[STGOD] Primary Story Thread

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-10 09:56pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:The Asgard have also failed to bring murder charges against the Kokand terrorists. But instead mutiny charges that they knew would not hold up. This is an outrage.
War is not murder. Should we likewise try the Floater militaries for their numerous murders in the same war? And perhaps the Krytos as well? And the Monamoracans? And you?

Please, don't utterly forsake your pitiful grasp on sanity. War means death, if you don't like that don't get involved in them.

When a taskforce goes AWOL and begins attacking and killing civilians after their lawful government has ceased fire...that is murder, and an act of terrorism, not war.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:01pm

No, me lost them while they were in convoy with the orginal taskforce. We know exactly when all fourteen vessels were lost.

And yes, the Asgard vessels worked along side the Kokand vessels. Haven't you heard of prize crews? Kokand officers were in charge of the vessels and had been since their seizure.

That is no defense. You admit that you allowed two of your vessels to be taken intact, and that your crewmen then went along with officers installed above them, officers from what your own courts have ruled as a foreign power.

Gross negligence, with an incredible cost in lives.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-06-10 10:06pm

The OU is beginning the question the ability of the Floaters to listen... Do you honestly believe the tripe you're spewing? Your saying that the renegades would leave the existing crew in nearly complete control of the ship, instead of replacing the crew with their own, and that two captains would willingly have thier crews die, instead of trying to keep them alive. No wonder you've started so many wars...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:14pm

The OU is beginning the question the ability of the Floaters to listen... Do you honestly believe the tripe you're spewing? Your saying that the renegades would leave the existing crew in nearly complete control of the ship, instead of replacing the crew with their own, and that two captains would willingly have thier crews die, instead of trying to keep them alive. No wonder you've started so many wars...

And I quote, from the Asgard newservice:

"The CREWS of the hijacked Vampyres have already been let loose. They were declared unwilling accomplices."
(emphasis added.)

Apparantly, the ships were crewed by Asgard soldiers, working against their will.

As for your tripe about captains allowing their crews to die, we wonder if the OU ambassador has been enjoying his Minister of the Interior's supply of Zarathrustran joysticks. We never once implied anything of the like- we simply are stating that the Asgard Empire acted with gross incompotence. The captains of the two Vampyre vessels are either traitors, or murdered victims of the Kokand terrorists.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:19pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:When a taskforce goes AWOL and begins attacking and killing civilians after their lawful government has ceased fire...that is murder, and an act of terrorism, not war.

You never so much as extended a cease fire offer to the Asgard. Their government did not sign said cease fire at all and certainly not a peace treaty.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-06-10 10:20pm

"It should be noted that the Asgard have not been receiving ITA subsidies for the construction of a standardized ITASF fleet sinse they abandoned the project in order to address national concerns.

Seeming as the Fenari and the Minmatar were still neutral and had ships performing ITASF roles I judged that eliminating the threat to the ITA trade lanes was a higher priority. Now that we are operating at normal levels ITASF production can resume. However, if the majority of this council feels that the Asgard Representative should not hold the position of MFA then I am welcome to suggestions as to who would be best suited to the role. I would prefer to have the position filled by a seperate ITA member but if neccessary the position could be merged with the MoS role, which would make sense from a production point of view given the recent retooling of the Fenari shipyards, or I could take on the responsibility myself, the Minmatar shipyards have finished their production run of our new escorts and are waiting for a new project. Either way I leave this for the council to decide."

No confidence in MFA

Yea:
Floaters
Monacorans
DE

Nay:
Asgard (VETO)
OU

Abstain:
Minmatar

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:22pm

Thirdfain wrote:That is no defense. You admit that you allowed two of your vessels to be taken intact, and that your crewmen then went along with officers installed above them, officers from what your own courts have ruled as a foreign power.

Gross negligence, with an incredible cost in lives.

They were not "allowed" at all, they were given the choice of surrendering or dying. You may be all for a suicidal last stand but those captains nor their crews were so eager to die. Fighting to the death when it would only have resulted in their deaths is poor foolishness. It's bad holo-vid nonesense.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-10 10:23pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:When a taskforce goes AWOL and begins attacking and killing civilians after their lawful government has ceased fire...that is murder, and an act of terrorism, not war.
You never so much as extended a cease fire offer to the Asgard. Their government did not sign said cease fire at all and certainly not a peace treaty.

We didnt offer a cease fire because we never opened fire on any of your ships. You and the Floaters ceased fire. Hostilities between our nations had not begun.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:23pm

Odd you should mention that, but there is a massive shipyard, bereft of life and ready to use, with numerous half-completed hulls, in the Alpha Centauri system. We imagine that with sufficient funding, any power in the ITA could take the shipyard and begin construction of vessels to order for the ITASF.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-10 10:25pm

We would be willing to take control of such shipyards. And begin constructing ships for the ITASF

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:27pm

The Asgard ships were already in motion. The Floater's slip had lead to a profitable raid. Several battlecruisers and their escorts dropped out of hyperspace just short of the dockyards.

