STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-09 01:10am

i was mainly thinking of having my nation be to powerful to smash right away but not powerful enough to conquer anyone.

would that work?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 01:13am

Agent Fisher wrote:would that work?

The 2/3 rule, again. Given the state of expansion since game start, you'll be perhaps half as powerful as someone like the Nashtari (a good baseline power). That's strong enough to make any attempt against you expensive.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 01:13am

When people's whole nations get burned down into ashes they have a tendency to get tired. Ever tried to play Risk to actual world conquest?

Going down fighting RULES.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-09 01:14am

Thirdfain wrote:
When people's whole nations get burned down into ashes they have a tendency to get tired. Ever tried to play Risk to actual world conquest?
Going down fighting RULES.

Not going down at all is even better.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 01:15am

That's not always an option, someone needs to lose in an STGOD or there's no point.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 01:52am

Rogue 9 wrote:
We have been attacked, various alliance ships have passed through the extended teritory that we declared off limits.
Excuse me? Just when did we do that?

*Crickets*

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-09 05:43am

Thirdfain wrote:That's not always an option, someone needs to lose in an STGOD or there's no point.

I thought there was only one person in all of ASVS/SD.net history that's ever actually lost a STGOD

(Actually, with that guy we voted out, it might be two)

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 09:44am

Darksider wrote:
Thirdfain wrote:That's not always an option, someone needs to lose in an STGOD or there's no point.
I thought there was only one person in all of ASVS/SD.net history that's ever actually lost a STGOD

Total loss, yes, only one. An extremely severe temporary setback is fairly common and often leads to a declination of interest.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 09:49am

Murazor, you are going through too many actions at once. You just compressed the clooaked fleet tender attack (unworkable against a fleet which was prepared for the sudden appearance of an enemy counterattack, which mine was,) the destruction of the shipyards (To which I wouold have certainly taken action) and your own counterattack.

s'not cool.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 09:59am

Okay... just three things about that fight:

1) Thirdfain was camping his ships at beyond the range of guided missiles--which might be as far as 100,000 kilometers, IIRC. With your ramship going 50 kps, it's going to take half an hour to get to them. The Ouster ships were probably maneuevering at least a little bit during this time as they don't have the disadvantage of being fixed in space like your defenses. I don't think your ship's ballistic trajectory would have held good for that long, anyway.
2) The Ousters were straining their sensors into the void, keeping their energy weapons running hot and ready, and were prepared to scramble and maneuver. Their KE kill tactic was designed to draw you out, and they were getting ready to jump you.
3) You called a hit against the tender. Calling hits is against the rules.

Now... places to go, people to see. I'll be back later.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-09 10:28am

@#*₧"

Okay... Let me se how I solve this mess.

Murazor, you are going through too many actions at once. You just compressed the clooaked fleet tender attack (unworkable against a fleet which was prepared for the sudden appearance of an enemy counterattack, which mine was,) the destruction of the shipyards (To which I wouold have certainly taken action) and your own counterattack.

Wasn't ST DS9 the tech limit? Because from what I remember, the Dominion, the Klingon and the Romulans have managed to use cloaks to get within spitting distance of Starfleet vessels (ships expecting trouble, I may add) many times.

Can somebody tell me what can be done with a cloak according to the rules, please?

1) Thirdfain was camping his ships at beyond the range of guided missiles--which might be as far as 100,000 kilometers, IIRC. With your ramship going 50 kps, it's going to take half an hour to get to them. The Ouster ships were probably maneuevering at least a little bit during this time as they don't have the disadvantage of being fixed in space like your defenses. I don't think your ship's ballistic trajectory would have held good for that long, anyway.

Couldn't find specified weapon ranges and supposed that 15-30.000 km would be extreme range considering typical ST ranges. This makes all the thing more or less pointless. About the trajectory not holding that long, what do you mean? That the Ousters would have detected and destroyed it long before reaching anywhere near their fleet?

2) The Ousters were straining their sensors into the void, keeping their energy weapons running hot and ready, and were prepared to scramble and maneuver. Their KE kill tactic was designed to draw you out, and they were getting ready to jump you.

This is the main problem. No problem with the possibility of the thing missing the Ouster because they are moving all around the place, but I must ask how can they detect a cloaked ship that isn't maneuvering or doing something that might reveal its position.

3) You called a hit against the tender. Calling hits is against the rules.

Yet again, I didn't know (it is kinda boring to say the same thing all the time). I'm solving this ASAP.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-09 10:30am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
We have been attacked, various alliance ships have passed through the extended teritory that we declared off limits.
Excuse me? Just when did we do that?
*Crickets*

I've got a post coming on that, be patient and it shall apear.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2004-09-09 11:21am

Just did a major rewritting of the post. Is the situation acceptable now?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 12:05pm

Murazor wrote:Wasn't ST DS9 the tech limit? Because from what I remember, the Dominion, the Klingon and the Romulans have managed to use cloaks to get within spitting distance of Starfleet vessels (ships expecting trouble, I may add) many times.

