EA: Gears Of War Lacks Innovation

Count Dooku · Post by **Count Dooku** » 2006-11-11 03:02pm

mizuno wrote:I agree that Gears of War isn't the most innovative game and the plot isn't exactly memorable.. but I ask so what? Its gameplay is some of the most polished and rewarding experiences I've had in years and imo that trumps everything. Zany new gametypes and plot heavy Japaneses rpgs/cg movies with spiky-haired male protagonists are fun once in a while, but most of my favorite games of all times are refined and polished version of game types that have been around forever.

When I replay a game for the 5th time, it is for the gameplay and not the story

Exactly. After playing games for years (like MANY of us have), it's really hard to find a game that does anything innovative at all. Most older guys (18 and up) know that Gears isn't anything new, but those of us who've played it know that it's a blast to play, and when it comes down to it, that's what really counts.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-11-11 05:22pm

salm wrote:I havent´t played it but from the trailers and video reviews it looks like really fun game.
Its basic mechanics sure have been around for a while but so what?
The camera is amazing the covering action seems to be quite cool and i like the gore level. The multiplayer function seems nice, too.

I don´t like the main character. He´s one of those typical American clichee tough guys. Now don´t get me wrong i´m not saying that i don´t like good clichees i just don´t like this one.

If you haven't played the game, how would you know what the character's like? Especially since the trailers portray him as a human with emotions, not some berserker warrior.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-11-11 05:30pm

Actually, the gore level is part of what takes me out of the game when I look at those gameplay videos. You can accept Master Chief getting hit dozens of times in Halo because he's got shields. But when you're following your main character around and you literally see blood spurting out the side of his head, and it doesn't even seem to slow him down, you start getting the impression that this is an Airsoft battle, not a real live gunfight.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2006-11-11 05:31pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote: If you haven't played the game, how would you know what the character's like?

I can obviously see what the character is like from the vast amount of trailers that float around out there. Of course the possibility that his character changes greatly during the game is there, but i doubt that.

Especially since the trailers portray him as a human with emotions, not some berserker warrior.

I never said that he was some berserker warrior with no emotions. I have no problems with berserkers.

It´s a bit hard to explain. It´s this typical American guy on a mission, completely determined and focused, taking himself way too seriously. Nicolas Cage acts like that in some movies.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-11 07:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, the gore level is part of what takes me out of the game when I look at those gameplay videos. You can accept Master Chief getting hit dozens of times in Halo because he's got shields. But when you're following your main character around and you literally see blood spurting out the side of his head, and it doesn't even seem to slow him down, you start getting the impression that this is an Airsoft battle, not a real live gunfight.

Until game mechanics and sensors are vastly improved, the small number of hit points and damage animations will make this a recurring thing. It's annoying when you hit a guy's hand or foot and nothing happens bar a spurt of blood and the guy keeps on moving. If they improved on the Soldier of Fortune or RE4 systems, they'd be far more realistic.

Realism, one finds, is not the stuff of FPS players' dreams.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-11 08:07pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Realism, one finds, is not the stuff of FPS players' dreams.

Actually, there's a whole genre of more-or-less realistic shooters. Saying Halo-esque 'survive rockets to the chest' is standard and there's no demand for more realism is garbage. Played SWAT 4 lately?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-11-11 08:57pm

salm wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote: If you haven't played the game, how would you know what the character's like?
I can obviously see what the character is like from the vast amount of trailers that float around out there.

You mean like his mournful expression when he sees that giant spider?

Of course the possibility that his character changes greatly during the game is there, but i doubt that.

You don't necessarily need massive character change to have an interesting character. I haven't played the game, but I don't like letting you run wild with your bitching about subjects you know next to nothing about just because it makes you feel good.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2006-11-11 09:21pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote: You don't necessarily need massive character change to have an interesting character.

Now you´re just strawmaning again.

I haven't played the game, but I don't like letting you run wild with your bitching about subjects you know next to nothing about just because it makes you feel good.

I know enough about this character to not like him. I don´t have to go through the entire game to get a sufficiently good impression of this character. The trailers are full of cutscenes in which he can be seen.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2006-11-11 09:28pm

Ghost Recon (the original game, not the following dumbed down travesties) was pretty realistic as far as FPS go.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-11-12 11:45am

It's not just Gears of War. Game graphics have grown by leaps and bounds in the last couple of years, yet the non-graphical parts have remained the same, and it's caused (at least for me) a growing sense of discordance. It's one thing to see a pixellated guy in Quake take a shotgun blast to the head and not die. It's quite another to see it happen in a game with extremely realistic graphics. Right now game developers should be focused on bringing their gameworlds to life and having realistic reactions and animations, because the better graphics get while those things stay the same, the less real the game is going to feel.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-11-12 12:51pm

Until game mechanics and sensors are vastly improved, the small number of hit points and damage animations will make this a recurring thing. It's annoying when you hit a guy's hand or foot and nothing happens bar a spurt of blood and the guy keeps on moving. If they improved on the Soldier of Fortune or RE4 systems, they'd be far more realistic.

Realism, one finds, is not the stuff of FPS players' dreams.

You mean a game where an enemy takes a shot to his hip, forcing him to limp away? One where he can't properly raise or aim his weapon because you've shot him in the shoulder? One where he'll drop his gun when you shoot his hand? One where he'll clutch an injured limb in agony for seconds before trying to find cover?

