Be glad this isn't F4 because here: You can stop responding to my posts and the conversation ends! And I promise not to bug out and lock you into a conversation after you leave so you can't open up a menu or draw your weapon.

Fallout, post-Beth, hasn't been the deep RPG experience that some people want but OG Fallout was no Baldur's Gate or Ice Wind Dale either. Fallout was never a deep RPG experience packed with choices it just seemed like that was the case because most Fallout fans have wicked thick nostaligia goggles on. Yeah, Beth has made those aspects more shallow and shifted from dry gallows humor to more in your face jokes but that's hardly this travesty that people make it out to be.

Holy shit. This part is worth a hard laugh. Anyone who could say this thinking it's true has obviously never played Fallout 1. The only "hard line" the game took was child murdering. Anything else was pretty much up for grabs. Just the Low Intelligence playthrough options show how much went into developing the RPG side of the game.

And, look, I loved Baulder's Gate but straight ripping the DnD (shitty) 2nd Edition ruleset, placing the game in an established setting rounded out with tons of books, and THEN going with the combination of "The Chosen One" and "An Ancient Evil Awakens" motifs and comparing it to Fallout 1 which was "Hey, let's make a game with elements of The Road Warrior and A Boy and His Dog..... how do we do that?" Yea no, Fallout wins that one.

Yeah, that happens but that's not what I meant. Look for the little stories, the environmental storytelling, the notes, the terminal entries. The stuff that almost everybody says is the best part of BethOut. Those have been ramped up in 76.

The side quests are also pretty decent if you actually take the time to read and lsiten to the story that's there, which you've all but admitted you don't bother with. It's not anybody else's fault that you ignore the story, rush through things on the way to end game, and then complain that you didn't get any story.

Yea, that shit's fucking GREAT. It's great to read all those terminals and notes about the Raider's going back and forth about each other, doing raids, kidnapping someone's daughter for ransom, it all blowing up in their face. I love reading fucking books in an interactive storytelling medium and then thinking "you know, it would have been cool to get involved in that whole thing, play raiders off against each other." Fallout 4 is one huge cock-tease.

If I wanted to read a book, where I can't change the outcome of the story, I would have read a fucking book. Jesus, and if I was really into that (which I ACTUALLY AM), I would just go back and read more books in the Elder Scrolls series because their Lore is both on point and insane.

You want to think I just ignore what I can't loot and what isn't a +1 damage upgrade, but I actually read and listened to a lot of the side shit in F4.... and pretty much every game. Most of it (F4) was just boring. However, even more of it was INFURIATING because there's all this cool shit supposedly going on BUT NONE OF IT IS IN THE GAME I PAID FOR.

Stuff like that should definitely be in the game, as part of the game, it let's you feel like you're in a world that moves along without you. F4 took it WAY too far considering how little content the game had. An entire game based on the concept with 20 other random jackasses to loot and scoot with? Like I said, Indie title like No Man's Sky should have been.

That said, Fallout 4 has several total conversion mods so to say that it was abandoned is a little off. it's not Skyrim which people find easier to mod or New Vegas which gets worshipped in spite of some serious flaws and very linear world design and fixed encounters.

New Vegas is held in high regard for a reason. It was a big game with multiple branching paths to victory (or just options to mess around) hamstrung by a dated engine that couldn't handle hardware for the time and the questing system (due to the unholy amalgamation of the Quest system + terrible scripting language) not dealing well with said branching paths.

Their issue was going big and dealing with the consequences. Beth's was (for Skyrim) go small and have the game crash a bit less than NV, which (and they should thank Obsidian for this) the NV instability basically allowed Beth to ignore complaints of crashes in later games because NV managed to crash MORE than F3.

I will take a buggy big game with a few plots holes over a perfect small one: but Bethesda can't even gut a game to the core and make it stable.

For JUST ONE example on the ability to get something done in NV: Dealing with Benny? Shoot Benny, Intimidate Benny, Convince Benny to work with you, Have sex with Benny (Black Widow) to make him fall in love with you, Have sex with Benny and kill him afterwards. We're actually at the point where F4's "Yes, No (Yes), Sarcastic (Yes), More Information" is the preferable option to F76's "..........". Hilarious.

[Elheru Aran]

...so it sounds like some people at least might like either an updated version of New Vegas or a sequel thereof? Because it does sound like that was a pretty decent game...

[Gandalf]

NV was fun, and it felt like more of an RPG than Fallout 4 did. It had conversations that could be more complex than Yes/No/Sarcasm, depending on how you built your character.