They had been dispatch straight from Earth the second the Floater had slipped. Now the shipyards were firmly in the hands of Asgard Imperial Marines.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:28pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:We didnt offer a cease fire because we never opened fire on any of your ships. You and the Floaters ceased fire. Hostilities between our nations had not begun.

Yet you and your allies had begun the war against them and never finished it.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:28pm

They were not "allowed" at all, they were given the choice of surrendering or dying. You may be all for a suicidal last stand but those captains nor their crews were so eager to die. Fighting to the death when it would only have resulted in their deaths is poor foolishness. It's bad holo-vid nonesense.

Two undamaged, modern Asgard warships, with their advanced gravitational shielding, against a force of war-ravaged, significantly slower Kokander vessels which mount only P-Beams, weapons without the propogation speed to penetrate Asgard sidewalls.

Your captain's gross incompotence, and your nation's inablity to secure it's own fleets, point to the simple facts- the Asgard Empire is in no position to act as arbiter for the combined fleets of the ENTIRE ITA.

We would recommend that the position go to the Monacoran Empire- they have experience with Floater systems, garnered in our long alliance, which would help them immensely as they brought the Womb shipyards back on-line in service of the ITA.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-06-10 10:30pm

The Monacoran Empire has almost no experience with a fleet!

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:30pm

Yet you and your allies had begun the war against them and never finished it.

A universal cease fire was declared. Vessels of both the Kokand Empire and the URN complied. As the Kokand Empire ceased to exist as a governing body within hours of the conflict (before and Asgard vessels went pirate, that is,) we were unable to sign a formal peace treaty. After all, one cannot sign a peace treaty with a nation which does not exist.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:32pm

Thirdfain wrote:Two undamaged, modern Asgard warships, with their advanced gravitational shielding, against a force of war-ravaged, significantly slower Kokander vessels which mount only P-Beams, weapons without the propogation speed to penetrate Asgard sidewalls.

You are away that the Black Forest alone mounts enough weapons to savage our warships. And given they were in convoy and had defenses down, they could well have wiped out the two ships. Carriers are much more vulnerable because of their launch bays after all.

Thirdfain wrote:Your captain's gross incompotence, and your nation's inablity to secure it's own fleets, point to the simple facts- the Asgard Empire is in no position to act as arbiter for the combined fleets of the ENTIRE ITA.

Our captains chose to preserve the lives of their crew rather than die futilely. Are you so barbvaric as to believe in the old notion of death before dishonor? Because you are seriously suggesting that they should die simply to spite a force which had clear and crushing superiority.

Thirdfain wrote: We would recommend that the position go to the Monacoran Empire- they have experience with Floater systems, garnered in our long alliance, which would help them immensely as they brought the Womb shipyards back on-line in service of the ITA.

Should that happen we will leave the ITA. They have proven less helpful and effective than we had hoped anyways.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:35pm

The Monacoran Empire has almost no experience with a fleet!

which is alright, because the minister of the ITA fleet is tasked not with ordering vessels around, but with organizing construction and logistics- things the Monacoran Empire has never had any problems with.

would you suggest, instead, the Asgard Empire, which has active pirate groups seceding from it?

Known Space's most important institution- the trade routes which bind us, even your empire and mine, together, which will last long after the words "United Floater Republics" and "Asgard Empire" are forgotten words in the backs of history texts- are too important to be trusted to a nation which has shown itself to be so untrustworthy.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:38pm

Thirdfain wrote:A universal cease fire was declared. Vessels of both the Kokand Empire and the URN complied. As the Kokand Empire ceased to exist as a governing body within hours of the conflict (before and Asgard vessels went pirate, that is,) we were unable to sign a formal peace treaty. After all, one cannot sign a peace treaty with a nation which does not exist.

A cease fire their government never approved. Their commanders merely went along with.

Actually, it took several months before the Kokand government was removed. Until the Acts of Annexation passed they were the governing body of the Kokand. Please, read the news faxes or at least follow the news.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:39pm

Our captains chose to preserve the lives of their crew rather than die futilely. Are you so barbvaric as to believe in the old notion of death before dishonor? Because you are seriously suggesting that they should die simply to spite a force which had clear and crushing superiority

No, I am suggesting they should have taken reasonable security precautions. You were, as a matter of fact, in the midst of removing the legitimate Kokand government. Did it not occur to you that their might be some problems? Did it not occur to you to properly secure the Kokander warships? Did it not occur to you to guard your convoys with sufficient firepower?