We're not just going with exactly what's within the DS9 tech level, we're going with what would be possible at that level of advancement if the writers weren't uncreative hacks. Our average battleship probably has a shitload more firepower than any vessel from DS9.

Mass detectors are one possibility to detect an attack like the one you attempted.

Can somebody tell me what can be done with a cloak according to the rules, please?

If somebody isn't expecting you, you can hit them pretty much at will. Commerce raiding, mainly.

Couldn't find specified weapon ranges and supposed that 15-30.000 km would be extreme range considering typical ST ranges. This makes all the thing more or less pointless.

Several OOBs list maximum missile range at around or over 100,000 km. Again, this would be theoretically possible with Star Trek levels of technology.

About the trajectory not holding that long, what do you mean? That the Ousters would have detected and destroyed it long before reaching anywhere near their fleet?

What you're trying to do is essentially to hit his fleet tender with a bullet fired from a gun. We can ignore windage in this case (because it's taking place in space) but this is the equivalent of shooting a rabbit from 20 miles away. Even if you target him perfectly, the rabbit is probably going to move long before the bullet gets there. Thirdfain's fleet tender was actively in motion, resupplying exhausted missile magazines and the like.

This is the main problem. No problem with the possibility of the thing missing the Ouster because they are moving all around the place, but I must ask how can they detect a cloaked ship that isn't maneuvering or doing something that might reveal its position.

Two things, in this case:
Mass Detectors--the cloaking device can't disguise the gravity generated by your ship, which would become more and more detectable as it drew nearer the fleet. There are a lot of sensors looking for you, and when they detect something massing on the order of a large nickel/iron asteroid moving 50 kms directly at them, and they can't see it on traditional sensors, they're going to see something is up and take evasive action.
Magnetic Field--your freighter is carrying a shitload of iron, iron is magnetic, and it's very possible that it would be generating a significant and detectable magnetic field that extended well beyond the wings of your cloak.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 12:09pm

Murazor wrote:Just did a major rewritting of the post. Is the situation acceptable now?

I think it looks good.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 12:17pm

Yeah, Murazor. S'good. I'm editing my response now to match your new post. Cool beans.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 01:06pm

"If you will direct your attention to the holo-projector, you will see sensor readings from one of our Malachi class destroyers that was patrolling our space. They have just come into sensor range of a large unannounced gathering of ships, and are moving to investigate when two of the ships break off on an interception course. Freeze! Here you can see the sensor data."
It clearly showed two war ships, they were identified as Luke class Missle Frigates.
"These are ships belonging to the United Protectorates, they undeniably violated our space and thus in accordance with our previous declaration they have declared war apon us, and the Unification as a whole. That is why we have gone to war with a pack of mass murderers."

You don't get to direct our fleet movements for us. We didn't do that.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-09 01:07pm

Rogue 9 wrote:You don't get to direct our fleet movements for us. We didn't do that.

Again, he's probably lying about the whole thing.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 01:11pm

Well then, where'd all those ships come from? The attack force for Elysium/Eketrina left before they declared their borders closed, and everything else is still in port. Do we get to know about this, or is the reason for the sudden mass attack going to be the Unification's little secret?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 04:35pm

Danielsben, where in Known Space is your nation? I'll point out that it takes days or more to travel between all but the closest star nations. 4 hours is the sort off transit-time you'd expect to get from your core worlds to your furthest colony, not to a distant star nation...

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-09-09 04:39pm

Hey, Nitram, Thirdfain offered a mulligan on that civilian bombardment, but Frigid hasnt been ehre to accept it, itmay be best on holding off on that war declaration.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-09 04:41pm

They'll be attacking the Cluster in any case. Let's keep moving.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-09 04:42pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Hey, Nitram, Thirdfain offered a mulligan on that civilian bombardment, but Frigid hasnt been ehre to accept it, itmay be best on holding off on that war declaration.

Given that an attack will be made on a Cluster, that Frigid was the one that knew it was a largely civilian-population Cluster, and that I've got a psychopathic Ouster threatening to turn on a Master Programmer.. I'm gonna run with it.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-09 05:05pm

Look, we weren't going to attack civilian clusters. Genocide is not in our war aims, and that series of posts was all a gigantic mixup. We should have gone to Eketrina. Thirdfain accepted a mulligan, and mass slaughter therefore did not occur.

Edit: You are of course free to declare war, but the cluster at Elysium is still there.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-09 05:06pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Look, we weren't going to attack civilian clusters. Genocide is not in our war aims, and that series of posts was all a gigantic mixup. We should have gone to Eketrina. Thirdfain accepted a mulligan, and mass slaughter therefore did not occur.

Maybe you need some remedial reading. Every Cluster has large civilian populations.