I don't know why they gave that up.

[TheFeniX]

...so it sounds like some people at least might like either an updated version of New Vegas or a sequel thereof? Because it does sound like that was a pretty decent game...

There really two kinds of Fallout fans: fatnerd types (I guess I qualify) who get annoyed that the series has been consistently gutted to the bone, questlines are moronic thus killing tension, and Beth has really gone with the "for the lulz" mentality on a lot of bullshit. Style over substance really. Guys/gals like that don't matter.

Other fans just really want a "game" with content that WORKS. Something even they can say "this is worth X bucks." If you manage to piss THEM off, you've really fucked up. Not only is F76 a buggy POS, it's also mostly devoid of content. I know this (without playing it) because the same people talking about how F4 was the most expansive Fallout and the story was amazeballs and it made them prove GAMES R ART (Editors opinion: it was/did NONE of those things). Those people are looking at F76 and saying "I want to like this game, but there's little to do. What little there IS to do, is boring and repetitive." Even they are saying "other games do the fuck around and explore stuff better and for cheaper."

New Vegas, Obsidian in general, understands/understood the value of "little things." This is important, at least for me, for "real" example of world-building. The story is stupidly simple (like a lot of great works): a bunch of assholes want control of a Dam/New Vegas. That's really it. There's a key MacGuffin for it (also a thing in many great works). The depth is where you and the game go with it.

Like, Faction Armors: why is it when I walk into a Raider base dressed in Raider Leathers, everyone is immediately hostile? Not, "who are you? Wait a minute..." They are hostile the second they see you over the horizon. Because it's easy. Meanwhile in New Vegas, equipping faction armor makes you neutral with a faction until you do something to piss them off. The system isn't perfect, but damn it, it's a start.

I could just go on and on about all the little things in New Vegas. Individually they aren't important (though some definitely are), but when added up it puts that much more into the game. Fallout 4 has just so few of these little things, I can't even recall one off the top of my head. There's just nothing clever about the game or it's mechanics. They are half-cocked and half implemented seemingly due to ease of doing it that way or to pad the game.

[Elheru Aran]

Well from my glancing over the thread since it began, it sounds like there is at least one built-in audience for the game-- West Virginians or expatriates from said state who will pretty much buy it to just walk all over

That said, it does seem thus far that there's not much BUT the walking around at the moment. That does seem pretty shallow if you don't have the local-interest angle going for you.

[Marko Dash]

i'm still enjoying playing the game, but holy shit...

it seems Bethesda is currently swallowing a sword and they seem to think it would make things easier if the sword was on FIRE.

it's almost stressful how much day-to-day stupid seems to be flowing forth with every new development.

[LadyTevar]

Well from my glancing over the thread since it began, it sounds like there is at least one built-in audience for the game-- West Virginians or expatriates from said state who will pretty much buy it to just walk all over

That said, it does seem thus far that there's not much BUT the walking around at the moment. That does seem pretty shallow if you don't have the local-interest angle going for you.

There's some fun things where you can join different Factions. The BrotherHood of Steel storyline starts in the "bog" area somewhere, and once you're a Brother, you get access to the Bunker beneath the Greenbrier!

[tezunegari]

Bethesda: Hey, we have removed this bug...

Players: Bring it Back!

The event "Feed the people" had a bug that resulted in everyone on the server getting the food reward instead of only the participating players.

[Civil War Man]

Bethesda: Hey, we have removed this bug...

Players: Bring it Back!

The event "Feed the people" had a bug that resulted in everyone on the server getting the food reward instead of only the participating players.

If I were working for Bethesda, I would have argued for keeping the bug due to the unintentional flavor. If everyone on the server gets the food, they are in fact feeding the people.

In other news, there is some trepidation over some data-mined info from one of the most recent patches that hints at the possibility of adding loot boxes and/or pay-to-win items to the Atom store. The details are at this Reddit thread, but here's a quick summary.

1. The changes reference Lunchboxes, which is the name used for the loot boxes in Fallout Shelter.
2. A lot of the Lunchbox strings have the ATX tag, which apparently references an item in the Atom store.
3. A lot of animations connected to opening the Lunchboxes, including confetti, balloons, and noisemakers.
4. Animation references that suggest the Lunchbox openings will be visible to other players, ala CoD WW2.
5. Strings referencing buffs connected with Lunchboxes, specifically buffs to XP, carrying capacity, damage, and radiation resistance.
6. While the Lunchbox strings are being changed to include the ATX tag, some unused code referencing Perk card packs in the Atom store has been removed.