GoldenEye did that back in '97. Sure, it was a pretty simple system - 10 or so contact areas across the NPC's bodies, each triggering it's own animation and each having a different effect on the NPC's mobility for a limited amount of time - but I still miss it in today's shooters.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-12 02:01pm

Stark wrote: Actually, there's a whole genre of more-or-less realistic shooters. Saying Halo-esque 'survive rockets to the chest' is standard and there's no demand for more realism is garbage. Played SWAT 4 lately?

They're nowhere near as abundant as the mainstream shooters that rely on fun and totally brainless action with limited realism. Actually setting up a game in SWAT or Rainbow Six or a related sim takes time and effort. It's not like most FPS gamers care about tactics anyway, just 1337 bunnyhop and circling skills and an itchy trigger finger.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2006-11-12 06:21pm

Another reason I love gears.. no bunny-hopping.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-12 06:35pm

It always makes me laugh when people talk about flaws that have been solved in every shooter for years. Bunny hopping? Jesus, what even vaguely serious shooter lets you bunny hop these days?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-12 06:48pm

There are still games with flaws like that played today. Anything using the CS and DoD:S engine, for instance. Why bother with talking of new games when plenty of popular older ones are still about and played?

It still doesn't stop the circling problem either, unless you implement more realistic controls on the game, but that makes it less "fun" to many.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-12 06:53pm

Well YES, but frankly anyone who plays CS or DoD knows what they're getting. A new game released does not mean 'wow, you can't bunny hop, this is amazing technology'. CS is just backward, and not even 'vaguely serious'.

Call me nuts, but games solve the circling problem by reducing movement speed from 'worlds fastest sprinter, even sideways or backward' and implementing accuracy penalties for firing when moving. Even shit games like FEAR did that. It's not my fault everyone's perception of shooters is stuck in 1999.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-12 07:07pm

I'm still stuck in 99, but stuck playing Rainbow Six...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-12 07:09pm

weemadando wrote:I'm still stuck in 99, but stuck playing Rainbow Six...

With the psychic insta-headshot-over-their-shoulder terrorists?

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-12 11:13pm

Yeah, but that's a problem in any Red Storm game. Especially Ghost Recon (goddamn BVR makarov PM kills). Though less so in GR:AW because you appear to have body armour that can stop sustained .50cal fire.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-11-12 11:25pm

Such a more elegant solution than correctly modelling terrorists as being somewhat less skillful than a Grammaton Cleric.

Especially when they're hitting you directly between the eyes from the other end of a fucking cargo ship, are holding a fucking micro-uzi, and they're goddamn Japanese Greenies.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-12 11:29pm

It was made even better by the fabulous 'Tim got shot going round the corner, let's all go round the corner' team AI. One disgruntled office clerk with his back turned can wipe out your whole team without reloading.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-13 12:13am

Vympel wrote:Such a more elegant solution than correctly modelling terrorists as being somewhat less skillful than a Grammaton Cleric.

Especially when they're hitting you directly between the eyes from the other end of a fucking cargo ship, are holding a fucking micro-uzi, and they're goddamn Japanese Greenies.

Like I said. BVR kills with a Makarov.

I hate how fucking developers rather than working on coding decent tactical AI simply rely on fucking aimbot cheap tricks to make it feel "real".

It was one reason I did kinda like GR:AW on the PC. Most fire from both you and your men as well as the enemy didn't hit shit except cover, but it served to pin them down.

Still, if I want good AI for my soldiers I'll play Flashpoint.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-13 12:18am

Stark wrote:It was made even better by the fabulous 'Tim got shot going round the corner, let's all go round the corner' team AI. One disgruntled office clerk with his back turned can wipe out your whole team without reloading. :)

GAH! Or the fucking Raven Shield AI that was a step back (actually a step back off a large ledge with a fall and impact that left them brainded) from the previous versions. Rather than stacking up on a door and actually assaulting, we get:

Leader: "Open, flash and clear!"
Moron: "Roger!"
Moron: *steps up to door with weapon out, opens door while standing DEAD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HUGE DEATH SILHOULLETE MAKER and proceeds to start to change weapons to pull out a flashbang. Gets shot. Next moron immediately steps into the same fucking place and squares their feet, assumes the position and briefly contemplates pulling out a flashbang before ALSO GETTING FUCKING SHOT... Continue ad nauseum until there are no team members left*

Lets compare this to the original R6 or Rogue Spear AI. One man opens the door, and the other tosses an already prepared 'nade. If a third or fourth are present, they're stacked and providing cover.

Hell. Look at how well SWAT3 and SWAT4 did it. Red Storm are lazy fuckers who are trading on the strength of a license which they are now content to crush under their horrible purulent lazy arses.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-11-13 12:46am

weemadando wrote: Still, if I want good AI for my soldiers I'll play Flashpoint.

There's a sequel, of sorts, out in Europe right now. It's expected to be out sometime in 2007 elsewhere.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-13 02:25am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
weemadando wrote: Still, if I want good AI for my soldiers I'll play Flashpoint.
There's a sequel, of sorts, out in Europe right now. It's expected to be out sometime in 2007 elsewhere.

Armed Assault has hit the shelves!!?!? Or are you talking about VBS?

Or worse, about the XBox version: Flashpoint Elite.