Foolishness. You smash a nation, pray that their resentment is directed only to your foreign opponents, and neglect taking reasonable precautions.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:41pm

Should that happen we will leave the ITA. They have proven less helpful and effective than we had hoped anyways.

Ah, we forgot that the Asgard were not a democratic power- if the vote goes against them, they will do what is necessary to keep things going their way.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:46pm

Thirdfain wrote:No, I am suggesting they should have taken reasonable security precautions. You were, as a matter of fact, in the midst of removing the legitimate Kokand government. Did it not occur to you that their might be some problems? Did it not occur to you to properly secure the Kokander warships? Did it not occur to you to guard your convoys with sufficient firepower?

A) We did not remove the Kokand's legitimate government as you so imply. They voluntarily and at their own instigation were annexed as it was the only way to prevent you and you jackels from carving up their nation.

B) We had just gone through a war. We didn't have the luxury, nor do we now, to replace all the crews and officers of the Kokand. It was simply impossible since our officers are only vaguely familiar with Kokand vessels. And we could spare no ships with our fleet securing Earth. Certainly not enough to secure such a taskforce.

Thirdfain wrote:Foolishness. You smash a nation, pray that their resentment is directed only to your foreign opponents, and neglect taking reasonable precautions.

As a matter of fact, the Kokand military and most of their people welcomed it when the other option was Floater tyranny. We did not smash them at all (perhaps that freudian slip on your part should be noted?) but rather made a peaceful transition. The Kokand government began the process, not we.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:49pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Should that happen we will leave the ITA. They have proven less helpful and effective than we had hoped anyways.
Ah, we forgot that the Asgard were not a democratic power- if the vote goes against them, they will do what is necessary to keep things going their way.

We are not a democracy indeed. The Asgard Stellar Empire is a constitutional monarchy.

And why should we remain in an organization solely controlled by hostile nations.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:53pm

A) We did not remove the Kokand's legitimate government as you so imply. They voluntarily and at their own instigation were annexed as it was the only way to prevent you and you jackels from carving up their nation.

Ridiculous. Your assertion that our nation, which simply lacks the ability to occupy even a single world, wanted to carve up the Kokand Empire is insane.

A cease fire their government never approved. Their commanders merely went along with.

Actually, it took several months before the Kokand government was removed. Until the Acts of Annexation passed they were the governing body of the Kokand. Please, read the news faxes or at least follow the news

The Asgard Empire spoke for the Kokanders when the peace agreements were made, making concessions in the Kokander's name. To now say that you did not, in fact, work alongside the Kokanders in preparing the peace agreements would be ridiculous.

B) We had just gone through a war. We didn't have the luxury, nor do we now, to replace all the crews and officers of the Kokand. It was simply impossible since our officers are only vaguely familiar with Kokand vessels. And we could spare no ships with our fleet securing Earth. Certainly not enough to secure such a taskforce.

A war in which you lost a mere two ageing vessels. You had been barely scratched by the proceedings. Your assertion that losing half a dozen out-of date warships rendered you unable to provide sufficient security is unbelievable.

As a matter of fact, the Kokand military and most of their people welcomed it when the other option was Floater tyranny. We did not smash them at all (perhaps that freudian slip on your part should be noted?) but rather made a peaceful transition. The Kokand government began the process, not we.

Never the less, you were supplanting a former government- a tumultous procedure.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2003-06-10 10:56pm

We are not a democracy indeed. The Asgard Stellar Empire is a constitutional monarchy.

And why should we remain in an organization solely controlled by hostile nations.

Hostility exists as long as there is reason, and as long as the Asgard Empir shows itself to be unable to dispense justice and restrain it's vessels from commiting acts of brutal violence, it will find large parts of the ITA hostile to it. The Asgard Empire should take this as a sign that perhaps they need to make some changes in their national policy, if they are to enjoy being a part of mainstream society.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-10 10:59pm

The Asgard Empire spoke for the Kokanders when the peace agreements were made, making concessions in the Kokander's name. To now say that you did not, in fact, work alongside the Kokanders in preparing the peace agreements would be ridiculous.

We did indeed. However the peace process had not been completed (and still is not legally complete I might add) and the Kokand government proper did not sign.

A war in which you lost a mere two ageing vessels. You had been barely scratched by the proceedings. Your assertion that losing half a dozen out-of date warships rendered you unable to provide sufficient security is unbelievable.

I suggest you read up on naval strategy. While we lost few vessels we were forced to deploy them across our nations to protect our people and planets. Our forces were tied down with other duties as a result of your war. We could not spare the ships; not because they were destroyed but because they were quite busy.

Never the less, you were supplanting a former government- a tumultous procedure.

It is indeed. One of the reasons such a thing happened.