The disclaimer on this is that none of this is concrete proof. There's also been some speculation that the Lunchboxes may be buff items related to server events that Bethesda has announced that they're going to start running, and Bethesda has publicly claimed that the Atom store will only ever contain cosmetics and they won't ever add loot boxes. But there's enough circumstantial evidence hinting at paid loot boxes being added that, given Bethesda's very public repeated face-plants over Fallout 76's issues, a lot of people are getting worried.

[TheFeniX]

The disclaimer on this is that none of this is concrete proof. There's also been some speculation that the Lunchboxes may be buff items related to server events that Bethesda has announced that they're going to start running, and Bethesda has publicly claimed that the Atom store will only ever contain cosmetics and they won't ever add loot boxes. But there's enough circumstantial evidence hinting at paid loot boxes being added that, given Bethesda's very public repeated face-plants over Fallout 76's issues, a lot of people are getting worried.

Wouldn't be a big surprise. Remember when Overkill (WRT PayDay 2) straight up said "we'd never sell upgrades for money. Accusing us of that!? SHAME ON YOU!" then, you know, DID exactly that a few months later and said "Well.... circumstances change" then spent the next few months after that gaming the stat system to fuck up all the established break points so that pretty much any weapon (those that weren't turned into trash) needed 1 (or more) paid mods to hit the magic breakpoint.

I didn't even "game" Payday like that (I use what I like) and it pissed me off.

This is the problem with the Freemium paid game: They got your money, what the fuck you going to do about it? With all the launches and auto-patching and "Here's you login for our shit system" horse hockey going on, they can change the game to what they like whenever they want. Doubly-so for online games.

We already at the point where they're selling either an analog for iddqd or "Can I play, Daddy?" (take your pick) and all the design garbage that comes from that. AssCreed Odd seems designed to suck money out of casuals as well. Since the XP gains on harder difficulties is way above that of lower ones, the grind seemingly only really hurts people playing on normal and below.

Either way, "Players are saying low encumbrance is a HUGE problem for F76. I know, sell them an upgrade." The comedy writes itself.

[bilateralrope]

In other news, there is some trepidation over some data-mined info from one of the most recent patches that hints at the possibility of adding loot boxes and/or pay-to-win items to the Atom store. The details are at this Reddit thread, but here's a quick summary.

Not really a surprise. Releasing the game to reviewers, while holding back the true monetization plans until a later update so reviewers don't talk about it, seems to be standard practise these days. Adding in lootboxes and/or increasing grind after reviewers have lost interest is nothing new. Bethesda is just taking longer to put it into the game than most.

So I wonder how much of Bethesda deciding to get away from Steam is due to them getting to keep all the money and how much is due to them getting away from Steam user reviews and review bombs.

Either way, "Players are saying low encumbrance is a HUGE problem for F76. I know, sell them an upgrade." The comedy writes itself.

Make the problem, sell the solution, is another pretty common AAA business model.

[TheFeniX]

Not really a surprise. Releasing the game to reviewers, while holding back the true monetization plans until a later update so reviewers don't talk about it, seems to be standard practise these days. Adding in lootboxes and/or increasing grind after reviewers have lost interest is nothing new. Bethesda is just taking longer to put it into the game than most.

I'm awaiting the deluge of texts from friends and family after the shit hits the fan. I say that because I had to send drivel like "what did you expect?" after EA started in with the cash shop shenanigans with both barrels on Battlefront. They honestly thought EA backing down at first was a big win or something. They've already got your money and ROUND 2 FIGHT! doesn't get nearly the visceral reaction as Round 1.

So I wonder how much of Bethesda deciding to get away from Steam is due to them getting to keep all the money and how much is due to them getting away from Steam user reviews and review bombs.

I've been considering this more and more since everyone has dove for their own shitty browsers launcher app with thrilling code I assume is still something like "http://c:\Games\ShitboxOnline.exe". It doesn't do much for console, but MS and Sony already have shown customer protection is not on their agenda and paid review combined with embargoes handles the rest.

Make the problem, sell the solution, is another pretty common AAA business model.

I play shitty mobile games from time to time. I love to see the cliff. Two of the most current ones I play are Injustice 2 and this new Star Trek Mobile one. The walls are insane. For Inj, you hit a point where enemy threat jumps from like 85k to 190k to the next fight. The shitty Star Trek one is around level 10 where you can then be attacked by other players and the stat jumps get crazy. A player 5 levels above could realistically just farm you and infinite others over and over. I honestly started in because I read they added a $50 ship that could essentially kill anyone else with that same ship.

Oddly, Fallout Shelter has no cliff I've seen. It's one smooth curve up, then it levels off. However, the F2P system is terrible since paid items are per vault. Lose the vault, via deleting or save corruption: POOF.

But those are shitty mobile games I paid $0 for. They want these cliffs everywhere. Where the player hits a wall and it's either a monumental grind or a credit card payment. A stripping of features to be sold back to the player.I cannot fathom why people cough up money for it. To me it's no different than if the CD player your car came with would only play 10 songs a day, but you could unlock more. Or your A/C was programmed to slowly start blowing less and less cold air unless you paid $X. And really with these it isn't so much the cliffs, it's the marsh that slows you down as you try to race for a brand.

F76 is just a fun lens into branding. Just imagine it wasn't a Fallout game and was coming out of some Indie. The game wouldn't even make the news, just another forgotten shitpile in gaming. The "hook" is literally "The MP Fallout no one asked for." There's been dozens of games released just like it that faded into obscurity because they were garbage.

Fucking Heroes of the Storm did the same thing: literally DOTA but with your fav Blizz characters (and Thrall). Once again, $0 game.

[bilateralrope]

Everything I've heard about F76 gives the impression of Bethesda seeing what other companies are doing that makes them shitloads of money and trying to copy it.

Which means I'm expecting them to boost their revenue a bit further with in-game advertising next.

[TheFeniX]

They CAN do new things. Like $20 for a fucking Santa Clause outfit. Even shitters on Reddit are getting tired of defending this. It's hilarious.

£16 for a Christmas bundle of virtual items! £14 for a giant camp sign! A tenner for some Christmas emotes! There's new gubbins on sale at Fallout 76's Atom shop - and players reckon they're getting ripped off.

Visit the Atom shop in Fallout 76 right now and you'll see a few limited-time items for sale. The bundle "Comin' to town" is discounted from 3000 Atoms to 2000 Atoms. This bundle includes Mr and Mrs. Claus outfits, a stuffed radstag camp decoration and Mr and Mrs. Claus player icons. Based on the fact you can't just buy this bundle with real-world money directly (you have to buy Atoms in set denominations), it'll set you back around £16. That's down from 3000 Atoms remember, which means Bethesda values "Comin' to town" at just over £20.

Only an excerpt, the rest of the article provides even more laughs.

Like... somehow a costume pack they just came out with, is seasonal, and would only realistically be worn in December, is ON SALE!

"Guys, we were going to sell F76 at eleventy bajillion dollars because IT'S JUST WORTH THAT MUCH! BUT we're practically GIVING it away at $59 and 100 cents! Please dump your money in that hole over there."

[bilateralrope]

The bundle "Comin' to town" is discounted from 3000 Atoms to 2000 Atoms.

Did they ever sell this bundle at the 3,000 Atom price ?
Because, if they didn't, then it runs afoul of NZ law because they are advertising that the price has been reduced from something other than the usual price. Other countries probably have a similar law.

Which would make it the second instance of false advertising generated from Fallout 76.

[TheFeniX]

Did they ever sell this bundle at the 3,000 Atom price ?
Because, if they didn't, then it runs afoul of NZ law because they are advertising that the price has been reduced from something other than the usual price. Other countries probably have a similar law.

Which would make it the second instance of false advertising generated from Fallout 76.

They've never sold it, period, until now AFAIK. No real difference than saying "Purchase Fallout 76 on sale for $80$60!"

[Civil War Man]

For added comedy, apparently that emote bundle doesn't actually contain new emotes, but is a pack of holiday-themed icons for the existing emotes in-game. So they are charging you $12 for a dozen png files.

[TheFeniX]

As shitty as that is, at least it's new (AFAIK). The Atom Store is chock full of assets from F4 such as face paints which not only were IN THE GAME already: they are literally a Black tint mask/overlay .png/.dds) for $2.50. Greaser Jacket since "forever?" $8. Nuka Girl Armor ported from the DLC? $12*. "Clean water from a dirty purifier? How does that make sense?" I had to laugh out loud about the idea that "our game makes no sense, pay money to make it do so."

*I can't remember if it was $10 or $15 I paid (sale), so that one outfit is either a bit more or a bit less than what I paid for the SEASON PASS for F4. Here I was bitching Automatron was some robot assets, some new stuff, and a loot hallway: all for $5. Bethesda finally made the jump to Evolve or (bigger cheap-shot) F2P Mobile Game shop system.

I don't give a shit about what gets done to CoD or Halo or any other number of titles because those were always marketed toward DudeBros. I didn't care The Sims was pricing out really shitty cosmetics and "expansions" for decades. Sure, I bitched and refused to give them money. But goddamn it, I've coughed up money for every Fallout except Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel (the game, not the F3 DLC) and shit bled from everywhere else in the medium and people were willing to dump so much money on something that was easy to identify as terrible from a glance: fucking Fallout 4 isn't the laziest cash-grabbiest Fallout anymore.

[bilateralrope]

Banned Fallout 76 players say Bethesda wants an essay to get accounts back

500 words on ‘Why the use of third-party cheat software is detrimental to an online game community,’ please
By Allegra Frank@LegsFrank Dec 26, 2018, 10:58am EST

Bethesda has banned a swath of Fallout 76 players for using third-party software, including mods and cheating programs. If those players want to get their accounts back, they do have a way to appeal the decision — as long as they’re willing to write an essay in defense of their actions.

JuiceHead, a YouTuber and active member of the Fallout Reddit community, reported that numerous players received emails from Bethesda’s customer support, explaining that they were banned for cheating. As a result, the developer had closed their accounts.

Some players argued that these bans were unprompted — that Bethesda falsely accused them of using third-party software or exploits in Fallout 76. A thread on the main Fallout subreddit, for instance, includes several hypotheses for the bans, including the use of the popular software like Cheat Engine and Reshade, which allows players to edit the visuals, as well as item duplicators.

But the most interesting part of this recent ban wave is the note at the very end of the email, as highlighted in JuiceHead’s video.

“If you would like to appeal this account closure, we would be willing to accept an essay on ‘Why the use of third-party cheat software is detrimental to an online game community,’ for our management team to review,” the support email reads.

That’s a comically strange way to give players a chance to overturn their bans, but Bethesda has been known to be cheeky in the past. As far as receipts go, there are screenshots of identical support emails included in the video, which suggest that these users may not be joking around.

“The fact that we have three instances of this email across three different posts leads me to believe it’s pretty legit,” wrote JuiceHead, who privately spoke to Reddit users and Twitter users.

We’ve reached out Bethesda for further confirmation and will update accordingly. Meanwhile, the affected Fallout 76 players continue to argue that they were unfairly banned, pointing to the vagueness of this email as proof. Guess that means it’s unlikely any of them will be completing this homework assignment.

How does this sound like a good idea to anyone working at Bethesda ?

[Civil War Man]

On top of that, apparently another promo Bethesda did was Nuka Dark Rum, pitched as Nuka Cola's attempted foray into the alcoholic beverage market. For about $80, one could get a bottle of dark rum in a distinctive Nuka Cola bottle, with the rocket fins added in Fallout 4.



So, as these things sometimes happen, there were various delays, so the rum didn't end up shipping on the original release date. It's not uncommon for that to happen, particularly since it all has to be done through a third-party contractor. Normally this would have completely flown under the radar.

The only reason it comes up is because the people who ordered the Nuka Dark Rum finally got an announcement that the production issues were resolved, and everything would be shipping soon. There was even a video that showed the rum being bottled...



...and showed that the Nuka Cola bottle was actually a plastic shell that went over a plain glass bottle.

Considering that you can get a bottle of Gosling's for about $20, most people were only paying $80 for what they thought was going to be a distinctive rocket bottle, so once again a bunch of people are pissed off.

The best analysis I've seen of the litany of problems and missteps that keep coming out was someone on Twitter saying that Bethesda's bugs have escaped confinement and have started affecting the real world.

[bilateralrope]

Looks to me like Bethesda feels like they don't have to care about false advertising laws.

I wish they were wrong.

[Zaune]

And I bet the rum turns out to be cheap crap as well.

[Jub]

The rum isn't even Beth's doing, though they should have put strict guidelines in place for quality, it's a 3rd party licensing deal with a bottling company. That said, what kind of sad loser pays $80 for a bottle of unknown quality rum and $200 for a copy of a game with a bag, I could care less about said bags supposed quality, and cheap plastic helmet? I don't get the fat nerd desire to get useless trinkets just because they enjoy a game franchise. Especially as over the years these trinkets have almost universally been cheap and available for pennies on the dollar a few weeks after release.

I don't get bitching that the physical goods, which have never been worth paying for, aren't worth what you paid for them. It's like buying a loot crate full of dollar store pins, rejected slogan T-shirts, and a few posters and complaining that you got junk leftover from a Spencer's Halloween sale. No shit, what do you think these crates are if not a way to sell overstocked goods to idiots.